Faerûn[Forgotten Realms]TW - v0.2 released, check the first post

[vercassivelaunos]

What problems do you have with unit coding? Maybe I could help there a bit, too.

[Vladyvid]

What problems do you have with unit coding? Maybe I could help there a bit, too.

I don't really know how to for example assign unit from faction to another. I can do new textures that would fit the target faction but then to code it all nicely in unit_descr or whatever the proper file would be, is not clear for me. I tried a few times but got irritated and just continue with others things that I can do.

Now about the faction selection, or the initial factions. I think it's a good time to discuss which of the groups or nations should be first included. So here my suggestion. Note that the vanilla factions and faerun factions are listed for number correspondence, not to say which vanilla faction is going to be which fearun faction.

When we decide all factions I will be able to finish their icons and flags and will add them all to the campaign.

normal font = open for debate
blue font = faction confirmed

01 Sembia / england
02 Cormyr / france
03 Tethyr / hre
04 Amn / spain
05 Calimshan / venice
06 Haalrua / sicily
07 Thay / milan
08 Great Rift / scotland
09 Waterdeep / byzantium
10 Baldur's Gate / russia
11 Luskan / moors
12 Many-Arrows / turks
13 Silver Marches / egypt
14 Neverwinter / denmark
15 Aglarond / portugal
16 Rashemen / poland
17 Zhentarim / hungary
18 Elturgard / papal_states
19 Banehold / aztecs
20 Shadovar / mongols
21 Damara or any barbarian faction from north-east/ timurids
22 rebels / slave
23 Mulhorand / saxons
24 Unther / normans

I was able to add both saxons and normans to vanilla m2tw so I assume we can have those two slots in the initial faction setup.

With that number of factions there is some problems because we don't get enough factions in the south and south-central part of the map, and most factions are based in the west.

The Lords' Alliance Dillema
My solution would be to have the Lords' Alliance faction replacing some or all of these factions: Baldur's Gate, Waterdeep, Neverwinter, Silver Marches. I know that the first three cities, or city-states were all very rich, powerful and influential factions, with more than 100,000 citizens within each of these cities walls (IIRC). They were all different but were part of the alliance, and to my knowledge did not wage wars against eachother. There was rivalry but it was for mercantile, economic and cultural supremacy in the region; militarily they sticked together against various evil threats.

From all these 4 factions I think the Silver Marches would be easiest to let go, as they are a confederation of even smaller factions themselves. But if we decided to merge the three coastal city states into the Lords' Alliance and remove Silver Marches, we would then gain 3 faction slots to pretty much deal with the lack of factions in other parts of the campaign map.

So what do yous think?

[vercassivelaunos]

I'd prefer those cities at the sword coast to be one faction. As a player I'd want to control the whole coast, but at the same time I'd want to stick to lore, which could not be done at the same time, if those cities were all factions of their own.
And I would include Luskan from the beginning.
To enable a unit for another faction, you have to edit the battle_models.modeldb, and the descr_unit. It's not that hard. I could do that, when we will be at that point.

[Tsarsies]

I like the sound of this mod and its one I will keep an eye on. The setting you have chosen screams 'role-play', and therefore I imagine a heavily scripted mod to best represent the universe you are after. I would definitely be interested in helping you with the kind of scripts u would need to really bring Faerun to life in a total war setting. I would like to point out that the less regions and factions you have the more heavily you can script a mod. I am currently working on a mod of my own which has some very unique scripting ideas/elements that would require hundreds of thousands of lines of code for any mod with more than 20 factions (my mod will have no more than 12)... But, with that said, it depends what you want to do, how you want to do it, and what (if anything) you are willing to sacrifice to get it to appear/happen in game...

But I would be interested in jumping on board because the world ur trying to create will require some fun and innovative scripting - which I'm all into

I realize you are a ways from scripting but when u get some ideas shoot me a line and ill let u know how easy/difficult something will be to implement through script.

Cheers!

[Clansman117]

I think it goes without saying that I'll help research. I think having Waterdeep, Neverwinter, and Baldur's Gate as the Lord's Alliance and the Silver Marches as its own faction might be the best idea, as the three factions would be both very close (politically) and have similar cultures, while the Silver Marches is rather different as it is an alliance of human and dwarf settlements with a city that has pretty much all the "good" races and has no connection to the sea.

[Vladyvid]

Hey cheers for the offer Tsarsies! When we get to that part, I'll PM you about something script related.

Another small update of my progress. I have some faction symbols working on the campaign map, Cormyr example:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Worked on some faction symbols, from left to right Mulhorand, Banehold (I like this hand better than before) and Zhentarim (also using other symbols but the one with this skull seems the most sinister to me)


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

And a bit of explanation for Mulhorand, its symbol of egyptian god Ptah who is also the main god of the Mulhorandi pantheon. The colours are my own idea, the symbol should most probably be blue or blueish (sp?) and background, well I chose variation of golden, kinda orange hmm. This can be altered but I believe the Ptah symbol is good for this faction. It's the symbol of the shaft of Ptah to be exact, so a magical item.

[MedievalDragoon]

suggested changes in red.

normal font = open for debate
blue font = faction confirmed

01 Sembia / england
02 Cormyr / france
03 Tethyr / hre
04 Amn / spain
05 Calimshan / venice
06 Haalrua / sicily
07 Thay / milan
08 Great Rift / scotland
09 Waterdeep / byzantium
10 Baldur's Gate / moors
11 Luskan / denmark
12 Many-Arrows / turks
13 Silver Marches / egypt
14 Neverwinter / russia
15 Aglarond / portugal
16 Rashemen / poland
17 Zhentarim / hungary
18 Elturgard / papal_states
19 Banehold / aztecs
20 Shadovar / mongols
21 Damara or any barbarian faction from north-east/ timurids
22 rebels / slave
23 Mulhorand / saxons
24 Unther / normans

I think that Lusken was more like the Danes then Neverwinter. They have longboats and dragon-ships and they got involved with several conflicts with Ryuthym, an Island Kingdom.

The city was also ruled by pirate lords for a time, and is constantly at odds with the other minor city states around them, but at the same time continues to trade with the big one's like Waterdeep.

Also, I think russia fits Neverwinter better.

Just a couple suggestions.


P.S. Did I read that post wrong and just look like a complete idiot?

[Vladyvid]

think that Lusken was more like the Danes then Neverwinter. They have longboats and dragon-ships and they got involved with several conflicts with Ryuthym, an Island Kingdom.

The city was also ruled by pirate lords for a time, and is constantly at odds with the other minor city states around them, but at the same time continues to trade with the big one's like Waterdeep.

Also, I think russia fits Neverwinter better.

About Luskan, yes it is similar to danes or some viking faction in some ways. The Neverwinter being like russia I am not sure exactly what you mean. For this moment Neverwinter is replaced by Lords' Alliance (that Neverwinter is a member of).

About Silver Marches, I agree would be interesting to include them and probably going by the name Luruar, as the Silver Marches is collective name but the land is called Luruar. They would be an interesting faction because they are a mix of humans, elves and dwarfs.

Elvish factions
For the initial campaign I think we can consider to not include any specifically elvish nation. Reason for it would be the political role of the elvish-ruled realms in that time. The elves still inhabited some woods, or Evereska, but mostly trying to conceive their cities from the humans and other races. They don't seem to fit the total war idea.
We could still have some 'rebel' elves to keep the forests elvish.

!!! - check the first post for updated faction list

I think things to do at the moment:

1. Finish factions selection
2. Decide factions symbols
3. Finish the map (as far as geography and region-faction placement)
4. Add new factions symbols in game (strat, battle, ui, etc.)

I think this all can be done rather soon, maybe within a week.

[Vladyvid]

Hi!

I'm sitting at work now with a bit of free time so I thought I could look into the factions which are not yet confirmed and see what options we may have.

As I checked, we have 5 slots undecided, or not yet fully confirmed. There is ofcourse many more factions that could possibly be included, but I believe we should focus on the most prominent ones - lore and gameplay.

Chondath - human kingdom which used to be a powerful empire in the south, placed between Mulhorand and Calimshan, with Great Rift to the south and Turmish to the north. They are not some crucial faction but my idea for having them would mostly be for the reason of keeping southern factions busy not only with rebels.

Turmish - human kingdom on the coat of the Sea of Fallen Stars, with Chondath to the south and Sembia to the north. I have not much information about them but they had a quite sizable population of over 1 million people. That's the main reason for me to put them on the possible factions list. Your opinions would be welcome to discuss this faction.

Aglarond - magocratic country on the peninsula west from Thay, they are neighbours of Thesk (to the north) and that's basicly it. The main reason I included this faction is for Thay to be surrounded with other factions, and because Aglarond is said to have a rather significant population. Still, I don't think they are in any way crucial and would like to see what others think.

Damara - northern human kingdom, barbaric to certain extend. Could be an interesting faction, being different from most other 'knightly' human factions, and because it is located in the area of map which doesn't have too many factions yet. Their closest neighbours would be the Zhentarim to the west, small human city states to the south and mostly barbarians lands to the east.

Unther - a large country and a nation in the south, neighbour and everlasting enemy of Mulhorand. They are on the decline in this time period and Mulhorandi were able to conquer all of Unther, I think in 1370s or even earlier. So for that reason, we might not want to include them and instead use this slot for a more prominent faction. I am curious what do our researchers think?

Lapaliiya - my new discovery , they are a faction based in the tropical regions in south-west. Also known as The Lapa League, Cities of the Seabreeze, it is a monarchic confederation of human states ruled by Overking. Bordering Haalrua to the east, Chult to the west and Calimshan to the north. I believe someone before mentioned the state of Tashalar - which is part of the Lapaliiya. In my opinion having them in the campaign would add to the gameplay in the south of Faerun.

Dalelands - not sure this name would be proper, because the dales were to my knowledge rather independent from one another. They cover the area between Cormyr and Sembia to the south and Zhentarim to the north. On one hand including the dales seems a necessity, on the other hand they are a collection of mostly city-states. I'm not sure what to do with this part of the map, help of our researchers is required.

Dambrath - faction different than any other, where the rulling elite is half-drow and feministic. Ruled only by women. Most of the population is human, barbaric humans I believe. They used to raid Haalrua or Luiren (hobbit land), in the times of this mod Dambrath is on the decline and my overall impression of this faction is nothing particularly special. Anyway we should discuss them too, before the final selection is made.

If anyone has other faction ideas, please post them because I would like to close the initial faction selection within next couple of days.

[vercassivelaunos]

The Cormyr symbol on the map looks nice. And I like the symbol for Thay.
About the factions:
If you see your map


you'll see that the sword coast an the surrounding regions have enough factions. In the south, Amn, Teyhyr and Calimshan are good. Yhay, Rashemen and Mulhorand are enough in the east for the beginning.
But Haalrua and the Great Rift are too alone. So I would recommend to add Lapaliiya, and maybe even Chult, though you didn'list it. Chult would stop Amn from expanding too much in the south. And I would add Damara. People always play with "special" factions. That's the reason why the hre and byzantium are the favourite vanilla factions of the community. Damara would be special, if you are right.

btw: When I saw that captain of Cormyr, I saw that the vanilla model doesn't fit. Maybe I could modify it a bit for you a bit. But don't expect much. The only thing I can do is moving some of the vectors, so I can't add much detail.

[Vladyvid]

btw: When I saw that captain of Cormyr, I saw that the vanilla model doesn't fit. Maybe I could modify it a bit for you a bit. But don't expect much. The only thing I can do is moving some of the vectors, so I can't add much detail.

I think don't bother with that. I will change the textures (its english faction so english textures) for the captains and other campaign characters and that should do it (at least for the time being). Cormyr is one of the factions which are similar to medieval western european nations, so I think changing models for campaign characters is not that important.

[Vladyvid]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

From left to right Lord's Alliance, Great Rift and Shadovar.
The Lords' Alliance symbol and colours are according to the lore, the other two are more or less my ideas.

Would be good for our researchers to make some comments about accuracy of the symbols we\ve got so far. I still can't find any good information about coats of arms for Tethyr, Amn or Calimshan to name only some.

I also thought about the last 5 slots, and at this point I would decide them to be: Turmish, Chondath, Damara, Lapaliiya and the Dalelands. Chult can't be really a faction because their people are too primitive and unorganised. They are jungle tribes, similar to natives of the Amazon jungle in their lifestyle. Chult could have one amnish and perhaps one lords' alliance colony, as Amn and Baldurans built their ports on the coast. Or it would be entirely rebel land.

I hope the guys doing their researching will come back with some useful info.

[vercassivelaunos]

The symbols look fine. But it might look better, if you had the border of the shield in the same colour for every faction. Maybe like that of the Zentharim.

[Derpy Hooves]

Huzzah, a Faerun idea that is making progress. I would tap my hat off to you sir if I had a hat but instead I shall rep you. I look forward to this mod's release.

[Vladyvid]

The symbols look fine. But it might look better, if you had the border of the shield in the same colour for every faction. Maybe like that of the Zentharim.

Yes I'm working on the border idea.

Huzzah, a Faerun idea that is making progress. I would tap my hat off to you sir if I had a hat but instead I shall rep you. I look forward to this mod's release.

Thank you for the support. I'm not sure what does that rep do but thank you I guess it's some cool thing.

I wanted to ask something but I forgot...

[vercassivelaunos]

Look at this map. On this one, Chult is an island, but on yours it is connected to the main land. Is yours an earlier one, and some lands sank?

btw: the map is huge, isn't it

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[MedievalDragoon]

That Map is post-spell plague, Otherwise Halruaa wouldn't look like so much burnt toast.
That being said, I think that the land between Chult and the mainland is supposed to be a bunch of sandbars that get covered at high tide judging by this map.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._political.jpg

[Vladyvid]

Look at this map. On this one, Chult is an island, but on yours it is connected to the main land. Is yours an earlier one, and some lands sank?

This map, as MedievalDragoon says, is post-spellplague. The spellplague was a huge cataclysm lasting for about a decade that transformed many lands in Faerun, meaning some were sunk etc. The map I made for this mod is pre-spellplague and then Chult is not an island just yet.

FR wiki:

The Spellplague is a malady that struck Realmspace on 29th Tarsakh, 1385 DR and was caused by Mystra's assassination at the hands of Cyric and Shar. With the goddess's death, the Weave, the universal structure of arcane forces, convulsed.[1] It continued for a decade, leading to the Wailing Years, during which time arcane magic ceased to function and the planet of Toril was transformed.

Starting this mod in 1358 DR, we alter the chain of events because we can't include the Spellplague as it supposed to happen. We could maybe just create many consecutive normal plague events during that time or somthing like that.

My map is based on this: (it's very big)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

BTW I wanted to ask that before: how do I add a signature to my profile? I'm browsing my account's options and can't find it.

[MedievalDragoon]

Nice map! I think that is the official one, i.e. the original detailed map made by the game world's creators.

[Clansman117]

Hello I ha... wait a... (sees 4th edition map) Nooo! Not the spellplague! Die 4th edition! You Shall Not Enter! Sorry for that but I hate what they did to Faerun in 4th edition. Anyway back to what I was going to say...
I've compilied some small descriptions of the factions you asked about.

Chondath was once a powerful Empire built on trade which ruled many lands around the Sea of Fallen Stars, from Sembia to all of the Vilhon Reach. Their power would first be weakened in their wars against the elves of Cormanthor, which would take their northern holdings. The Empire then fell from the Rotting War, a war between three of the most powerful Chondath cities that ended when a magical plaugue was released, killing the best of Chondath's mercenaries. Now Chondath is a loose collection of city-states "ruled" by Arrabar, although many city-states are held by independent lords who scoff at the decrees sent by "Shining Arrabor". It is, however, still a land of trade and mercenaries, with a leader who is determined to rebuild their glory.

Turmish is a land of villages and is famous on the Inner Sea for its fertile fields, fair trade, square beards, and ornate armor. It was controlled by a blue dragon for five years, until his death in 1247. After the dragons death, Turmish was formed into a republic by the dragon's slayer, the paladin Corwin Freas. Now Turmish warriors keep their land safe and are wary of Chondath's growing power.

Algarond is hailed as the nation that keeps the Red Wizards of Thay from attacking the rest of Faerun. Ruled by the immortal Chosen of Mystra known as the Simbul, it is a land of ancient magic and many of its inhabitants are half-elves. Despite this, most of its people are simple fishermen and herders who despise magic, saying that in all but a few rare people of great goodness, like their rulers, it is a corrupting force. The Simbul is both respected by the commoners for keeping them safe from Thay, and feared for her power and impetuous nature.

Damara was once a powerful land which was made rich off of trade for the rare bloodstone. When the armies of giants, orcs, and gnolls of the Witch-King of Vaasa invaded, Damara fell. When the Witch-King fell, Gareth Dragonsbane, one of those who defeated the Witch-King, united the nobles and reclaimed Damara. Now Damara is a land of hardy people who are rebuilding their nation, with many turning to the worship of Ilmater. The return of the bloodstone trade and influx of adventurers have strengthened Damara, and its armies watch over the pass to Vaasa with vigilance from the powerful Gates.

Lapaliiya is an alliance of city-states along the southeast shore of the Shining Sea. It is a land of zealous warriors and industrious merchants who place great stock on personal honor and propriety, with duels commonplace. Each city in the Lapal League takes one diety as its own, preaching their way above all others, with Ilmater, Kelemvor, Selune, Talos, and Waukeen being chosen by the five largest
cities. Relations between citys often mirror those of their chosen dieties. (I couldn't find anything saying Tashalar was part of the Lapal League, but I only have 3rd edition, so maybe it happened after?)

Tashalar is an exotic land of beautiful people who love hunting and obsess over the future. Made up of united city-states that are ruled by powerful merchant families. Tashalar is known for it's skilled craftsmen and making the best wines in all of Faerun. Tashalar was formed when the empire of Tashtan, which ruled all of the center of the Chultan Peninsula, fell from wars with Calimshan and jungle plaugues, breaking up into smaller nations. The largest of these, was Tashalar.

The Dalelands is a loose alliance of the, currently, eleven dales. It was formed by a pact made between the human settlers and the elven land of Cormanthor. Although the Dalelands would unite to fight common foes, the Dales would fight each other many times. Because of their infighting, they lost one Dale, Teshendale, to the Zhentarim. Sembia is another threat, as long ago Moondale left the Dalelands and joined Sembia, and now Tasseldale might do the same.

Dambrath is a land ruled by the Critni, those with a mix of drow, human, and elf blood. It was formed when drow formed an alliance with elven worshipers of Loviator to conquer the primitive arkaiuns, cruel barbarians who make their living as herdsmen or fishermen and are skilled horsemen. Dambrath is a matriachal society due to women having more control in both drow society and the temples of Loviator.

Unther was a powerful empire ruled directly by their tyrannical god, Gilgeam. When Tiamat killed Gilgeam during the Time of Troubles, Unther was plunged into chaos, with many slaves revolting, Mulhorand invading, and the nobles and clerics desperately trying to keep their dominance. Now Unther is divided, with some refusing to fall to a foreign power and others looking at how the conquered are treated better by the Mulhorand than the Untherites had ever been and wondering if it would be better to be conquered.Its armies are made up of poorly trained and horribly equiped soldiers and the well-trained and equiped elites of the nobles and temples.

Out of these, I'd say Algarond, Turmish, Tashalar, Damara, and Chondath are the most important 5, although I think Dambrath would be a good idea as it would give Halruaa something to fight.

As I was researching, I noticed a problem with the start date, as the Silver Marches wasn't formed until 1371 and Damara wasn't a faction in this time until 1359. Also if we kept the timeland we should include the Tuigan Horde, mongol-like people who invaded northeast Faerun and forced Cormyr, Sembia, Zhentarim, Thesk, Impiltur, the Daleslands, and Rashemen to ally together to drive the tuigan back. I know 1358 was chosen for the time of troubles, but I'm not sure the Time of Troubles could give much for a TW game, as it seems most of it was gods fighting each other and a few mortal heroes, without any real battles between armies. I think 1372 would be a better start point as it would see the Silver Marches formed and fighting the orcs of Many Arrows, The return of Bane and the Zhentarim uified after years of being divided, Damara's rise, Mulhorand's invasion of Unther, the City of Shades appearing, Cormyr's rebuliding, a unified Tethyr, having Amn already discovered Maztica (happened in 1361), and the ogre invasion of southern Amn.

And I really like the symbol for the Lords' Alliance, but I'm curious why you chose a dragon for Shadovar's, and I like the Great Rift's, but it might make more sense for the symbol to be the hammer over the anvil symbol of Moradin, as he was very important to the Gold Dwarves. I'll get to work on looking for symbols for the garented factions now. And rep is the little gold rings/other symbols under your profile picture that are given by members for good work. It is basicaly a measure of accomplishment at TWC.