Capitalism, competition and you!

[hellas1]

Howdy,

I wanted to communicate the interconnectedness of the 3 fore-mentioned things in my title and what they do in a tangible way.

Capitalism promotes competition which in turn promotes companies having "deals" and "specials" and lower prices, supposedly all the better for the consumer.

Well............

Ever think about IF the stockholders of these corporations and companies ever thought about the business practices of these respective corps and comps?

Consider:
In modern society, we have 401k's, "diversified portfolios," gold, buying debt, etc.
This type of equity mixture, per se, has never occurred before in history.

Has the means of HOW companies and corps get their business goals met EVER occurred to any stockholder OR are stockholders merely concerned with $$ so they can die in comfort &/OR with a large slice of money cushioning?

Mini-Case study...Walmart:
Ex. Walmart is essentially a revolving door or high turnover company.
Only a very few people stay there to move up into management.
Walmart gets most of its things from American businesses who do business in China, Vietnam, Thailand, etc.
The average employee there doesn't care about the business, only that they make some money and go home.
No thought or concern has taken place about sweatshops in Pacific rim countries OR about how the American people have been stripped of earning potential IF this company was made to do business on American soil.

Overarching all, Stockholders care essentially only for bottom line profits.

How do YOU perceive this?

Comments please
hellas1.5

[Justice and Mercy]

Has the means of HOW companies and corps get their business goals met EVER occurred to any stockholder OR are stockholders merely concerned with $$ so they can die in comfort &/OR with a large slice of money cushioning?

Sure. They provide manufacturing jobs to people in poor countries.

Also, your post is incoherent.

[Phier]

Also, your post is incoherent.

[hellas1]

Sure. They provide manufacturing jobs to people in poor countries.

Also, your post is incoherent.

No my post isn't incoherent. You just didn't read into what I'm saying.

Like I said, Capitalism, competition, and how it affects the stockholder and worker in the U.S. is what I'm talking about. How all 3/4 are interconnected.

I believe that most people do NOT understand the interrelationship of all 3.

Make sense now buddy?
hellas1.5

[Diamat]

No my post isn't incoherent. You just didn't read into what I'm saying.

Like I said, Capitalism, competition, and how it affects the stockholder and worker in the U.S. is what I'm talking about. How all 3/4 are interconnected.

I believe that most people do NOT understand the interrelationship of all 3.

Make sense now buddy?
hellas1.5

It just seems very obvious what you are pointing out. Of course everything is interconnected. Of course every actor has its own rational interests. It is the interrelationships of varying interests which makes this whole system work, and also presents the foundations for its eventual supplanting by a new system.

[Enemy of the State]

Is this some kind of a rant against globalization?

[Ak1980]

The problem is in ????? Do you mean shareholder shouldn't care about bottom line profit? or Wallmart should fire all employee that doesn't care about the company?

[Diamat]

What exactly is the point you are trying to make?

[basics]

" What exactly is the point you are trying to make? "

Admiral_TvS,

I think the point he is trying to make is that shareholders in most companies don't or cannot see how ruthless some of the men and women running them are prepared to be. This is the downside of competition and we the customers as well as the shareholders are being given the runaround in many aspects as a result.

[Helm]

Its all for Free Dum according to this chap.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Denny Crane!]

Another misconception about "Sweatshops" wonderful. Especially regarding Thailand...I wish there was a rule that the people who complain about this stuff have to have visited the places they wish to complain about and talked to the people who potentially would be working in those places. Though as rants go this one goes pretty low down in the list.

Kenya's June Arunga, who studies trade policy, doesn't think so. She said nobody in her country thinks about companies exploiting them. "When there's a new company opening a factory people are excited about it," she said.

Arunga and DeBroy point out that in poor countries, the Nike factories that rich American students call sweatshops routinely pay twice what local factories pay, and more than triple what people earn doing much harder and more dangerous work in the fields. Arunga says people in Kenya would volunteer to work in sweatshops for free, just to have access to clean running water and electricity without carrying firewood. "I wish we would have more sweatshops, quote unquote, in my country," Arunga told me.

Most economists agree that "sweatshops" are what allowed people in now-thriving places like South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore to work their way out of poverty.

A Win-Win Situation?

Arunga said, "People get jobs in these places, their generation lives better than their parents lived. Most of them work for these companies for a while, go off and start their own businesses, it's a win-win situation for everyone," she said.

And that, she says, is why the students who protest are ignorant and clueless.

[hellas1]

Another misconception about "Sweatshops" wonderful. Especially regarding Thailand...I wish there was a rule that the people who complain about this stuff have to have visited the places they wish to complain about and talked to the people who potentially would be working in those places. Though as rants go this one goes pretty low down in the list.

Hey bud, For your information my friends wife IS from Thailand.
She just recently came here too (6 mos ago)

I know she got paid squat.

Put your "intellectualism" aside now and wake up. Capitalism is ONLY good for companies, the employees don't see how much they ACTUALLY make the company, nor are they actually paid for what they bring a company IMHO. Furthermore, 3-4th world countries don't know any better anyway....Have you asked someone in Thailand how things are in comparison to Burma or Vietnam or Indonesia? Answer: NO

An answer behind every post does NOT humility make.

hellas1.5

[Denny Crane!]

Hey bud, For your information my friends wife IS from Thailand.
She just recently came here too (6 mos ago)

I know she got paid squat.

Put your "intellectualism" aside now and wake up. Capitalism is ONLY good for companies, the employees don't see how much they ACTUALLY make the company, nor are they actually paid for what they bring a company IMHO. Furthermore, 3-4th world countries don't know any better anyway....Have you asked someone in Thailand how things are in comparison to Burma or Vietnam or Indonesia? Answer: NO

An answer behind every post does NOT humility make.

hellas1.5

I am not putting my intellectualism aside, it is knowledge of what the people say who live there, of what would happen to them if the sweatshops upped and left and how this exploitation has helped Thailand grow into a booming economy and living standards are shooting through the roof with socialised medicine being introduced (30 baht max for treatment for anyone now unlike before) and infrastructure being built to benefit the poor - hence why Thaskins departure caused so many riots as he used tax revenue to transform the rural peoples lives.

Forgive me if I don't take your brief conversation with one thai person for a decent view. Have you been there? Spent time there? Talked to a few dozen?

I do believe they do know better, Vietnam is another country whose economy is booming. How very condescending of you to assume that "they don't know better" how gracious you are to pity these poor ignorant savages. That was a lovely bit of racism there.

One of my friends Bo who I was drinking with in Jomtien about 5 weeks ago is a mechanical engineer who has travelled the USA with work and is called out to Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam and occasionally Japan and drives a Honda CRV.

Have you asked someone in Thailand how things are in comparison to Burma or Vietnam or Indonesia? Answer: NO

Answer: YES

But thank you for the extremely arrogant position on what I have and haven't done. Check my profile picture, been in a relationship with a Thai for about 3 and 1/2 years and was just out in Thailand for a considerable length of time, furthermore being the type of person I am who loves history, economics and business some of my conversations inevitably come to life in thailand and the surrounding countries and what is affecting the economics as does a considerable amount of my reading time since the question of buying property out there was pertinent as well as several business opportunities.

Business being out there transforms countries whose previous existence was poverty stricken into a place where people get access to infrastructure and healthcare.

This was a wonderful example of you showing me your racism and complete inept grasp of the Asian situation so thank you for that it has at least amused me!

[hellas1]

I am not putting my intellectualism aside, it is knowledge of what the people say who live there, of what would happen to them if the sweatshops upped and left and how this exploitation has helped Thailand grow into a booming economy and living standards are shooting through the roof with socialised medicine being introduced (30 baht max for treatment for anyone now unlike before) and infrastructure being built to benefit the poor - hence why Thaskins departure caused so many riots as he used tax revenue to transform the rural peoples lives.

Forgive me if I don't take your brief conversation with one thai person for a decent view. Have you been there? Spent time there? Talked to a few dozen?

I do believe they do know better, Vietnam is another country whose economy is booming. How very condescending of you to assume that "they don't know better" how gracious you are to pity these poor ignorant savages. That was a lovely bit of racism there.

One of my friends Bo who I was drinking with in Jomtien about 5 weeks ago is a mechanical engineer who has travelled the USA with work and is called out to Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam and occasionally Japan and drives a Honda CRV.



Answer: YES

But thank you for the extremely arrogant position on what I have and haven't done. Check my profile picture, been in a relationship with a Thai for about 3 and 1/2 years and was just out in Thailand for a considerable length of time, furthermore being the type of person I am who loves history, economics and business some of my conversations inevitably come to life in thailand and the surrounding countries and what is affecting the economics as does a considerable amount of my reading time since the question of buying property out there was pertinent as well as several business opportunities.

Business being out there transforms countries whose previous existence was poverty stricken into a place where people get access to infrastructure and healthcare.

This was a wonderful example of you showing me your racism and complete inept grasp of the Asian situation so thank you for that it has at least amused me!

First point: The Thai ARE being exploited. What you say matters little to me. This is just a sub-forum.

Second point: I'm not racist, you however are a BIT oversensitive and are brainwashed. You probably believe that American companies
operating out of these countries are "Real American Patriots." Poor Southeast Asia! Take a look at poor unemployed Americans Denny old boy.

Third point: The "(Southeast) Asian situation" is such that being a largely face-value oriented area of the world AND being very very poor, ANY company going there would make a killing on the lower Pacific rim countries by exploiting its' people, who are constantly seeking to be better than their fellow countrymen/women.

Ex. Why doesn't Thailand's King DO something about the prostitution in Bangkok? He gets money from police kickbacks
Why do people approach him and revere him like his poop doesn't stink? The Thai people are brainwashed into thinking he's the man.
Ever hear of the "Red shirts" in Thailand? Why would such a group exist if "things are cool in Thailand?"

Fourth point, A brief history lesson for you regarding Southeastern Asian countries:
The Southeast Asian countries have been in war for a very, very long time:
Ex. Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Cambodia, Burma, Indonesia weren't always "peaceful" countries.
French Indochina and battles of that era, Dutch colonization of Indonesia, China constantly dipping into the fore-mentioned countries, etc.

FYI, The Thai person I spoke to is from Udon Thani, she's my friend's wife.
I'm quite aware of how much money she got paid THANKS, which was DIRT.

One word of advice man:
Your posts are consistently loaded with intellectual imperialism. Cool out and humble your ego.

Conversation with you is over yet again pal.
Good bye,
hellas1.5

[Denny Crane!]

First point: The Thai ARE being exploited. What you say matters little to me. This is just a sub-forum.

Yet their standard ofliving has gone through the roof, that doesn't fit with your nice little socialist rant though so now you tell me you don't care.

Second point: I'm not racist, you however are a BIT oversensitive and are brainwashed. You probably believe that American companies
operating out of these countries are "Real American Patriots." Poor Southeast Asia! Take a look at poor unemployed Americans Denny old boy.

You clearly are racist. Is this another point where you will betray your complete ignorance of economics and tell me that outsourcing is somehow a bad thing?

Third point: The "(Southeast) Asian situation" is such that being a largely face-value oriented area of the world AND being very very poor, ANY company going there would make a killing on the lower Pacific rim countries by exploiting its' people, who are constantly seeking to be better than their fellow countrymen/women.

Yet they pay better than domestic firms and I've already given a link to data proving that in this thread.

Ex. Why doesn't Thailand's King DO something about the prostitution in Bangkok? He gets money from police kickbacks
Why do people approach him and revere him like his poop doesn't stink? The Thai people are brainwashed into thinking he's the man.
Ever hear of the "Red shirts" in Thailand? Why would such a group exist if "things are cool in Thailand?"

I already mentioned this the roots of the red shirts and yellow shirts is in Thaskins forced departure and the prural and poor desiring more of the massive reforms he brought in. The King is in a precarious position of being loved but with little power and acting as a mediator between the military and the government.

But thanks for showing your utter ignorance on this topic (again).

Fourth point, A brief history lesson for you regarding Southeastern Asian countries:
The Southeast Asian countries have been in war for a very, very long time:
Ex. Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Cambodia, Burma, Indonesia weren't always "peaceful" countries.
French Indochina and battles of that era, Dutch colonization of Indonesia, China constantly dipping into the fore-mentioned countries, etc.

Utterly irrelevant to the topic. Why you brought this up I don't know but then it fits into the usual incoherent responses I get from you.

FYI, The Thai person I spoke to is from Udon Thani, she's my friend's wife.
I'm quite aware of how much money she got paid THANKS, which was DIRT.

So you've talked to one person, I've spent a lot of time there. I really couldn't care less what you "think" you know.

One word of advice man:
Your posts are consistently loaded with intellectual imperialism. Cool out and humble your ego.

Conversation with you is over yet again pal.
Good bye,
hellas1.5

You are the most wildly egotistical person on this board, you don't come here to debate but to preach. I find the idea of being humble around you laughable especially around a topic where you've prove you have zero knowledge. Why would I be humble when I've just rinsed your argument and hung it out to dry?

[Enemy of the State]

Hey bud, For your information my friends wife IS from Thailand.
She just recently came here too (6 mos ago)

I know she got paid squat.

Put your "intellectualism" aside now and wake up. Capitalism is ONLY good for companies, the employees don't see how much they ACTUALLY make the company, nor are they actually paid for what they bring a company IMHO. Furthermore, 3-4th world countries don't know any better anyway....Have you asked someone in Thailand how things are in comparison to Burma or Vietnam or Indonesia? Answer: NO

An answer behind every post does NOT humility make.

hellas1.5

Since the industrial revolution and the dawn of capitalism, we have seen a remarkable increase in our standard of living. That is putting it mildly. Today even the poorest members of society enjoy luxuries which only kings did in the past. Food is in such an abundance that we are actually having problems with people eating too much, something which would have been hard to imagine for a commoner living just 100 years ago. And you are telling me that capitalism is only for the benefit of the rich? Woods' law holds true.

Whenever the private sector introduces an innovation that makes the poor better off than they would have been without it, or that offers benefits or terms that no one else is prepared to offer them, someone—in the name of helping the poor—will call for curbing or abolishing it.

You hate the poor. Or at least the ideas you advocate certainly do.

[hellas1]

Since the industrial revolution and the dawn of capitalism, we have seen a remarkable increase in our standard of living. That is putting it mildly. Today even the poorest members of society enjoy luxuries which only kings did in the past. Food is in such an abundance that we are actually having problems with people eating too much, something which would have been hard to imagine for a commoner living just 100 years ago. And you are telling me that capitalism is only for the benefit of the rich? Woods' law holds true.

You hate the poor. Or at least the ideas you advocate certainly do.

Part I
I do not deny the standard of living has been bettered however at what cost?
Think long and hard about that before responding..........

Part II
No, I don't hate the poor but it seems as though YOU are a blind Capitalist who thinks that just because of the English industrial revolution, Yes ENGLISH because industrial revolution occurred during the Medieval time frame preceding the English one: See Jean Gimpel "The Medieval Machine" and other authors, that the modern ideology & practice of Capitalism is the answer to the planet's woes.

No buddy, It is the Selfishness of people that causes problems. People, you and me, must change.

Besides, WHO profits with the greatest amount of dividends under Capitalism? The company owner and Board and stockholders, not the employees. The underlings (employees) who actually support the structural behemoths called corporations which control most of the U.S. workforce get paid a fraction of what they actually earn for the corporation.

hellas1.5

[Enemy of the State]

Part I
I do not deny the standard of living has been bettered however at what cost?
Think long and hard about that before responding..........

Are you actually going to make a point?

No, I don't hate the poor but it seems as though YOU are a blind Capitalist who thinks that just because of the English industrial revolution, Yes ENGLISH because industrial revolution occurred during the Medieval time frame preceding the English one: See Jean Gimpel "The Medieval Machine" and other authors, that the modern ideology & practice of Capitalism is the answer to the planet's woes.

As Denny said, you came here to preach, not to debate. Make an actual argument. You act as if you're somekind of beacon of enlightenment and we're blind for not believing in your tired old Marxist theories that have long been refuted and belong in the graveyard of intellectual thought.

No buddy, It is the Selfishness of people that causes problems. People, you and me, must change.

Yet again, incredibly vague. What problems? How must we change? Why is selfishness even bad?

Besides, WHO profits with the greatest amount of dividends under Capitalism? The company owner and Board and stockholders, not the employees. The underlings (employees) who actually support the structural behemoths called corporations which control most of the U.S. workforce get paid a fraction of what they actually earn for the corporation.

Capitalists get the most profit because they take risk. Capitalists invest into a venture without knowing if it will be profitable. It takes months, years even for a business to start turning profit, if ever. They hold out on their reward, while a laborer takes a job knowing he will always get a wage at the end of the month.

But lets get to the root of the matter of why you're wrong. Tell me, what makes something valuable?

[basics]

hellas1,

Calm down old fella. Businesses can only employ people if they make profits and that begins at the smallest all the way to the largest. It also means on the same scale that they can only pay what is bearable without raising prices. Of course it is natural that empoyees always want more but more always results in cost increases that sometimes are not sustainable.

That said I am quite sure that Thailand will eventually grow just as others have where wages will improve as well as the standards of living but it takes time and more importantly the demand for its goods. It has always been to the advantage of any that can undercut its opposition to perpetuate that demand.

When I was running a toy wholesaler manufacturing had shifted from Britain and Germany to Hong Kong and as its prices rose on to mainland China. The same was happening with many other products such as cars but as standards and wages rose in these countries their goods became not so competative and the market moved on.

What I am trying to say is that when one cannot compete there are no jobs, not at any price unless the owner wishes to go under and remember it is his or her money that is at stake, not the employee's. So in effect the largest companies have learned to be ruthless to get where they are, the sad part being the bodies left behind.

[Veliky Kaiser Theos]

I'm not entirely capitalist, but I must say that there is nothing wrong with shareholders only looking out for themselves. That's all that everyone does. The factory worker works for money, the supervisor supervises for money, why shouldn't the investors invest for money?

If anyone's got a problem with this model of business, no-one's making them buy their products or making them work there. Underpaid factory workers in SE Asia can always go back to agriculture if they want, but presumably, the "evil greedy proletarian exploiting" corporations provide a better alternative, otherwise they wouldn't be able to entice workers to work for them.