Who the hell are Koch Entertainment?

**Didz** · August 21, 2011, 06:53 AM

I've just been informed by YouTube of a possible licensing infraction on this video.

Your video, Didz Plays Prussia Part 8.wmv, may have content that is owned or licensed by Koch Entertainment.

I'm flumoxed......I know what music I've used and where I got it from.....and I know what images I've used and where I got them.....and as far as I can tell Koch Entertainment are not involved. In fact, its difficult to determine what Koch entertainment actually do. They seem to publish CD's and DVD's in North America, but I never used any CD's or DVD's as the source for my video. Some of their CD's seem to feature classical music but unless they are arbitarily targetting anyone who uses the same classical piece as they happened to publish on one of their CD's I can't see why they would assume that I had got my clip from one of their disks.

Apparently, another guy has had a similar complaint and he was playing the music himself on his own piano.

I mean if have inadvertently picked up a clip that originated on one of their CD's i could easily delete it and find the same music from elsewhere, but if they are merely targetting anyone who uses music similar to a track on one of their disks then I'll still get a complaint. Even if I played it myself

Anyone got a clue what they are getting stressy about?

The other weird thing is that as a consequence of this complaint my video has been blocked in Germany.

WHY GERMANY?

Koch Entertainment aren't German, accoding to linked in they are a North American company with offices in New York City, New Jersey, Boston, Minneapolis, Austin, and San Francisco. The German company ceased trading in 2005, and was bought up by E1 Entertainment.

Is it just because of the assumption that German music only gets bought by Germans or something, and therefore it doesn;t matter if other countries listen to it?

I mean how many classical composers were German for christ sake. It's ridiculous.

**GasMask** · August 21, 2011, 05:52 PM

Koch Entertainment
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Koch Entertainment was a music, film and television distribution company. It was purchased by E1 Entertainment in 2005 and now operates under the name E1 Entertainment.
[edit]History

The company began in 1975 as Koch International. Founded by Franz Koch, Koch International was an independent Austrian record label and music distribution company that specialized in German and classical music recordings.[1]
For over 20 years, the company operated under the name Koch Entertainment, a music, film, and television distribution company that was started in 1987 by Franz's son Michael.
By 1991, Koch had become one of the first national independent distributors of domestic labels in the U.S. by offering an alternative to the traditional system of regional independent distribution or national major label distribution.[2] In 1992, Koch was ranked #315 on Inc. Magazine’s list of America’s 500 fastest-growing private companies, and has since grown into an entertainment conglomerate.[3]
Koch expanded into the Canadian market in 1995 by forming the Toronto-based Koch Entertainment Canada. It was announced in 2005 that Koch was acquired by Canadian company Entertainment One (formerly ROW Entertainment for a purchase price of approximately $80 million dollars.[4] As of January 2009, Koch has been rebranded under the name E1 Entertainment.
[edit]

Ripped from WIKI.

**Didz** · August 22, 2011, 03:45 AM

Hi Mask, Yeah!.....I read that too. But that really makes the whole thing even more puzzling. If one assumes that the wiki information is accurate then Koch Entertainment in Europe ceased trading in 2005 (becoming E1 Entertainment), and the only company with that name still trading is doing so in the USA and Canada.

So, why are my video's being banned in Germany?

However, ignoring the question of who Koch Entertainment are, I am also worried that this might damage my reputation with YouTube and whether it will prevent them granting me the privilege of unlimited video length. At the moment I have to limit my video's to 15 minutes duration, and you have to prove you are trustworthy before YouTube will lift that restriction. Tha's apart from the fact that Totalwar players in Germany can't watch episode 8 and 9 of my campaign

So, I've also been racking my brain to try and work out what it is that Koch Entertainment are complaining about. I got no complaints about the content of Didz Plays Prussian Parts 1 thru 7, so I assume they had no complaint's about the content of these episodes.

Which it means it must be something I've added in Part 8 and 9. But I've gone through these video's trying to isolate something that I added in Part 8 that wasn't in the earlier video's and I'm really at a loss what it might be. Even ignoring the fact that nothing I've used came knowingly from a commerical recording.

Consequently, the really frustrating thing is that I don't even have the option to remove the offending item to avoid the problem, as I can't work out what it is. I thought if I could work out who Koch Entertainment were I might get a clue as to what they sold, and hence what they might think I'd copied from them.

I'm actually considering publishing seperate video's featuring individual and seperate items of each piece of background music I have used in my video's to try and isolate the one that Koch are complaning about. But I would have thought that if a complaint was lodged then it ought to say what its complaining about, and the sensible thing to do it pass thatm information on to the person who published the video. Not make some general 'something has offended' statement and leave them in the dark.

**GasMask** · August 22, 2011, 08:32 AM

Sorry for the simple reply can you just simply swap the track over and re upload ???

This would possibly avoid any actual cenership and owning rights of that group?

**Didz** · August 22, 2011, 09:30 AM

Hi Mask!

Sorry for the simple reply can you just simply swap the track over and re upload ???
This would possibly avoid any actual cenership and owning rights of that group?

Oh! absolutely, thats the simple answer. The problem is that the complaint from YouTube doesn't tell me which clip is the basis of the complaint, so I don't know which to swap. What I have just done is post a whole series of test video's entitled 'Who the hell are Koch entertainment?', each of which contains a single music clip from my video's. The idea is that whichever one Koch complains about will determine which clip or clips they object to.

****
Well my cunning plan worked. I published a series of video's entitled 'Who the hell are Koch Entertainment?', and each video had a different music clip as background music.

Consequently, I was able to wait and see which video Koch Entertainment complained about and when they did I knew exactly which music clip was the problem.

It turned out to be 'La Follia', a melody from the 16th century with no known composer, but which has been copied by numerous composers since inlcuding Mozart, Vivaldi and several Hymn writers. It also featued in the film Barry Lynden where is was renamed 'Sarabande's Theme'. So, I'm still a bit puzzled why Koch are getting stressed about it, but the good news is that there are literally hundred's of alternative versions and recordings of this melody to choose from so I'll simply use a different version.

I doubt Koch can claim to own the tune itself, so it must just be that they think I got my clip off of one of their CD's or something.

I'll see if I can find a live recording of it somewhere and credit the artist in my video.

****
Ok! I've already found a really nice live performance of this melody on YouTube being performed by the Il Festino Baroque Ensemble.

And I've sent them an email just to ask if it's ok for me to use a short clip from this performance in my video's, provided I credit them and include their website URL.

**Top-Tier-Tech** · August 22, 2011, 01:32 PM

Well, it's good to hear that Cock entertainment has lived up to their name by being such a dick.

**Jaketh** · August 22, 2011, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Top-Tier-Tech

Well, it's good to hear that Cock entertainment has lived up to their name by being such a dick.

i hate youtube, the only reason i upload to it is because there isnt a way to embed videos otherwise, they

ing took down a 3 minute long HD video i uploaded of HAL singing Daisy even though there is another IDENTICAL video that has over 300,000 views that hasnt been pulled, youtube is a POS

**Didz** · August 23, 2011, 04:32 AM

I don't mind swapping the clip, but I am a bit puzzled as to how Koch Entertanment can lay claim to a recording of a tune which quite literally plastered all over YouTube in various formats.

I actually downloaded it from a video which was presenting a series of Prussian Regimental Flags, so I can only assume that whoever recorded that video must have lifted the track off a CD published by Koch Entertainment.

But really...banning a ten second clip of a melody that appears in literally dozens of other videos seems a bit trivial. Anyway, their loss will hopefully be the Il Festino Baroque Ensemble's gain as I shall now credit them with the clip and provide people with their web address in case they want to buy one of their CD's.

The other puzzle of course is 'Why only Germany?'

Still not sure what Koch hoped to acheive by banning my video just in Germany. Do they think perhaps that only German's buy classical music?

I am just glad that my cunning plan worked and I was able to isolate the music clip they were complaining about.

*******

Ok! slightly changing the topic does anyone have a clear understanding of how copyright works when it comes to the distribution of recorded music.

I ask because I think I've found the source of the recording that Koch entertainment complained about. Just by ear, I think its a recording of 'La Folia' made by the City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra. So, it may have been published on a CD at some point by Koch Entertainment, which could have explained to complaint.

However, a quick search of the net to look for the CD soon releaved that the City of Prague Philharmonic are major recording artists whose work is widely available in all sorts of mediums (including YouTube and MP3). I've even found the 'La Follia' melody as recorded by them for sale as an iPod tune for 79p.

The question is if the tune has been published widely, by various companies, in various formats, for public consumation and in many cases with the expectation that it will be played freely in public.

Can any of it's distributors claim sole copyright on its distribution?

I mean if I paid 79p and bought the iPod version could I not record myself playing it in public, or are we all breaching copyright every time our phone goes off?

**Veliky Kaiser Theos** · August 23, 2011, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Didz

I mean if I paid 79p and bought the iPod version could I not record myself playing it in public, or are we all breaching copyright every time our phone goes off?

You can play and record it yourself without buying it. A song that old is in the public domain.

**Didz** · August 23, 2011, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by J.Philp

You can play and record it yourself without buying it. A song that old is in the public domain.

Ah well! Whilst that is true....in fact copyright even when it did exist on a tune in the first place only lasts 60 years, so all clasical music by definition is free domain by now.

However, there is copyright of performance and distribution. So, if as in this case The City of Prague Philharmonic play 'La Folia' and that performance is recorded then they own the copyright on that performance for 60 years.

Likewise, if Koch Entertainment distributed the recording on a CD called 'Prague play classical stuff' then they own copyright on the recording distributed on their CD for 60 years.

However, my point was that the City of Prague Philharmonic seem to have made their performance freely available to everyone for use on anything including mobile phones, and YouTube. So, whilst they still own the copyright on the performance it looks as though they have waived it and released the peice for free public enjoyment. e.g. if you can put it on your mobile phone then it could be played anywhere at any time without their explicit permission.

So, does that make it public domain, and undermine any claims from Koch Entertainment that they have exclusive distribution rights?

**Veliky Kaiser Theos** · August 23, 2011, 10:25 AM

If Koch entertainment owns the rights, it doesn't matter what the musicians intended.

**Didz** · August 23, 2011, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by J.Philp

If Koch entertainment owns the rights, it doesn't matter what the musicians intended.

Is that true?

So, if for example the City of Prague record a copy of 'La Folia' for a CD compliation to be published by Koch Entertainment, and then three months later do another recording and post it on YouTube for free download, or sell it to Arthur Daly IPod's for use as a mobile phone ring tone. then everyone who downloads it from YouTube or instals it on their phone is in breach of copyright with Koch Entertainment because they published it first?

Not sure if that makes sense. Surely if Koch had sole distribution rights then the City of Prague Philharmonic ought to be prevented for making any further recordings of that tune.