The Juggernaut

[boerekovic]

So i started up my BC 2.3 again, and i decided to play as Armenia for a change.

So me and the ERE double team on the Turks. Actually, its just the ERE ripping them apart, because...they seem to have a lot of units, while i just get a single unit every few turns in one castle.

Now with the Turks gone, the ERE was bordering me. I was not allied with them, so they simply attack me.
All is well, i win a few battles, and wipe out some 3-4 Stacks.

I send an Army to besiege some coastal town of theirs, that army had at least 10 Units in it, and seeing the Banner of the Garrison in the Castle and clicking the infochart, it tells me there is not more than three units in there.

A cakewalk i think, but no. I end my turn, and suddenly a 3/4 stack, with 2 of those kickass spear emperors guard units SPAWNS right in the castle and OBLITERATES my "attacking" army.

I thought it was just bad luck, but no.
Other than that stack, there were no major armies around, so i was preparing an offensive.
Turns out i should stick to defensive actions as out of the blue, another Two (!) 3/4 Stacks are spawned.

I quit, for that was too grim for me. I get enough grimdarkness from all the 40k i consume. I seriously felt like fending off a Tyranid Horde, for everything you kill you get 3 more
(bonus for matching colours of both Menaces)

Now seriously. Is there any patch, any way to fix this?
The game is unplayable as it is right now.
You guys should see my strat map. Its like the byzantine Armies are actually just enjoying themselves, doing a epic continent-spanning conga line.

[Dago Red]

This is to counter the AI's foolish behavior of not leaving their important cities and capitols garrisoned. Maybe some of the garrisons are too hardcore though.

You should try the RBBR submod, it fixes the 2 biggest issues with BC 2.3 in my opinion: the bugged swordsmen (re-arranged weapons speeds and stats balance out swordsmen again) and eliminates the potential for stack spam which tends to be especially bad with the ERE (multi-turn recruitment for elites, and longer replenish rates prevent the AI from spamming professional armies).

[Lova527]

I have the same issue, even playing as the Eastern Roman Empire itself, which I'm told should be a relatively easy faction. I've already built a lot of ports, receive quite a lot of cash per turn and have taken a few cities from the Seljuqs already, but fighting them just isn't fair.

I had a similar experience, on normal difficulty with a full stack (a few good units, but also cannon fodder for adding to the numbers) I attack a small settlement in the east of Anatolia and besiege it. The next turn the besieged army gets all kinds of elite units which are super experienced with silver chevrons, and another huge army with super experienced elites spawns close to the town. My army is then suddenly severely underpowered. The only way to prevent this would have been to take along a ballista or catapult and then autoresolve so the walls are 'ignored' (because a single catapult unit doesn't seem to be enough to break through stone wall) and the reinforcement script for the AI doesn't take effect, or at least after I've taken the town.

Don't get me wrong. I agree the AI is stupid as a brick and it's no fun to conquer a huge city which is defended by cannon fodder which are steamrolled without effort. I think it's a good idea that the AI gets some more units to make the battles larger.

But right now the reinforcements for the AI are way out of proportion. Yes, they could be given some reinforcements, but mostly low-end units with just a few elites and no additional experience please. The way it is right now makes the game unplayable, unfair and not enjoyable for me. I don't understand how anyone can still enjoy or win a campaign under the current conditions.

I want to like this mod, I think the developers have done a magnificient job, but the reinforcements spoil the fun. I hope as well that this will be balanced in the next version.

[DevrimJan]

Hmm, have you guys deleted garrison script?

[Dago Red]

but that would be removing a feature, a bit of hard work by the team that serves a purpose -- better to improve it with suggestions instead. And in the meantime, using RBBR's EDU and EDB prevents any overwhelming stack spam from occurring which will help mitigate the garrison script because you won't have unrealistic amounts of troops wandering around on top of it. Also, the garrison script only applies to certain important sites, not every town and castle.

[DevrimJan]

But what ZorboZ described sounds alot like a garrison script. And the current garrison script is rather unrealistic, I once besieged a Roman town with a garrison of only two units, only to have it reinforced by a full stack of elite troops with 2 experience chevrons the next turn..........

[boerekovic]

DevrimJan, what you described sounds as if you tried to conquer their biggest town or something. Most likely Constantinople.

Also no, Its not the garrison script. I like that featuere, it stops players from easily steamrolling settlements with only a few units in them.
But these guys actually spawned in that settlement before i got there and moved quite a lot to attack and terminate my army.

Dago Red, Is that submod really effective at destroying stack spamming? Because i had only a few units recruited every other turn, and if the waiting times are even longer in the mod, i will surely get spammed even faster.

Lova:

I want to like this mod, I think the developers have done a magnificient job, but the reinforcements spoil the fun. I hope as well that this will be balanced in the next version.

This, so many times.
I have played BC from the first release on, and i dont think there was an issue like this back then. Its really sad, for all thats holding me to m2tw is BC

[k/t]

Also no, Its not the garrison script.

So the units spawned before you besieged the city? Maybe they arrived from another place and more were recruited that turn.

The problem with the garrison script in BC is that there is no accompanying script that destroys the spawned units once the city is no longer under siege. Such a script would prevent the AI from using the massive forces it receives on the offensive. I think it was Rozanov who made such a script for SS, so you should ask him.

The amount and type of units spawned should correlate to the size of the settlement walls.

[knight who says nee]

the romans can field alot of horse archers, a horse archer army can destroy pretty much anything as long as the enemy doesn't have lots of heavy cavalry... or elephants. A garrison script from a rum seljuk settlement would be devoured as the units that spawn are lightly armoured. Note that exp doesnt matter a great deal in this mod, it only gives them a small bonus to attack

[mAIOR]

The problem with the garrison script in BC is that there is no accompanying script that destroys the spawned units once the city is no longer under siege. Such a script would prevent the AI from using the massive forces it receives on the offensive. I think it was Rozanov who made such a script for SS, so you should ask him.

The amount and type of units spawned should correlate to the size of the settlement walls.

This. In my ERE when at war with the SOR I besieged one of their cities and apparently armies sprouted out every turn the city was besieged. Got to the point where they picked a full stack and charged attacked me. So I broke the siege. then, the army came out and attacked me. So I battled and I won. Then another army spawned out of nowhere... It's pretty impossible to capture some cities even with full stacks since the troops seem to be coming and coming and I can't afford another any more troops. I'm a fan of garrison scripts but I think BCs is broken.



Cheers...

[Harith]

This. In my ERE when at war with the SOR I besieged one of their cities and apparently armies sprouted out every turn the city was besieged. Got to the point where they picked a full stack and charged attacked me. So I broke the siege. then, the army came out and attacked me. So I battled and I won. Then another army spawned out of nowhere... It's pretty impossible to capture some cities even with full stacks since the troops seem to be coming and coming and I can't afford another any more troops. I'm a fan of garrison scripts but I think BCs is broken.



Cheers...

I just think u need more practice. I have no problem conquering the ERE with 4-5 stacks and I don't even need elite generals (just ones with a slight morale bonus) or many elite units. I think the script is fine, the only real problem is the unit's response. Sometimes the cavalry takes too much time to withdraw which makes me lost 10 men at once.

Best strategy is to make use of ur cavalry. Have at least 3 units of heavy cavalry and 2 light cavalry. Use light to either charge the horse archers and pin them down, to pin down the heavy cavalry while urs charge from the flank or to support the infantry by attacking the enemy flanks.

Infantry and foot archers are useless especially in offensive. They are good in sieges and holding the line, but u can never rely on especially when surrounded by horse archers. You sometimes lose half of ur infantry before even charging the enemy line.

bottom line, just trick the enemy into sending more troops next to their besieged settlement and then open battle them. If you have a capable cavalry, you should have no problem in finishing both off, leaving the city with no garrison and keeping at least half of ur army.

[Dago Red]

Yes the stacks are very much reduced from what I've seen in 2 campaigns so far with a 3rd one recently started. I think they need more adjusting, for example some medium units take 2 turns to recruit which should only need 1, but overall, with a little foresight planning on your part you can get the elites you need and in the meantime the AI cannot spam them at you because it has to abide by the same rules. I got used to it pretty quickly and it feels ever more satisfying fielding an elite unit now.

The problem with the current version is that with the huge money bonuses the AI gets, after you annihilate a huge army of theirs they can just instantly recruit another one -- now the AI must wait just like you, so it doesn't matter if the AI has 500,000 gold pieces it can't just spam out an army.

[DevrimJan]

Harith, can you write a guide to playing the the Seljuks of Rum in 2.3, pretty please?

[Harith]

Harith, can you write a guide to playing the the Seljuks of Rum in 2.3, pretty please?

I'm sorry but too lazy and I think everyone has a way of playing. The Seljuks of Rum are probably the best faction because they have up-to-date elite units. All u need to do is to conquer their island settlements. Trust me, the romans wont bother takin them back which will contribute to their own defeat. Once conquered, attack two of their cities and try to draw as many units towards u as possible, then send ur units from the island on raid missions. These units will raid the coastal cities which has low garrison. Don't sack, unless u dont care about reputation. Instead, destroy their buildings which will cause a big blow to them since they are core cities. After making huge money, build ur army and never let any frontier go away. If ur desperate, trade a frontier province to an ally faction so they can at least stop the Roman attack while u regroup and lunch an offensive.

After raiding the coastal cities, repair ur raid stack and lunch an offensive on poorly guarded Constantinople. Make sure to have siege engines and a spy to quickly conquer it. Again.... RAID THE CITY, yes I know it is crazy, but it is a must against mighty Rome. This will even more cripple their economy and give u an advantage.

Make sure to have a veteran naval units since the romans are full of those.

After u did all of these, simply destroy whatever is left from their naval and blockade every single port. This will definitely lead the Romans to bankrupt in 4-7 Turns while u will swim in money.

Remember to make many alliances and send ur imams to Jerusalem to gain more piety and constantly call jihads against the Romans or Armenians if possible. After taking care of Rome, use diplomacy with ur allies to buy ur provinces and then crush them. Of course I never finished my Turkish campaign because of the 4th crusade bug (yes forgot to save previously). All u have to do, is let the romans attack the two rebel cities in the beginning of the game and then start ur offensive.

if u play it right in the beginning, u pretty much should be the strongest after Koj or Georgia.

[nnnm]

I think GrandViZ scripted for most BC and Miraj did some I think, but it would be better to ask AD, Ahiga or Strelac. They where part of the old teem and GV specially.

[k/t]

There's a RR/RC for BC?

Oh, rusnmat's thing.