Rebel Deception, brilliant modding guys!

**Bluice** · August 23, 2011, 10:55 PM

Hi all,

Last night I was playing as France, it came to turn 6-7ish (1106AD). I had spent the last few turns watching the rebel settlements grow in size (btw great idea to make the rebels more active). I was choosing out of the many adjacent rebel settlements to France which ones I will attack first.

After toggling FOW (yeah I know cheater but it helps so much) I noticed out of no where that all rebel settlements on the map that each one only had one unit in the settlements...

At first I thought bloody bug or something but I will take advantage of it and sweep through and take all of them over the next 2-3 turns. I placed very small armies to siege the settlements (so I can get max benefits when I win to the generals). Clicked end turn and awaited the next turn where I was going to sweep through and take all these settlements with ease.

Wow was I wrong, I sent all my generals to settlements with minimal forces and guess what happened!

ALL of the rebel settlements had left their generals in the town as bait and hid their huge armies (btw I love how the rebels function more like factions now) in the forests close by. Then I watched as these huge armies caught all my generals off guard and backed me into a corner.

Naturally I retreated after getting mauled, and the rebel even pursued me right to their borderline but did not proceed into French territory.

The Stainless Steel team thanks so much for a challenge, that would have to be the first time I have been decimated by the AI and had to retreat with my tail between my legs.

**Ichon** · August 23, 2011, 10:59 PM

Well it is nice to see someone surprised by this but actually its not always great for the AI to do this. Since you can siege assault in 1 turn with spies or any artillery and take those cities with the ease you anticipated. Though of course the AI will usually lay siege the following turn if you have a tiny army... but- in sieges tiny armies can often win.

**Bluice** · August 23, 2011, 11:04 PM

Not to mention it will probably throw off the AI controlled factions over and over again. I am concerned now that the rebels will never be taken and the factions will not wage war with each other because they are too concerned with taking the rebel settlements.

I don't think the AI will plan for an ambush or a hidden army in the forest, will bring insufficient forces and constantly get beaten back, please tell me I am jumping the gun.

Just out of curiousity was this hard to implement into the coding?

**ihranator** · August 23, 2011, 11:45 PM

If I recall, they did this in vanilla too, only it was on turn 3.

**Bluice** · August 23, 2011, 11:48 PM

Unless I was playing a different game I don't remember it the rebel settlements never recruited more units and most defintely did not leave the confines of their walls.

**Lifthrasir** · August 24, 2011, 08:02 AM

I've never seen that either in Vanilla game. Same remark regarding the size of the Rebel stacks. In Vanilla they were the same.
In SS, I've seen this kind of Ambush several times and I have noticed that Rebels can increase the size of their stacks as long they keep the settlement. Once you take the settlement, if there's a Rebel army in that territory, its size doesn't change.
I've been myself surprised several times while playing Early Era during the first turns which means no artillery available.

**Caesar Clivus** · August 24, 2011, 08:11 AM

The Rebels are much more active in SS than in vanilla. Enjoy

**Gogolometro** · August 24, 2011, 02:24 PM

And rebels siege and atack cities. Thats lovely!

**Ichon** · August 24, 2011, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Gogolometro

And rebels siege and atack cities. Thats lovely!

Is this with some patch? I've never seen it. I've played one 6.4 completely and about halfway thru 2 more and not seen this. Maybe due to playing on late campaign- there aren't as many rebels. Still I'd thought to have noticed something like this or heard other comments on it.

**Caesar Clivus** · August 24, 2011, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Ichon

Is this with some patch? I've never seen it. I've played one 6.4 completely and about halfway thru 2 more and not seen this. Maybe due to playing on late campaign- there aren't as many rebels. Still I'd thought to have noticed something like this or heard other comments on it.

I've had a rebel army besiege Novgorod. Took me by surprise that's for sure

**Pyres Δt Varanasi** · August 24, 2011, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by Caesar Clivus

I've had a rebel army besiege Novgorod. Took me by surprise that's for sure

Same happen to me

**Ferdiad** · August 24, 2011, 03:53 PM

Ya but still Rebels are a Pushover and dont stop expansion that much, they need to be buffed like getting double starting units with more chevrons.

**Bluice** · August 24, 2011, 06:29 PM

I would assume it would have to be an early campaign due the amont of rebels in early campaign, I hate starting in late campaigns anyway, you don't get the chance to mould the empire the way you want. The only plus is you get to be the Teutonic Order

**Pyres Δt Varanasi** · August 24, 2011, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Bluice

I would assume it would have to be an early campaign due the amont of rebels in early campaign, I hate starting in late campaigns anyway, you don't get the chance to mould the empire the way you want. The only plus is you get to be the Teutonic Order

And the Golden Horde (Mongols)

**Bluice** · August 24, 2011, 09:42 PM

Its a shame that we can't get emergent factions like in ETW on SS.64

I love the fact that new faction can possibly pop up from overthrown settlements.

And having diplomacy indicators like ETW showing exactly why the factions is angry or happy with you, they stole this off Civilization, it makes diplomacy alot more rewarding when you know why they are annoyed and how to fix it.

Eg. + 10 National leaders command respect etc

Question: Is it common for the rebels to come after you and attack your city, I haven't actually seen this yet but the fact that they even went after Novgorod (not a little petty settlement) shows balls on behalf of the AI?

**Lifthrasir** · August 25, 2011, 02:39 AM

I remember to have seen that a few times with a previous version of SS (can't remeber which one) but never so far with SS6.4. I guess the rebels need a full stack and the settlement has to be empty (1 or 2 units left)

But what I've seen quite often is a rebel stack trying to force you to engage them on a disadvantageous location for you like on a bridge for instance. I remember once having a rebel stack standing on a bridge for a while and I had to send 2 stacks (one on each side) to get ride of them.

**Bluice** · August 25, 2011, 06:15 PM

Sounds like the rebels are improvising to much for an AI, could all this stuff end up being co-incidences or could the rebels really have improved this much to be able to plan advantageous positions to fight from, hide in forests using single units as bait and cross the border and come into our territories to conquer us???

**popovic** · August 25, 2011, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by Bluice

Sounds like the rebels are improvising to much for an AI, could all this stuff end up being co-incidences or could the rebels really have improved this much to be able to plan advantageous positions to fight from, hide in forests using single units as bait and cross the border and come into our territories to conquer us???

It`s a coincidence.