Genovese Crossbow's overrated?

[.L.]

Are they? Everyone always talks about how awesome they are but in every battle I fought with them they always lost to my longbowmen, not yeoman archers or retinue longbowmen, but plain old first level trained longbowmen.

[13lackGu4rd]

not trying to be a dick or something but no kidding sherlock? Crossbowmen in general are superb vs armor, regular archers in general are superb against lightly armored troops. Genoese Crossbowmen are more heavily armored than other Crossbowmen but it's still medium armor at most. Longbowmen are lightly armored so the bonus vs armor doesn't do anything. so you got a higher range faster firing Longbowmen against shorter range slower firing Crossbowmen, isn't the outcome obvious? try using your Longbowmen against Feudal Knights and above, than try Genoese Crossbowmen against the same target. than you'll see a massive difference in favor of the Genoese Crossbowmen.

[Kabeloko]

not trying to be a dick or something but no kidding sherlock? Crossbowmen in general are superb vs armor, regular archers in general are superb against lightly armored troops. Genoese Crossbowmen are more heavily armored than other Crossbowmen but it's still medium armor at most. Longbowmen are lightly armored so the bonus vs armor doesn't do anything. so you got a higher range faster firing Longbowmen against shorter range slower firing Crossbowmen, isn't the outcome obvious? try using your Longbowmen against Feudal Knights and above, than try Genoese Crossbowmen against the same target. than you'll see a massive difference in favor of the Genoese Crossbowmen.

plus, testing on the AI doesnt help... even on very hard...

[ChivalrousKiller]

Everyone talks about how awesome longbowmen are as well

But I guess it depends on different opinions. I, for one, prefer normal archers to crossbowmen.

[ccgr1121]

In my experience, longbows will basically destroy crossbows due to their faster rate of fire and longer range. Also, I am assuming you are playing against the AI, so basic tactics like run-round-the-back-to-cripple-morale usually destroys them.

However, crossbowmen are anti-infantry. If you need to take out archers, use cavalry.

[.L.]

Which get impaled. Black guard I actually find longbows better in that regard, they are also "effective against armor" but they fire faster have greater range, and are some of the most accurate troops in the game, plus I LOVE their stakes, just place layers of them behind a bridge and those french knights get impales and all the infantry can be taken out by the archers and whats left will be pitiful bunch that even basic spearmen can handle.

[Double A]

Crossbowmen have an abysmal rate of fire compared to archers, and longbows have AP. Combined, they form Captain Planet a healthy dose of whupass. The crossbow is the poor man's longbow, even if you strap a big shield on the smelly hobo's back.

Which get impaled. Black guard I actually find longbows better in that regard, they are also "effective against armor" but they fire faster have greater range, and are some of the most accurate troops in the game, plus I LOVE their stakes, just place layers of them behind a bridge and those french knights get impales and all the infantry can be taken out by the archers and whats left will be pitiful bunch that even basic spearmen can handle.

Dude, his name is 13lackGu4rd. I don't see a "b," a space, or a second "a."

[.L.]

Even when I tested with my friend, open plain equal numbers shooting match, I still came out victorious.

[Scotius]

Are mongol bows armour piercing in this game?

The draw on a crossbow//longbow is 150 lbs but the draw on a mongol bow is 180 lbs

[.L.]

Dude the mongol bows were usually around 150 but the longbows were usually close to 200 Howard Hill used a 190 pound bow and the ones found on the Mary Rose had 100 but they were underwater for a really long time which ed them up

[Nanaki404]

Longbowmen are overrated :p

Why genoese crossbow militia are cool :
- They are recruited in cities
- They are militia (free upkeep in cities)
- They have about the same recruitment cost as longbowmen (570 vs 560) but their upkeep is only 100 (150 for longbowmen).
- They have more armor (6+3+6 vs 0+1+3)
- Their bolts are more powerful (according to stats)

Why longbowmen are cool :
- Stakes. (enough said)
- Flamming arrows
- They shoot faster and (not sure) with more accuracy.
- They are slightly more powerful in close combat (7 AP vs 6)



So genoese crossbow militia might be slightly less efficient than longbowmen, but they are better economically because they are militia (free upkeep), recruited from cities (no need to have castles --> better economy), and have 2/3 of the longbowmen upkeep. And their armor boost make them a bit more resistant, so you might have less guys to retrain.

[Silverheart]

Genoese Crossbowmen are not overrated in my opinion - I hate fighting armies that have them, but I can´t let my generals handle it, because they always suffer ridiculous casualties.
They are tough, hardy and powerful, and almost impossible to take out swiftly, as you would prefer to do with the enemys´ missiles.

I´ve seen Generals Bodyguards charge straight into them from any angle, and they always stand their ground impressively - seriously, the only thing that works is to charge again and again until there´s not enough of them left to halt your cavalry, or use bowmen en masse.

[.L.]

equal numbers seem to work well though , sometime it works even when they're outnumbered.
What do you play as?

[Le Songeur]

Does anyone know whether or not a crossbow was more powerful that an eastern composite bow.

[Rowdytavern]

Long bowmen are better in custom games, Genoese crossbowmen are better for the Campagin

[tudor93]

Long bowmen are better in custom games, Genoese crossbowmen are better for the Campagin

can you please be more explicit ?

[Double A]

can you please be more explicit ?

If the crossbowmen get wiped out by a cavalry charge, no tears will be shed.

[Nanaki404]

can you please be more explicit ?

Longbowmen are slightly better in combat, but genoese crossbow militia are much better economically :
- recruitable in cities
- cheaper upkeep
- militia => free upkeep in cities.

Obviously, the economic advantage is useless in custom battles, but very important in campaign.

[tudor93]

Longbowmen are slightly better in combat, but genoese crossbow militia are much better economically :
- recruitable in cities
- cheaper upkeep
- militia => free upkeep in cities.

Obviously, the economic advantage is useless in custom battles, but very important in campaign.

don't know 'bout you, but in every campaign I build carefully the most important buildings (military & economic buildings to have both) and I always have a crap load of gold ...
so, in RTW and M2TW campaigns (can't say about NTW/ETW/S2TW because I never played them) you can't say a unit is better than another one comparing the recruitment cost and upkeep because you simply have a crap load of gold and it really doesn't matter if one is 500 to recruit and one is 800

[PrestigeX]

THe Pavise Crossbows are all good, the main advantage they have is against very heavily armored opponents. A volley against Heavy Cavalry, particularly when they're close, can devaste their ranks and then your troops can just charge right in! the Pavise Xbows have good armor stats for missile troops and don't root or die as fast as others , so they are more durable in the long run and less sensitive. Withount their stakes, long bow troops are easy prey for cavalry.

Stakes are okay, most of hte time I find it more of a hinderance to my own cavalry (AI in my mod is much improved, whatever Darth did, it works!) and it's only good when you have a defendable position.


A big advantage of the powerful punch, but slow reload of the Crossbow troops is this.. . In battles where you are greatly outnumbered, your Pavise Xbows generally always have extra ammo to spare. Longbows, because they fire faster always run out by the end... NOw, this is a good thing when fighting a 1 vs 1 head on battle, but when you have say... 1 foe, then a 2nd large reinforcement enemy, and a 3rd small force of enemy from a random direction, you want those men able to run and re position and fire at the fresh troops.


For me the best is Dual missile troops.. Sicily or Venice -- Xbows and Good Archers (venetian archers / muslim archers)