Bug carroccio standard and siege

**Nanaki404** · August 19, 2011, 09:11 AM

Hello,

I've been wandering a bit on this forum, but this is my first post, so here is a short presentation :
I'm French (that could explain the grammar mistakes and maybe strange sentences), and I've been playing M2TW for 1 or 2 months now. I only have the vanilla version (without Kingdoms), and have not played any TW game before. So far, I've completed a short campaign with England on M/M, then a long one with France on M/M (and I conquered the whole world including Americas), then another long one with Moors on H/H, and I'm currently in a long campaign with Milan on VH/VH.

Anyway, here is what I discovered :
I was assieging some settlement with a full stack of hospitaliers, genoese crossbow militia, a FM and 3 carroccio standard. I had never used these carroccio standard before (my stacks usually contain hospitallier, crossbow, FMs, and a few italian spear militia), because I hate how artillery slows down your army on the campaign map. I had them as a result of a successful mission, so I decided to try them anyway.
So, I was attacking the settlement after having built 2 rams and nothing else. The game automatically assigned the rams to genoese, and I decided to give them to the carroccio crew instead (they are supposed to be better in melee). So 2 of my carroccio standard units dropped their standard and took the rams instead.
There comes the strange part : as soon as I started the battle, I lost, in the same way we lose sieges if every siege equipment is destroyed.
So, I guess that since carroccio crew are supposed to carry standard which are useless in siege, the game just ignore them, and ignored the rams the same way (since they were attached to the crew guys)...

I saved before, so I just had to reload and let the genoese carry the rams, but I thought I should share this experience (since I have never heard of such a bug before).

**Avatar** · August 19, 2011, 12:27 PM

I've not heard of this happening, but I believe that Caroccio standards are actually classified as siege units in the game. Possibly if you then equip them with a piece of siege equipment the game creates a "double negative" and cancels both siege items out.

**Jingo Eugene** · August 19, 2011, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Avatar

I've not heard of this happening, but I believe that Caroccio standards are actually classified as siege units in the game. Possibly if you then equip them with a piece of siege equipment the game creates a "double negative" and cancels both siege items out.

Exacltly Carrrocio stands are classified as "Light artillery", so putting them on a ram doesn't work.

**Aymer de Valence** · August 19, 2011, 04:50 PM

well it would have been nice of CA to include that in the unit description instead of us players finding out the hard way

**Jingo Eugene** · August 19, 2011, 10:08 PM

He had moved the ram to the Carroccio stand soldiers, they couldn't use two so both were eliminating, removing all of his siege equipment and lost the battle.

Originally Posted by Mercenary Crossbowman

well it would have been nice of CA to include that in the unit description instead of us players finding out the hard way

It says "Light Artillery" if you mouse over the unit.

**Nanaki404** · August 20, 2011, 03:21 AM

Originally Posted by Eugen von Savoyen

He had moved the ram to the Carroccio stand soldiers, they couldn't use two so both were eliminating, removing all of his siege equipment and lost the battle.

I may have misunderstood but they were not eliminated. On the "lost" panel, it said that I had like 3 lost soldiers. (Like, it happened to me that my ram was burned down quickly, with only like 5 dead soldiers, and the "lost" panel said 20 or so deaths. )

Anyway, I'll try something again, but I think that carroccio crew CAN carry a ram around.

I think the problem comes from here :
The game counts the number of siege equipment and artillery units to see if you can win the battle or not. Except that carroccio are artillery but they cannot help with the siege. So, I assume that (and it may be hard coded), carroccio are just ignored, so that you lose if you only have these (without other artillery or siege equipment) even if they're "artillery".

Has someone ever tried to give a ram to, say, a catapult crew ? What if your only artillery unit is a catapult and you have only one ram ?

**PrestigeX** · August 19, 2011, 04:57 PM

I'm confused as to why the battle was lost -- couldn't one of your Crossbowmen pushed the ram?

odd.

**Avatar** · August 20, 2011, 09:54 AM

Its possible to take any settlement at all with a single ram, because once you clear the first gate you can start pushing it again to get to the next one. Of course, this is stretching the definition of "possible" quite far, but even so theoretically you can take down a citadel that way. The only way you should automatically lose a siege is if you attack a citadel or fortress with a single siege tower.

Also, if you have even a single ballista or catapult in your attacking stack, then the game will let you attack any settlement so long as you dont run out of ammunition. If you run out of ammunition on your artillery before the last defensive ring is penetrated, and dont have ladders/rams etc, then you would instantly lose the battle.