Army composition & battle tactics

[CountMRVHS]

It was suggested in the "Ask Your Questions Here" thread that it might be interesting to see what people use for armies and tactics in FATW battles. In that thread I gave an indication of my typical/ideal RK army composition. Here, I'll get the ball rolling by saying a few words about tactics - and I hope others will chime in with their thoughts & tricks.

Since my RK armies tend to be foot-bound and include around 4 units of bowmen, I prefer to fight on the defensive, preferably on a gently-sloping hill with some open space for my few units of cav to do some flanking. My infantry force will usually deploy in a single line in shieldwall*, with a few reserve units behind each flank. The shieldwall, my main battle-line, is grouped so I can easily redeploy them after contact with the enemy.

*an exception to this is if you prefer to keep your troops more mobile to answer flanking attempts by the AI. If you're concerned about the enemy reaching your lines before you can shuffle around into position (as indicated below), it might be better to keep your line out of the shieldwall until the enemy approaches and seems ready to attack; then select them all, put 'em in shieldwall, and "drag" them into the position you want.

As Thangaror mentioned in the "Ask" thread, the AI tends to try to outflank the player. The best way I find to counter this is to move your battle-line slightly to the direction the AI army is moving. Select all troops, or the main battle-line, and alt-click them to a position to the right or left of their current location, and see what the AI does. Your line should maintain its current facing, and the AI will likely try to outflank you in the other direction. There may be some back-and-forth here on the AI's part, but once your bowmen begin firing, often the AI will give up trying to flank and move to attack.

This is an ideal scenario for the RK. Obviously, you want the enemy to attack you head-on, so your archers can remain protected behind your shieldwall and your infantry can all come to bear against the foe. From here, it's just a matter of using your reserve infantry units to outflank the engaged troops, or using your cav to engage the enemy cav (supporting them with your reserve infantry and captain). If need be, I will occasionally throw my archers into the fight, if the battle is progressing slowly and I'm not routing the enemy quickly enough.

Sometimes, though, the ideal scenario doesn't happen. If you're fighting Harad, you'll likely face lots of Scarlet Shield cav, which are the toughest foe for you to deal with apart from Mumakil. Massed cav formations can do a lot of damage if the AI uses them correctly, which does happen sometimes. So when I see lots of enemy riders (Harad seems to go for a 50/50 ratio of cav to inf), I will sometimes put all of my cav on one flank, rather than my usual tactic of splitting them up for each flank. Then I watch where the AI horsemen are trying to go. You'll often see them trying to get at your archers or generally trying to outflank. If the AI cav are split into 2 wings, get your own riders ready to attack the stronger wing.

This is where you have to be a bit more aggressive than I usually like with the RK: When the AI cav approaches (usually on one flank), engage with your own cav - all of your cav - and move your battle-line forward. You want to engage the AI battle-line quickly, so enemy infantry will not begin to cut down your own riders. Your reserve troops may need to aid your horsemen, and your captain will likely need to get into the scrum sooner than you'd like as well. The aim here is to seize the momentum to stop the AI from trying to get an advantage in position, and to drive off one wing of his cav, leaving your own riders free to intercept the other cav wing or begin charging into the melee.

Ultimately, any defensive scenario for the RK is aided by your longbowmen and general missile superiority. To that end, I like to have one or two of my archers using flaming arrows, to work at the enemy morale. And of course, aiming at the Scarlet Shields (or other cav) is a good idea.



Well, that's a quick-and-dirty rundown of my basic open field defense as the RK. Note I didn't mention units like catapults, Rangers, etc.... That's because the RK remains the one faction I have never completed in campaign, and so I rarely get to the point where I'm using the specialized units. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see if others have different ideas.

And let's not give the RK all the glory here. Any tactics or strategies for other factions will be fun to read too.

[Thangaror]

The Army of the Reunited Kingdom

My army focuses on heavy infantry, supported by cavalry and bowmen. I have several armies, about four main armies and some smaller ones. Main armies opetate in Nurnen, Harad, Lithlad. Lesser armies in Dunland, Rhovanion and the coast of Harad. The standard setup for the main army looks like this:

1 General
5 units Men at Arms
4 units King’s Spearmen
2 units the Guard of the Citadel
4 units King’s Longbowmen
2 units Gondorian Horsemen
2 units King’s Horsemen

GotC are just there for flavor. Since the armies are usually led by member of the Royal family they are supposed to serve as a bodyguard.

The Men at Arms form the first line of defense in standard formation. If the enemy decides to attack directly, they switch into shield wall. The Spearmen are positioned in the second line, flanked by the GotC and able to swiftly march through the MaA to block cavalry charges. Bowmen are placed behind the infantry, set in guard mode and loose formation. The left flank is protected by the Gondorian Horsemen, the right flank, the position of honour, is held by the King’s Horsemen.
The battle is opened by the bowmen, thinning the lines of the enemy, focusing at first on strong units like Great Axes of Rhûn or Corsairs. Also Harondor Swords, for I found that their javelins are quite dangerous. When the opponent’s infantry closes in, they start to weaken cavalry and archers. Horses are actually a good target for archers. Since my own archers form a longer line than my infantry, the enemy often tries to ride them down. Thus when the cavalry approaches, my spearmen run in front of the bowmen, but remain in second line somewhat set back from the front line.

The AI usually attacks the units at the wings and due to sheer numbers is able to envelope them with one single unit. Therefore I move my GotC to the gap between the Spearmen and the main battle line, ready to charge into the rear.

My own cavalry has then already been moved to wherever the enemy’s riders are about. The general usually marches to the left flank to support the weaker Gondorian Horsemen. One of the two King’s Spearmen that I had positioned on each flank, joins the fight to pin down the enemy cavalry, so that my own cavalry can interfere somewhere else. The remaining spearmen now can engage the enemy infantry. If at great odds or the AI heavily focuses on one flank, I might send both units of spearmen, or even withdraw one unit from the unengaged flank to assist or cover the unprotected flank. My cavalry should then have rooted or severely decimated the AI’s cavalry, so I move them around to assist the other cavalry wing or charge into the flank/rear of the infantry.

The archers stay away from the actual fight for the whole battle usually, shooting down other missile units, cavalry when unengaged, the Easterlings’ wains, and rooting units. It seldom happens, but they might run out of arrows. Then of course they’re send in to attack the infantry from the back.

The described setup is the one I use against the main foe Harad and also Adûnabâr. The basic setup of the army remains similar against other factions.
Against Adûnabâr some of the Spearmen should be replaced by Men at Arms.

It is advisable to increase the number of bowmen against Dunland. In my last campaign I had about six units of Longbowmen at Erindol and they ended up with two gold chevrons just sitting around there, butchering the barely armoured Dunlendings. Also heavy cavalry is not needed against these barbarians and but two units of light cavalry are enough to kill the cowards.
Against Rhûn I prefer to have more swordsmen than spearmen. Despite the fact that their cavalry is like Harad’s quite numerous, they are weaker and cannot launch such devastative charges.
I haven’t played many battles against Rohan. I think it might be a good idea to focus on archers and spearmen and but have two units of MaA and King’s Horsemen. Your cavalry won’t stand against the superb Riders of Rohan, but the King’s Spearmen are a terrible threat to them (this I know having fought many battles with Rohan against the RK).

[CountMRVHS]

Very interesting - I have a very similar setup, except that my front-line soldiers tend to be the King's Spearmen, and my MAA/Swords will either act as flankers or a reserve. But since the AI cav likes to target flanks, I can see how it would be beneficial to keep Spears ready in reserve to move where they are needed.

Totally agree with the advice about facing other factions. I also like the regularity of this army setup.

[Themea]

How shall I put this? Quite simply I am a viking. First and foremost. Cavalry? Who needs it? Sure it gets tedious running down enemy archers, but hey who cares?

For RK:

Battle lines are simple, four groups of spear men in the center flanked by swords with the white company and other archers falling in behind. And you're thinking flanking cavalry, and I think that my swordsmen made good bait didn't they? Yes I do indeed use this very simple ploy to great effect against the many horse riding cultures out there. However, this rather small contingent often gets trounced by the multitude, emphasis of multitude, of troops that Harad throws at me. Quite annoying. Then there's Aradan's sadistic idea of population happiness.... but I digress. Anyway that's pretty much the standard troop deoployment I use. Depending on the specific situation I may, I stress the word may, throw in one or two cavalry units, bodyguards notwithstanding,, or a few extra spears/bows/swords, again depending on the situation. 9/10 though the base group works just fine.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

I completed my first H/H RK campaign with something like this as my standard build:
5-7 cav
~5 heavy infantry
8-10 catapults

The catapults work wonders against the untermensch.

[Thangaror]

Dunland still is the toughest faction one can play in FA:TW (and I assume it’ll remain so if there won’t be bigger changes). Dunland has a variety of units, but not a single one that is really reliable. Also there are many units that fulfill a similar role on the battlefield: Hillmen, Wolfhunters (to a degree), Axes of the Wolf and Hillmen Warriors.
Dunland’s pikemen are quite useful against Rohan, but don’t stand a chance against the Reunited Kingdom’s wall of steel, this most efficient killing machine. Unfortunately the only units able to hold ground against other infantry are the Axemen, which are actually quite bad. Axes of the Wolf are quite good, but clearly lack a shield. The bowmen, though numerous, are of not much use against heavily armoured troops.

Thus, Dunland lacks three important abilities that are usually a key to victory: 1) units that can pin down the enemy’s battle-line or at least single units, 2) units able to thin out the lines of the enemy and 3) a strong counter force. Point 2) and 3) are fulfilled to a degree. Though the bowmen are not worth mentioning the Dunlendish skirmishers are quite capable and Dunland has various units that can serve as shock infantry. Still this is only infantry that lacks the speed and impact of cavalry.

In my opinion the most useful unit for Dunland are the Warhounds. Once unleashed these beasts won’t run away and are indeed able to keep a unit busy and away from the actual fight.
It’s somewhat hard, I think, to built up a good army with Dunland because there are so many possibilities and I haven’t really settled down on a composition.

The backbone is formed by Axemen and Elite Pikemen. They are supported by Axes of the Wolf or Hillmen in the early stages. Front line is formed by Wolfhunters that can support the flanks after they threw the javelins. Of course I have two units of Isenmarch Riders, though (again) they’re actually not of much use, not even to ride down King’s Longbowmen. During the last campaigns I had two units of bowmen in my army, but I think they’re better replaced by Huntsmen. Most important are the Hounds. They’re really useful and should be sent right at the start of the battle against cavalry and archers.

[Finrod Felagund]

An interesting discussion...

I used to play RK with the standard MaA fronting a group of Kings Longbowmen (or Rangers) with cavalry flanks. Standard, easy to win with.

Than I decided I was going to play it a bit different... I had perhaps two armies of your 'classic' set-up - the MaA, Kings Longbowmen, etc, these led by the King or his edling, the second by either of the Princes of Dol Amroth or Ithilien. My other armies were comprised of what I would describe as more 'regional' units. For instance, the far west of Gondor may raise Gondorian Swordsmen, Archers & Gondorian Horsemen. Not many mind, as this region is generally lowly populated & in actuality wouldn't be able to support a large, well trained & equipped force. They may be supported by some Blackroot Vale Bowmen & Dol Amroth MaA, but again, only a small force.

Similarly, there would be a Central Gondorian division with perhaps a few Rangers, some Lossarnach Axemen, swordsmen, etc. My intention was to not make the game too easy but to try & play as a feudal kingdom would actually be forced to deploy units. Tactics, in general, remain similar, but with divisions joining & dividing as suited to what is required. Local troops are therefore used more often, which in turn creates more of a challenge and variety.

It can get kind of boring as RK with awesome infantry, cavalry & artillery. Each battle becomes much of a muchness.

Then you have The Horse Lords. Lightening quick cavalry sniping followed up with a crashing charge

[Thangaror]

That's a really nice approach, Finrod.
Actually I end up with a similar setup. Against Dunland there's simply no need to muster MaA and Spearmen, so the army is comprised out of Swordsmen. Also I often have a small naval force out of Mariners, Longbowmen and later Harondor Swords that sack Haradrian cities. But during the course of the game they all turn into full-stacks.

I'm curious how useful Lossarnach Axemen are. I have recruited some and they're part of my naval forces, but I haven't found a real use for them.

[CountMRVHS]

I've used Lossarnach Axemen a few times - usually limited to that single unit you get at start. By the time I can actually train them, I've usually begun to want to play a different faction.

But they are good units. No shield, of course, so keep them away from Adunabar's longbows and missiles in general. IIRC they're AP units, which makes them a good candidate for a reserve. Wait until a heavily-armed foe engages your Spearmen or MAA, then send the Axemen round to flank.

In other factions they might be considered one of the elite troops you aim to build towards, but with the RK there are so many options that they are perhaps devalued relative to everything else.

Finrod, I like that approach. It's nice to make use of all the regional units, I think. My only difficulty would be building up to the point where that becomes possible, especially in the slower-growing Gondorian interior. But having regional-style, smallish armies might be a good way for me to keep interested in an RK campaign for longer than the time it takes to storm Harad's coastline and push back Adunabar.

[Thangaror]

I have to say, that campaign I'm playing right now is the first FATW-campaign I acutally won! Calembel, Ethring, Tarnost and even Thoronburg are large cities and fully developed. And it didn't take a long time, only three generations. And the game is still fun, though I cannot expand much further. The enemies' cities have become to big, I cannot maintain order even with a full-stack as garrison.

[Éorl]

Éorl's Rohan tactics.

In Rome vanilla I've come to love (and startle my friends with) all-cavalry armies. I simply have a knack for the mobile element. So, leading a Rohan army feels natural to me.

Army composition:

1 Bodyguard unit with family member
6-8 Riddermark Spears (those bastards with the two-handed lances) - frighten foot is invaluable in an all cavalry host!
6-8 Riders of the Mark (heavy cavalry)
0-7 mounted archers

most of my Rohan armies don't have full stacks of 20 units, but an average of 10. I usually fight armies that outnumber me on average 5 to 1, often even more.

Fighting such huge armies is the most fun, especially if they have lots of infantry. Good quality archers are a pain, though!

Here's what I usually do:

1. Deployment

I almost always us the deny-a-flank deployment. That is, I deploy my cavalry in a single line on the extreme left or right half of my deployment area. This is the best position to outflank, outmaneuver and mess around with the enemy's battle formation. The most hardy units are deployed on the flank that is nearest to the enemy force, the light units on the opposite flank that is farthest away from the enemy force.

2. Battle

Speed and flexibility is the real strength of an all-cavalry army. You have to avoid getting bodgged down in melee, you have to maneuver and aggressively dictate where the fighting takes place, and you have to charge, and charge, and charge (and withdraw in between charges, of course).

When you maneuver, always have an eye on the enemy force's reaction, and then use that. For instance, in the battle report I posted in the Preview Screenie thread, I moved a couple of mounted archers around the enemy's flank, not just to fire at them, but more importantly to provoke a reaction which I could take advantage of.

Usually, I move to threaten a flank to provoke a counter-reaction. The goal is to disrupt the enemy's battle line before even considering a charge. Another option is to feint to provoke the flank, let the enemy force get almost in charge distance, then turn and haste towards the opposite side. One or two such maneuvers or a combination thereof usually suffice to disrupt the opposing battle line. Look out for isolated units on the flanks - usually the lighter ones, and charge those first with multiple units. The goals is to get them running. Don't bother pursuing, yet! Withdraw quickly and re-group. Then charge another isolated unit, or maneuver again if the opposing battle line used the time to form up again.

This tactic works even against well disciplined infantry/spear armies like RK or Adun. The only fly in the soup can be archers - these my inhibit your maneuverability and your ability to charge, withdraw, and charge again.

Maybe I'll set up some example battles and post the tactics as preview screenies...

[Spike]

The evil guide on using haradrim's (mostly) meat-shield armies

Harad has actually the second best cavalry, after Rohan of course (I consider this a bit weird since it actually should be the Variags (or Rhun), but we all know Rhun lack good Charging cavalry (teh riders of Rhun are good, but no lance? no formation breaking on impact ) and we all also know that Horsemen of Harnen as well as their more expensive comrades, Scarlet shields come in very handy when doing charging in the back things.

so, the key of your win as Harad is Cavalry, basically they can be drawn into several functions:
- Horsemen of Harnen : have large unit numbers, good charges, good speed and most importantly, they're not that easy to rout compare with the rest of your inferior morale troops. Those tough and numerous guys are your most cost-effective troops, especially on patrolling the frontiers, it's important especially if you built that caravan things that give them extra experience, but if you prefer the much cooler (but a little more expensive) scarlet shields, built yer nobody-expect Haradrian Inquisition.
- Scarlet Shields : cool, scary, and will usually fight well. Their only weakness is they usually coming pretty late and usually you won't train them outside haradrim proper. Grab them if you can, but try to stick more with Harnen Horsemen, since the later are much more widely available.
- Plainsmen mounted skirmishers : they are good light cavalry, useful for Chasin away those ever pesky bald men with topknots from the east who shoot arrows on top of horsies (the variag outriders of course), much less useful when chasing the Rohirrim equivalent (the Rohan HA will still slaughters them in melee, for somewhat reasons). These men coming in really huge numbers for cavalry, and has javelins, so at least, they can throw something for their sidework, when facing certain "you touch, you die" wall of men at arms or adunabar's evil men at arms aka swords of da shadow. The another upside of these men are, they're completely cheap n expandable, so they also can function identically with Haradwaith riders as well.
- Haradwaith : total useless, luckily, they're the mobile meat cushions or, train at your own risk, actually, these guys didn't fare much better in melee compared with their skirmisher brethren (yes, they're better in melee, only sightly, and total useless against anything that wasn't dunlending/rhun bowmen or routing units) and hey, hey, they also rout pretty fast... as I said, they're pretty useful if you need something expandable and fast (and plainsmen mounted skirmishers are also have that quality). Let's keep in mind that attacking Men At Arms from the back for these guys is certain suicide - they apparently die even when those tough guys just show their back and swung their sword backwards liks chuck norris, well, we all know that Gondorian MAA and their evil clones are Chuck Norrises.

And here's yer meaty shield aka Haradian infantry, that... well, some did worth mentions but basically they are meatshields.

- Footmen of Harad : your lowest-grade meatshields, yes, they lost even to some stray orcs produced by Adunabar, and even Dunlendings will laugh at them . put them in the front, one or two unit only, and let them do their worth, absorbing arrows while your archers do their skirmishin job. when the enemies try to attack your archers, withdraw your archers, but let those poor guy (footmen) rout and die, they're worthless otherwise. Use them as garrison troops ONLY on low-invasion-risk settlements like umbar and nearby, if you need garrison troops, spears of Harad and Harandor swords are more worth, even when they have higher upkeep. Oh almost forgot to mention, these guys are really useful in siege, just sent one two or three unit of them and let em absorb missiles, while your other troops march with the ram and ladders (towers are too slow, build ladders if you can!)
- Spears of Harad : basically, your better, and if you play well, these guys should form the bulk of your army.even when they're basically lost to anything that isn't Rhun warband or dunlendings, at least they can do some real hold on the line. They are far from front rank soldiers of Gondor, Adunabar, Rohan, Rhun (well? axemen of Rhun is darn good), so never put them on the frontline UNLESS you're facing cavalry heavy army. Put them mostly on the second line as supports, Harandor Swords is better frontline troops for obvious reasons.
- Harandor Swords : javelins - swords and basically decent enough for their price, true, they ain't Dunedain Swordsmen, but they'll outclass every other non dunedain factions mainline troops. They should got more respect than spears of harad have, at least they can do some real killings unless facing cavalry troops. And while Corsairs outclass them in melee, at least they have shields and won't die like flies from arrows.
- Corsairs : looks badass, but it's only skin deep unless they got 6 exp, and they'll go real badass. Those guys still die like flies on arrows, and best used for flanking troops, not frontline troops. Of course, if ya feelin evil, use em as frontline troops and they'll do their job as long as yer enemies not fieldin much bowmen. Use them in conjunction with spears of Harad if you can, the later is obviously for absorbing cavalry impact and arrows, and let the corsairs do the real killings.
- Spears of Da Serpent : the most dependable regular troops of Harad, coming up sightly late but they make up with their good stats. Train them if you can but harandor swords may be better if you facing certain conditions. (javelin kills is Harandor's speciality, if these spears of da serpent guuys have javelins, their ranks go to badass)
- Umbar guard : so rarely use them in campaign, the startin unit just spent their days sittin at home for tea in Umbar. Standing at teh palace with their overpolished armor. In few battles they're involved though, these guys often proves their worth by becoming anchor at the edge of the line, but hey, Spears of Da Serfent do almost the same, and there's moar of dem!

Let's not forget about archers, all Haradian archers are actually good to have no matter what varieties you had, just never sent em in melee. Just remember, skirmishers are no good since you're not facin mumaks *except you're facing trolls trollin yer army, sent a desert skirmisher to deal with them. Plainsmen skirmishers? no worth, just disband them and enroll em back as spears of harad.

speaking about trolls, the half trolls of far harad are useful only on city combat, yeah, use them when assaulting enemies on melee on the road inside of settlements, otherwise, they're easy prey for arrows and cavalry, even with their attacks.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

tactics is generally simple, put yer infantry in two line, the first one being the tougher, and cavalry on the flanks, simple hammer + anvil, just remember your anvil isn't made of iron but sponge. time is your priority, do not wait to tire enemies out, your infantry may rout first! this is true especially against RK!

[TheDarkKnight]

Reunited Kingdom:

(Ideal) Field Army
2 King's Spearmen/Militia
6-7 Longbows/Bowmen
8-10 Men at Arms/Swordsmen/Mariners
2-3 Cavalry units (whether horsemen, generals, or King's Horsemen) I only ever have three when I have a general.
2 Lossarnach Axemen (Optional)

I leave the archers in front as long as I can, firing at the enemy until they run out of arrows or have to flee melee. The sword wielding men form a strong line a little longer than the line of archers, with the 2 spear units on each flank at an angle to protect the archers when they fall back. Also on these flanks I leave the cavalry, and if I have a general, I leave him in the center.

Generally, I have found that the sword-wielding warriors can withstand cavalry attacks fairly well, which is why I leave the spear units on the flanks.

If I expect to be fighting trolls or other armored units, and I have Lossarnach axemen, I leave them behind the main line, ready to charge the armored units.

[Isas]

I agree with Strategos Lykos when it comes to Harad. They seriously field a devastating cavalry - especially the Scarlet Shields are fearsome.

We still lack some tactics here - I didn't play this mod for long, a week to be exact, but I had my share of Total War battles over the years so I at least got some basic stuff that helped me survive on that crazy game I played with Rhûn the first time. I needed 5 spies to at least get a good guess of what the heck I'm facing in this mod as Rhûn starts in some seriously huge and empty area that sucks for new players that don't use toggle_fow or know the map. But well, that's another story.

I found Rhûn (H/VH) really interesting as their core cities cover a huge area and I got some loyalty revolts that rendered me free cities without fights and cheap garrisons with maximum loyalty. (And they freaking had 3 silver bars and gold armor / weapons - where the hell did they get that?) In general, it's easier to autoresolve with your horde-units at the start. I tried to do some battles manual like the dwarves and have some painful memories of a crazy 70 men strong dwarven unit taking on 1700 hordesmen head on. I'd have s*it my pants as well when 1000 men die around me from those tiny bearded monsters.

Now to the tactics.

Against Harad in the south:

As Harad consists of a world of pain with javelins, bows and freaking heavy cavalry with bows (the hell?), I found the best tactic to fight fire with fire. Rhûn fields the most incredible long ranged mounted bowman you'll find except the dragonshield cavalry and maybe some late-tech units I didn't encounter so far. They are fast, they have a lot of stamina, their unitsize is 80, which makes a nice long battleline and a lot of skirmishes possible, they shoot far enough to take Harad long-range archer head on and they are rather cheap with an uphold of 200, or 260 for the noblemen. Plus, I found Harad noblemen to be scared of fights they will likely lose. Though they fight any fight on the map, they tend to run without any fight on the battlefield, which makes mounted bowman extremly strong against them in chase-battles.

My map consists of battlemarks for heroic battles of thousands of Herads men. My biggest fight was 2800 against 1000 of mine and I won with 58 losses of which I caused 40 myself. Though I have to admit that their scarlet shields ran away after both generals died in my trap-setup.

mtd archer___mtd archer___mtd archer___mtd archer___mtd archer
____mtd archer____mtd archer____mtd archer____mtd archer____

spearmen___spearmen___spearmen___spearmen
___axemen___axemen___


Cavarly___________________________________________________________Cavalry

That's the basic for my main-army. Both lines of archer are spread to 3 rows and stand extremly close to each other. Skirmish is off, I do that manually on very hard as the AI sometimes uses their units right and lures you into painful friendly fire. Between those archers and those spearmen is just enough space to skirmish a short step back if they should decide to stop their charge and to avoid you standing in your spearmen. At first you'll be forced to use those squishy archers that deal a s*itload of damage but they have nearly no armor and die like flies if used wrong. This setup is a trap. Everything it does is make the enemy charge you at the flanks, you skirmish and all that's left is 6 infantry units in the middle that will get stormed.

There are still 3 units left. I tend to use a general or maybe even two on those 3 open spots for 2 apparent reasons:
1. Rhûns ranged fighting traps for noblemen are some painful addition as they fill the gap in the very weakness my setup has against Harad: The heavy cavalry. If you let the spearmen take the charge (and prolly die as Rhûn only fields squishy spearmen at least if you compare them to others), you can wipe any heavy cavalry unit with some panic-clicks around, letting your wayns cause not just tremendous fear but raising the moral of your own units that should take a lot of damage in a direct confrontation there.
2. A good chosen general with some nice moral traits raises the moral just the amount one will prolly need to survive a full-out-charge with only those units. But be careful with Rhûn generals - they are useless in the wilderness and anything with obstacles on the map like woods or rocks, you'll have to check exactly where your army stands before a big fight if you take them with you.

There are some very important hints about using this setup. I never, ever focus Scarled Shields. It's a waste of ammunation, it's a waste of precious time before the charge comes and it'll render you less kills while making those shot angry and maybe chasing your bowmen around the map while they are needed in the real fighting.
I use the mobility of the bowmen to my advantage. Fast changes of formation, and even moving formations while fighting. When the enemy charges at me head on, I take a deep breath, fall back and form a semicircle, while skirmishing. It's important to always focus on the moving, routing or fighting enemies as those shielded Harads take less damage standing around. Else it's the usual archer drill - enemy archers coming in range first, followed by light infantry like Harandor Swords and numerous meatshields like Footmen of Harad which the AI will use in fearsome masses, followed by light cavalry and the general unit if it's moving. Any heavy cavalry has to be either avoided or lured into the fight with your infantry. The tricky part is that Harad general units are extremly hard to catch, being ranged themselves and heavily armored mounted units. If they engage my spearmen, I use the axemen to try and circle, use their strong warcry and charge in from behind or the flanks, causing a lot of damage extremly fast. Though they can't take much damage, they can deal it double time. And well - the cavalry does what the cavalry does. Wherever it is needed, whenever it is needed. Fast reponse or to stop an overwhelming attack and stall some time for the bowmen to do their job or to simply avoid massive routing.

Now - as the more experienced players will have noticed: This setup does not work against the powerful warmachine of the Harad that can massproduce stacks. That's why I use smaller "mounted-bowmen-only" armies with maybe 1-2 light or (if you have it at this point) heavy cavalry and 5-7 mounted bowmen, that will hit-and-run anything it can, advancing deep into enemy territory and taking out armies before they are stacked, killing off nobles before they reach the frontlines and sieging settlements (only siege) to draw attention to them.
I'm playing the Rhûn like some kind of mongolian raider party, making the life of the Harad miserable in the defence and the offence alike. Sometimes it's even great when you shoot off all your arrows, flee the battle, get chased on the worldmap and wipe a former 1200 men strong army with just skirmishing tactics. Though I already had to run in circles for 45 minutes when facing too many heavy armored units at once.

This will allow any Rhûn to build its actually powerful economy and to prepare for the invasion of Adûnabâr. For them I prefer a usual and pretty much normal mixture of some noble mounted bowmen to counter those royal longbowmen and a strong infantry, as my Harad tactics do nothing against the well armored units of Adûnabâr. So far I found a mixture of spearmen, dark helmets and great axemen with some heavy cavalry, a general and used terrain advantages like snow and woods as much as possible useful. I'm sure that if a player manages to either befriend Harad or occupy their territories, Rhûn is able to simply overwhelm Adûnabâr and the Reunited Kingdom with numbers in their heavy infantry.

The only thing I'm clueless about is Rohan. A really strong Rohan army might be the worst case for the Rhûn, except I'm missing out some uber-spearmen one might build later on (with Minas Ithil Royal Spearmen and some Royal Bowmen maybe). I didn't try out the berserkers so far though - might be good shocktroops and a good filler for one of the last 3 spots of my setup against Harad. But for now I'm using 1 additional cavalry and 2 generals to somehow balance my biggest weakness.


Cheers~

[Ajidica]

Since it will take your forever to get Royal Spearmen as Rhun, you should just focus on breeding family members as fast as possible and using their wains against Rohirric cavalry. Wains slice through cavalry like a hot knife through butter.

Do you have any tips on using warcry units properly? I've never been able to do that. Either they warcry too late and they caught without being able to use their charge, or I warcry too soon and they are no more effective then they are un-warcryed.

EDIT: I agree with you on the strength of the dwarven miners though. They shouldn't be able to eat a unit of Men at Arms like it is a light snack.

[Isas]

Yeah, I agree with you, that's why I actually take two of those wains with me. It's the first army-setup in which I have more than one nobleman with me to counter cavalry (since I wiped myself just through lost family members in Medieval Total War more than once, I usually kinda avoid that). I always hated wains in Total War, but those Rhûn ones are really useful if you position them right. I tend to put them at the flanks in the back with the cavalry - prolly a bit closer as they move much slower, though their positioning really depends on the terrain I'm fighting on.

Well, that's the mainreason why I have axemen and swordmen always behind spearmen or in between them. I pause often, so with a few exceptions where I really get overrun or too much heavy cavalry breaks through, I get them to warcry properly for their devastating charge. If I have the time, I try to get them from behind.
I guess you know that but when the warcry is underway, you can already double click on the enemy and they'll do the rest themselves.
If you have them on a broad frontline of infantry and the enemy charges at you - it's best to use warcry some moments before the enemy blows his horns for the attack (if you are on a hill, it should be alright when you hear the horns) - I somehow do that naturally. But it doesn't always work. Sometimes I underestimate the speed of some light infantry and they hit my army before I can charge or I doze off and don't pause. Although those Harandor Swords always try to throw their javelins at you which is the right moment to just storm them while they try to grab their spears, put them above their heads, aim and then they should have some two handed battleaxe in their face which should shake their morale hard.

Though in my setup against Harad, I never really fight them head-on - my cavalry engages the enemy right off the bat and weakens them before they get to the slow infantry. If I'm doing a good job, I have all the time I need as they are shaken when they see my battleline up front. With one exception I managed to kill off all the Harad noblemen that tried to get to the front with my raider-parties, so I'm mostly fighting (freaking full stacked) Lieutenants that have a low morale to begin with. If you raise the strategic difficulty to very hard, things might turn out different if you got some 7-star-general up front against you.

Against the spearmen and heavy infantry of Abun, you should be able to time it just fine. Their light infantry was always tired when they reached my lines so far, so I didn't have any problems with them either.


@breeding royal spearmen

Off-Topic-Drop-Down

So far, I never saw Rohan survive my advance west. They always got eaten alive by Dunland in my games, so I thought that if they should manage to survive when I get to Minas Ithil as Rhûn, I'd be able to get those royal spearmen up and running before even being forced to face off Rohan? Maybe I'm playing a bit slower turn-wise than you, but I really don't know how someone could manage Harad with Rhûn "fast" anyway. I lost count after 20.000 men of them and I only took four settlements so far. Their wealthy cities west are still up and running and make my own turns really long with 5-8 battles each, especially as they throw some silver armor / weapon infantry at me. The only thing slowing them down is the plague. And the fight against Abun doesn't make my life much easier, though I got the north except one borderland between Dunland and me and should be able to take Minas Ithil soon or die trying as retraining my losses has become tricky business through the sheer distance to my core cities. Maybe I'll go over to some Harad genocide, simply destroying their economy through raiding their cities and killing them all. I tried to take their economy intact so far, might be the wrong approach.

[Thangaror]

You cannot recruit King's Spearmen or Royal Spearman as Rhûn, Harad or Dunland. With Rohan you can recruit Longbowmen, but no Spearmen IIRC.
The best thing against Rohan are bowmen nevertheless. Recruit Khandian Noble Archers (not the mounted ones), they are quite capable against cavalry in melee due to their spears.
I think one of the reasons why the Rohan AI gets screwed so easily is that the AI does not focus on cavalry but recruits the weaker infantry. And also I seldom see Rohan recruiting RoTM and Riddermarks en masse but more light cavalry.

[Éorl]

Also, the battle AI is decidedly dumber than dumb when it has to command all-cavalry armies...

[CountMRVHS]

Ah, Rhun - maybe my favorite faction! There's some great advice here, so I don't have a lot to add - except to say that assaulting MT was without a doubt the toughest experience in my last Rhun campaign. Because of pride, I refused to autocalc or just wait it out, and as a result I think I had to try twice - so be sure to bring several good armies along (this is generally the case with any faction fighting against the RK).

Cav and wains won't help you in a siege, really, so you'll want a mostly infantry army (led by a FM with good morale boni - preferably one of the Dragonshield BGs, so he can more easily manoeuvre in the city) focusing on Darkhelms, Great Axes, the usual. MT (and many AI cities) tend to be under-garrisoned, but the towers will wreck you as you approach the gates, so some expendable-ish units are best for siege tower duty - Spearmen, I think.

Strategically, it's good to have your siege army/armies accompanied by one or two "field" stacks, with plenty of Khandian troops for the HAs, Rhun Noble cav, Wain FMs, and a decent, mobile mix of infantry (I like a few Berserkers, but don't go overboard). Stay away from bridge battles, as the RK will just push its way through your lines and you've sacrificed your mobility; instead, park these field armies on fields, roads or, at most, lightly-wooded tiles so you can work your archery and charges.

Of course, if the RK has a few Longbowmen, you're in trouble. The only chance here is to use terrain in your favor and use your heavy cav (if you brought enough) to wear them down, or at least distract them while your other units try to isolate and kill the RK infantry. Forget static battle-lines; you want to draw the RK formation apart (by threatening with your heavy cav), shoot at the (right) flank and rear with your HAs and archers, surround with your war-crying infantry, and charge, charge, charge with your cav, all the while using your wains to cause fear and, ideally, kill the enemy general. Even with all of this, you'll find that you may lose some battles and your wins will be very bloody. Like Harad, Rhun must depend on strategic production of hordes of troops to swamp the enemy - at least against a strong RK.

Rohan often survives in my games, expanding into Rhovanion - but their armies are always a mix of relatively cheap cav and inf, making them an easy target for your wains, archers, and noble cav.

[Isas]

Ah! That's why they screw up. Like written in the other thread, I really think Rohans all-cavalry-army with some infantry for sieges in seperate stacks is great for routing and stomping Dunland and Eorls tactic really does the trick with some patience.

Ah, Rhun - maybe my favorite faction! There's some great advice here, so I don't have a lot to add - except to say that assaulting MT was without a doubt the toughest experience in my last Rhun campaign. Because of pride, I refused to autocalc or just wait it out, and as a result I think I had to try twice - so be sure to bring several good armies along (this is generally the case with any faction fighting against the RK).

Noooooooooooooooooo - why did you write that?! My plan was to simply use my mobility on defence duty to starve them out in 9 turns. Now my pride kicks in and I'll do that manually. I don't want that but... the force... is too strong... I must... Dargh! Goddammit, I'll regret that. Those masochistic suicide attacks are the main reason that I never finish any campaign but stop like two or three provinces before I meet the winning conditions and play another faction.

Cav and wains won't help you in a siege, really, so you'll want a mostly infantry army (led by a FM with good morale boni - preferably one of the Dragonshield BGs, so he can more easily manoeuvre in the city) focusing on Darkhelms, Great Axes, the usual. MT (and many AI cities) tend to be under-garrisoned, but the towers will wreck you as you approach the gates, so some expendable-ish units are best for siege tower duty - Spearmen, I think.

Yepp, I always use spearmen to get that battering ram to its target on the wall or gate. Though I gotta admit that heavy cavalry is the best to push into the gate in my eyes. Sieges are so-so for me as my own and my enemies pathfinding in the city streets often leads to very strange outcomes of the fight and I sometimes wonder how I lost so many units against so few.

If the city gate is like

______..............______
|Tower|..............|Tower|
¯¯¯¯¯|..............|¯¯¯¯¯
|..............|
|_______|
|Gate|
¯¯¯¯

I prefer taking out a wall as you'll have a bigger opening and the pathfinding of the AI is way better than on a gate as they get stuck easily and pushed out if they face spearmen and heavy infantry. If that is happening I really like to have one or two stacks heavy cavalry. Even if they die, they are strong "pushers" and break enemy formations in front of the gate to give greater access to your troops. Plus, if you are lucky and got tunnels (are there tunnels in Fourth Age anyway? I don't think I used any up to this point - didnt manually besiege stonewalls so far, I think), heavy cavalry is the best to storm right into the newly opened hole and taking the wall and keeping some defenders busy with skirmish tactics while your infantry approaches. Once inside it shouldn't be much of a problem if there isn't any big garrison.
If I'm unlucky and there are 1000 well trained men with their backs on the wall awaiting me, I'd take a second army stack with me anyway. *cough*

Though I still have no idea of Minas Tirith. I hope it's just a special town without any inner, inner-inner and inner-far-up-inner-inner walls and towers. Doh. And those Longbowmen on the walls - owww... nooo, I don't want to. Same goes for Minas Ithil.

I really like to read about the thoughts and tactics of other players. So - any thoughts on Adûnabâr? I'm really interested if you guys just use the Reunited Kingdom army compositions on them or shift to Uruk-Hai and shadow-cultish stuff in your battles. I didn't play them so far and Dunland is higher up my list for now as I want to try out those warhounds and their nice remote location.


Cheers~