Infinite Punishment

[Ancient Aliens]

We all know that Yahweh is perfect, and thusly, he is perfectly just. Why then are people who sinned for a lifetime punished for eternity? Isn't the punishment a bit disproportional? Infinite punishment for finite sins? It seems to me that the concept of a perfectly just god who punishes his imperfect creations with eternal, limitless punishment for committing a finite amount of sin is highly paradoxical.

[Helm]

People aren't sent to hell for eternity they send themselves there through separating themselves from God. And so they will suffer the metaphorical burning of the anguish of the soul. Or whatever, this isn't actually in the bible.

This guy spent 23 minutes in hell. He made a lot of money from his ordeal though. This wasn't metaphorical but real fire, 12K degrees of heat if you're actually in the fire apparently.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I posted this video before but I think its fantastic.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Here's another good description of hell.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ah when you're an atheist (or anything but a follower of Christ) on your deathbed you'll be crying out for Jesus oh yes you will, like these guys here look. Pure gold.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Vanoi]

Ah when you're an atheist (or anything but a follower of Christ) on your deathbed you'll be crying out for Jesus oh yes you will, like these guys here look. Pure gold.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I can tell you right now if i really wanted to i would mock God and all of religion until the very last moment i die. The fear of death causes many people to turn on their own beleifs, or to feel aoubt about what they believe. no human is perfect. Though i can tell you now ill be an atheist till the day i die.

Also atheists can technically believe in an afterlife, just not God. One last thing, those videos that you posted on which people described hell, are not evidence of hell because hell does not exist.

[Helm]

Also atheists cna technically believe in an afterlife, just not God.

Fair enough but if you're not a materialist then there isn't a particularly good reason to not believe in gods or some kind of higher power running the whole show as well as an afterlife. Without something like that in place I see no good reason why there ought to be an afterlife at all.

One last thing, those videos that you posted on which people described hell, are nto evidence of hell because hell does not exist.

All religions in the world believe in a hell interestingly enough Buddhists included. Though not all them have an eternal hell.

[Vanoi]

All religions in the world believe in a hell interestingly enough Buddhists included. Though not all them have an eternal hell.

Is that evidence towards an a hell? No. Its a made up place to scare people into doing the right thing. To not be bad basically.

[Helm]

Is that evidence towards an a hell? No. Its a made up place to scare people into doing the right thing. To not be bad basically.

If there is any kind of afterlife and no hell then we would be rubbing shoulders with Hitler and chums. So it would be nice if there was some kind of a segregation. But I wouldn't know. Interestingly when people are portrayed as being in hell in the bible they can still talk to people in heaven, as though they're not separate places.

[Hilarion]

People aren't sent to hell for eternity they send themselves there through separating themselves from God.

Lol, well done Helm!

[Helm]

Lol, well done Helm!

Though apparently everyone who isn't a Christian are separating themselves from God as well, even Muslims who are the most God fearing people on the planet. If it were adressing only atheists that would make some degree of sense. Its one of those "pretend other religions don't exist" instances. Though the video I posted features Gandhis deathbed confession as he realised Hinduism was a load of bunk and he was on his way to hell for not believeing in Jesus (subconscious realisation).

[basics]

" People aren't sent to hell for eternity they send themselves there through separating themselves from God. And so they will suffer the metaphorical burning of the anguish of the soul. Or whatever, this isn't actually in the bible. "

Helm,

It isn't in the Bible is it not? Try reading the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ especially chapter 20. You call it metaphorical yet Jesus doesn't because of one distinct cause. It happens to be the finality of creation as ordained before the foundations of the world thus drawing together all that was prophesised in the garden by God Himself, in the book of Genesis.

[Phier]

People aren't sent to hell for eternity they send themselves there through separating themselves from God. And so they will suffer the metaphorical burning of the anguish of the soul. Or whatever, this isn't actually in the bible.

This guy spent 23 minutes in hell. He made a lot of money from his ordeal though. This wasn't metaphorical but real fire, 12K degrees of heat if you're actually in the fire apparently.

HOLY CRAP!

If only I were truly Evil I'd be so rich in about 5 years.

I'd start by writing a book on atheism. It wouldn't be good, or say anything new, I'd most likely have to be self published, but thats ok. I've got 10 grand to spare in this investment. This sets my credibility as an Atheist.

THEN I claim some near death experience. Being I'm a hedonist I'd claim to have partially drown while my wife frantically gave me CPR on some secluded beach.

Now for the payoff. I write a book of my vision of hell, I steal from whatever literature is out there now, talk about my coming to Christ, the folly of my Atheism, the love of our lord Jesus Christ, etc. Even better I'd sell copies of my 'pre-vision' atheist book and say they should read it as a warning for what to look for in their children etc.

WHY AM I NOT EVIL, WHY CAN'T I DO THIS!

[Himster]

The very definition of injustice.

[total relism]

We all know that Yahweh is perfect, and thusly, he is perfectly just. Why then are people who sinned for a lifetime punished for eternity? Isn't the punishment a bit disproportional? Infinite punishment for finite sins? It seems to me that the concept of a perfectly just god who punishes his imperfect creations with eternal, limitless punishment for committing a finite amount of sin is highly paradoxical.

First to say its literal fire is very debatable something im looking into, after all how can literal fire effect spiritual beings or souls? hell is described as dark so how can it be literal firebut im looking into all this so cant say for certain when jesus described hell it was not some place full of fire,but was referring to a dump outside jersulem that he likened it to. That there was fire somewere all the time but not all over fire people in fire constantly.


However i wanted to post this copy paste to respond to what you said.

Okay, for the sake of argument, let’s pretend that it is really mean of God to punish people for rebellion and unbelief. For the sake of argument, let’s say that everyone does go to Heaven, regardless of their status in the Book of Life. Wouldn’t it be horribly unfair for God to condemn people who hate Him to an eternity in His presence, whether they like it or not? Heaven wouldn’t be pleasant for those who hate God, because Heaven is the place where we will fully experience God’s presence. Those who love God look forward to Heaven with longing, but Heaven would be nearly as bad as Hell for the unbeliever, because the unregenerate heart hates God.
So in a sense, Hell is God finally giving the unbeliever what he wanted all along. But the absence of God means the absence of everything good, since everything good comes from Him


there are 2 kinds of people one says to god thy will be done [in witch case they go to heaven] another god says to them thy will be done in witch case they go to hell.


god does not send anyone to hell they chose to go god wants noone to go to hell
Hell was prepared for devil and his angels matt 25.41 not for humans
hevan was prepared for man 25.34


It is not gods fault that many will reject him, his offer is still fair and loving as hell was never meant for man.
Man chooses to go there witch has nothing to do with gods love or fairness but mans free will.
What of the people who do accept him? Should he not have made them because of those that chose life without god?


Degrees of punishment in hell matt 11 22-24 romans 2.6
hell is separation from gods presence 2 Thessalonians 1.9

[Panic]

First to say its literal fire is very debatable something im looking into, after all how can literal fire effect spiritual beings or souls? hell is described as dark so how can it be literal firebut im looking into all this so cant say for certain when jesus described hell it was not some place full of fire,but was referring to a dump outside jersulem that he likened it to. That there was fire somewere all the time but not all over fire people in fire constantly.


However i wanted to post this copy paste to respond to what you said.

Okay, for the sake of argument, let’s pretend that it is really mean of God to punish people for rebellion and unbelief. For the sake of argument, let’s say that everyone does go to Heaven, regardless of their status in the Book of Life. Wouldn’t it be horribly unfair for God to condemn people who hate Him to an eternity in His presence, whether they like it or not? Heaven wouldn’t be pleasant for those who hate God, because Heaven is the place where we will fully experience God’s presence. Those who love God look forward to Heaven with longing, but Heaven would be nearly as bad as Hell for the unbeliever, because the unregenerate heart hates God.
So in a sense, Hell is God finally giving the unbeliever what he wanted all along. But the absence of God means the absence of everything good, since everything good comes from Him


there are 2 kinds of people one says to god thy will be done [in witch case they go to heaven] another god says to them thy will be done in witch case they go to hell.


god does not send anyone to hell they chose to go god wants noone to go to hell
Hell was prepared for devil and his angels matt 25.41 not for humans
hevan was prepared for man 25.34


It is not gods fault that many will reject him, his offer is still fair and loving as hell was never meant for man.
Man chooses to go there witch has nothing to do with gods love or fairness but mans free will.
What of the people who do accept him? Should he not have made them because of those that chose life without god?


Degrees of punishment in hell matt 11 22-24 romans 2.6
hell is separation from gods presence 2 Thessalonians 1.9

Wow, well done! I really enjoyed reading this!It made sense to me and I pretty much think you nailed it

[AdamWeishaupt]

Trying to gain an advantage from persons that are in a weaker* position than oneself is indefinitively punishable.

*also less free position

[JJDXB]

It's arguments like these that made me go 'Damn it, eff it all : I'm agnostic now'.

But yeah, eternal punishment is rather ... extreme.

My big problem is that it doesn't matter what sin you commit in life, you can still go to heaven for all eternity if you repent.

e.g. (an extreme example) A murderer can go to heaven if on his execution bed he repents, while a man who committed only one sin in his entire life, who, for the sake of argument, spits on his mother, gets sent to hell.

But, I may in fact be wrong about the above due to some theological fiddling with the theory so I am always wrong, but oh well

I believe (sorta) in an eternal being (sorta). I just think organised religion is, frankly, silly.

[AdamWeishaupt]

If you take you're less free than if you can share. Free means being close to heaven.

Easy to forget. To forget things is a form of punishment, as it limits freedom.

[Helm]

Originally hell in early Christianity was the "outer darkness" and its still mentioned in the Bible. Back then it wasn't eternal as a belief in reincarnation was the norm. Souls flung out to the far reaches of the outer darkness were eaten by the "lion headed one" that could be Satan or the Demiurge.

[total relism]

Originally hell in early Christianity was the "outer darkness" and its still mentioned in the Bible. Back then it wasn't eternal as a belief in reincarnation was the norm. Souls flung out to the far reaches of the outer darkness were eaten by the "lion headed one" that could be Satan or the Demiurge.

sources? not the bible

[Helm]

Its in Pistis Sophia, it seems like a load of gibberish but it has some interesting paraelles to Hindu theology, including mention of a karma and rebirth system and the Barbel which is the womb of the universe.I think there was a bit of Hindu influence in Christianity, Jesus may have done a tour of India in his early life perhaps or it was just distilled through the Mysteries in of which early Christianity was a part. But the outer darkness is still mentioned in the canonical bible. There's still a fair amount of the Gnostic stuff in there when you look.

[xcorps]

We all know that Yahweh is perfect, and thusly, he is perfectly just. Why then are people who sinned for a lifetime punished for eternity? Isn't the punishment a bit disproportional? Infinite punishment for finite sins? It seems to me that the concept of a perfectly just god who punishes his imperfect creations with eternal, limitless punishment for committing a finite amount of sin is highly paradoxical.

What's the alternative? Eternal bliss for attempting, even though imperfect, to walk in the footsteps of Christ.

God doesn't hold sin against you if you repent.