Romani Tips

[Stingray970]

Hey guys, I just installed Europa Barbarorum again, and all my old saves are gone.

I wanted to play a campaign as the Romani, but I'm a little confused about how to go about it.

What I do is conquer the two southern Italy provinces, Sicily, the two Islands off the coast of Italy, and the three rebel Northern Italy provinces.

The first time my army was composed of [1 General] [10 Principes] [5 Hellenic Archers] [2 Equite Calv (the one without the javelins)] [Optional: Governer for province I conquer]

Is that an okay army? I won every battle with that. I'm thinking that one army might not be enough. How many should I have? I was thinking 2 or 3.

Then, which direction should I expand? The first time, I was expanding into Gaul, but that was a massive pain in the ass. All my troops had to slowly cross land to retrain in Italy. I think that expanding into Carthaginian territory might be easier, as ships can quickly bring troops back to Italy.

Or, should I turtle up until 242 for the Polybian reforms? I normally finish my listed conquering by around 255-250. I'm thinking this would be the best route, as it would allow me to really polish my economy, and hammer Gaul or North Africa with the new troops.

All help is appreciated!

[Lordinquisitor]

Ofc you can use the units you want, but 10 Principes? That`s pretty ahistoric. I usually go with 3 Hastati, 3 Principes and 3 Triari and use locals to augment that army. (And i have conquered Iberia, North africa, italy, sicily, those islands in between, gallia cisalpina and the coastlands between italy and iberia.)

Well, i`d first conquer those northern italian provinces and the rest of italy. Then i`d conquer sicily and the islands to the west. From then on you should be able to expand wherever you want- North africa, iberia, greece, gaul whatever.

Use as many armies as you need and as you can afford. At the moment one army to conquer the north of italy and a few turns later some troops to conquer south italy should be enough.

[Entropy Judge]

What I do is conquer the two southern Italy provinces, Sicily, the two Islands off the coast of Italy, and the three rebel Northern Italy provinces.

That's usually what I do in my Roman games, although the order is a bit different - Taras, Rhegion, Bononia and Liguria, Patavium, then Syracuse, then Messana and Lilibeo, finishing off with Sardinia and Corsica. Sometimes I'll get Mediolanum and the northernmost Illyrian city as well.

The first time my army was composed of [1 General] [10 Principes] [5 Hellenic Archers] [2 Equite Calv (the one without the javelins)] [Optional: Governer for province I conquer]

Is that an okay army? I won every battle with that. I'm thinking that one army might not be enough. How many should I have? I was thinking 2 or 3.

That's certainly an okay army, although Toxotai are pretty useless (seriously, just wait until you can hire a couple of Cretan Archer mercenaries instead of training Toxotai ... they're the worst archers in the game), and Romans don't really need Cavalry (and they're fairly useless in city battles anyway).

Personally, I'd drop the number of Principes a bit (6-8), add some Swordsmen (Bruttians [especially if you've fixed them] or Samnite Heavies/Pedites), and maybe use some Hastati, as they are pretty good units.

How many armies you want really depends on how quickly you want to expand and how you do expand. Unless you're using BI or Alex, you can pretty much assume that Carthage won't be launching any amphibious assaults once you kick them off Sicily, so you should be able to safely garrison it with cheap levies (Akontistai!), likewise with the two Isles. One of the reasons I like to take Mediolanum is that its position leads it to be a fort-city you can use to block the Gauls from attacking your weaker cities (and because Neitos and Brihentin are great auxiliaries). Anyway, unless I'm expanding in multiple directions (IE, Gaul and Illyria), I use two armies - one main army I use for actually doing the dirty work, and a reserve army in case I stick my head in a sausage grinder. In the early game (solidifying my hold on the Italian Peninsula) I just work with one army, though - I'm still building my economy and there aren't any real threats to worry about.

Then, which direction should I expand? The first time, I was expanding into Gaul, but that was a massive pain in the ass. All my troops had to slowly cross land to retrain in Italy. I think that expanding into Carthaginian territory might be easier, as ships can quickly bring troops back to Italy.

Gaul is a pretty good one, although you have to use Regionals or Mercenaries for a lot of it, and the Regionals you get aren't the best (Gaeroas are sturdy, but lack enough punch to make effective killers; Neitos and Brihentin are great, but too far up the tech tree for easy use). I usually hit Illyria first, and take at least the top three cities, which gives me good trade, some nice Illyrian auxiliaries, and (VERY important) lots of Mines to increase income. Carthage can wait - they aren't going anywhere, and if you want to attack them, hit them in Spain first so you can also deal with the Lusotannans and take even more mines.

Or, should I turtle up until 242 for the Polybian reforms? I normally finish my listed conquering by around 255-250. I'm thinking this would be the best route, as it would allow me to really polish my economy, and hammer Gaul or North Africa with the new troops.

I usually turtle in Unified Italy until the Reforms kick in, but part of it is wanting to deal with AIs that are at least partially settled in and ready for a fight.

[Stingray970]

The calv are for running down routers. While I enjoy the chevrons it gives ol Scipio, I'd prefer not fighting the same army again later.

Any reason why I should add some swords? I know Principes use spears, but they're listed as heavy infantry, so I don't think they get the spear penalty versus normal infantry. The all principe thing was for efficiency. Not expensive enough to destroy your economy, have pila, good stats, and can recruit them in most of your homeland regions early.

I don't want to destroy all my enemies while they're still weak, so waiting would be a good idea? And by Unified Italy, do you mean just Italy, or Sicily and other Islands? To be honest, a got a bit inpatient and started today without waiting. But that sounds like a great idea, so I want to know what you mean to see if I should restart.

On the topic of Cretans, if I conquer Crete, can I recruit them from Levy? Or are they mercenary only? The Toxotai did seem a bit useless, but I was convinced they would help in Siege Battles. They didn't, but I already had them, so I kept them.

[Entropy Judge]

Any reason why I should add some swords? I know Principes use spears, but they're listed as heavy infantry, so I don't think they get the spear penalty versus normal infantry. The all principe thing was for efficiency. Not expensive enough to destroy your economy, have pila, good stats, and can recruit them in most of your homeland regions early.

They do; it's an engine penalty imposed by the attribute, not the weapon, and they have the attribute.

I don't want to destroy all my enemies while they're still weak, so waiting would be a good idea? And by Unified Italy, do you mean just Italy, or Sicily and other Islands? To be honest, a got a bit inpatient and started today without waiting. But that sounds like a great idea, so I want to know what you mean to see if I should restart.

Unified Italy is all of Italy, Sicily, and S&C.

On the topic of Cretans, if I conquer Crete, can I recruit them from Levy? Or are they mercenary only? The Toxotai did seem a bit useless, but I was convinced they would help in Siege Battles. They didn't, but I already had them, so I kept them.

You can recruit them from the Regional Barracks in Crete. The Merc Version has slightly better Armour.

[Rhomphaiaphoros]

I know Principes use spears, but they're listed as heavy infantry, so I don't think they get the spear penalty versus normal infantry. The all principe thing was for efficiency.

They do; it's an engine penalty imposed by the attribute, not the weapon, and they have the attribute.

That said, the penalty does not really matter, at least in this particular case. If you doubt this, we can examine the overall stats of Camillan Hastati and Principes here in-depth:

Camillan Hastati have a melee attack of 11 with a lethality of 0.1 only. Their total defence is 20.

Camillan Principes have a melee attack of 14 with a lethality of 0.13. Their total defence is 22.

Now, the "light_spear" attribute of Principes does reduce their defence by 4, making it only 18 (and thus lower than the total defence of Hastati).

However, Principes still have an attack value of 14, which is clearly superior to the 11 of the Hastati's. Moreover, the Principes' spears have a higher lethality, which makes them even stronger (in offensive terms) than Hastati.

And here comes the crux: in the RTW battle system, attack value matters a lot more than defence. If you doubt this, simply go test it by modifying a few vanilla units. I have run numerous such tests myself before I started playing EB, and I'll give here an example:

Suppose you have 2 different units, unit A and unit B. Unit A has an attack value of 10 and a defence value of 5, and unit B has an attack value of 5 and a defence value of 10. Pit them against each other in a fair fight, and unit A will always win, no exceptions to that. I'm not good at maths, so I'm not good at spotting formulae either, but I'd say that 3 points of attack matter roughly as much as 5 points of defence in close combat (but even that is oversimplified), and that's why the result is what it is.

And yes, I know the situation I described is not entirely similar than the one with Camillan Hastati and Principes, but it's comparable. So the higher attack and lethality values of Principes make them better than Hastati, even against infantry. The +2 defence of Hastati is simply overshadowed by the greater offensive power of Principes.

All that said, I can think of a situation in which Hastati might fare better than Principes. That situation is when the unit gets flanked. Flanked Principes may get their butts kicked faster than flanked Hastati, because of the defence values. On the other hand, Principes would make better flankers than Hastati, because of the higher offensive power I keep mentioning.

So all in all, Principes are a clearly superior and more cost-effective unit. I admit I still use Hastati for historical roleplaying reasons, though. But if cost-effectiveness is all that matters, Principes are almost always a better option.

- Rhomphaiaphoros

[Samariten]

Hey guys, I just installed Europa Barbarorum again, and all my old saves are gone.

I wanted to play a campaign as the Romani, but I'm a little confused about how to go about it.

What I do is conquer the two southern Italy provinces, Sicily, the two Islands off the coast of Italy, and the three rebel Northern Italy provinces.

The first time my army was composed of [1 General] [10 Principes] [5 Hellenic Archers] [2 Equite Calv (the one without the javelins)] [Optional: Governer for province I conquer]

Is that an okay army? I won every battle with that. I'm thinking that one army might not be enough. How many should I have? I was thinking 2 or 3.

Then, which direction should I expand? The first time, I was expanding into Gaul, but that was a massive pain in the ass. All my troops had to slowly cross land to retrain in Italy. I think that expanding into Carthaginian territory might be easier, as ships can quickly bring troops back to Italy.

Or, should I turtle up until 242 for the Polybian reforms? I normally finish my listed conquering by around 255-250. I'm thinking this would be the best route, as it would allow me to really polish my economy, and hammer Gaul or North Africa with the new troops.

All help is appreciated!

Me myself dont expand to far with camillan units. Though they are pretty good as they get more chevrons. If you expand into Gaul be sure to be allied with one of the gaulish faction first. Be careful if you expand the land way to Spain through Massalia. It got me into war with Aedui, Lusotani and Carthage at the same time and got a two front war as i took Emporion. Dont forget to have a regular replenish line from the front back to Italy. That is send back legions that need to retrain and have fresh ones to arrive at the front. Invading north Africa might be an idea but do not expand further north then just have a legion stationed in cisalpine gaul. I went for Spain first but ended up in counqering Gaul. Dont rush and build up economy in Italy and wait for the polybian reform to happen aswell. Good luck.

[The Kybrothilian]

In my Romani campaign, I have so far conquered southern Italy, Bononia, Segesta and now I'm conquering Illyria to get access to the mines. I currently have 2 full armies both have the basic legion core, composing of 1-2 FM's 2 Leves, 2 Hastati, 2 Principes, 1 Triarii and 1 Equites. The Socii part differs with the armies, first army has 2 leves 4 samnite spears and 3 campanian cav, while 2nd one has 2 akontistai 4 pelatsts and 3 campanian cav. Once my MIC's are more developed, I'll get bruttian inf, smanite heavy inf, greek cav and extraordinarii units.

For my future plans, after I've added Illyria and Patavia, I'll plan to attack Carthage, by first taking Sicily, Korsika and Sardinia. Then I'll create a third army, leave 1 army to homelands while 2 others advance towards Carthagenean Iberia, one travels trough west mediterranean coast and the other is shipped trough the seas passign by Palma on the way. I'll then end the war by raiding one of their cities, and then let them fortify themselves for later attack.

After that, I'll consolidate and plan out expansion to somewhere else (Greece?)

[Ubernotnoob]

I currently have 2 full armies

2 full armies only?!?! man I think I'm doing something wrong. In my current Romani campaign, I have united Italy, conquered Massalia, Emporion, Segestica and Dalminion(spelling?), and right now i have 4 legions +1 allied army. i have 1 legion in Massalia, 1 in Illyria, 1 in the pass connecting Mediolanum and Vesontio(spelling?) and the last one is in Emporion along with the allied army. My economy can support it considering its around the year 232BC and the majority of my Italic cities are highly developed, but i'm just wondering if having 5 armies is a bit overboard.

The political situation is as follows:
The gallic factions are still fighting it out in Gaul, i keep a legion near Massalia to deter the Averni from attacking it
Sweboz have managed to take over most of Germania and the alps, theyre sending stacks down the pass towards mediolanum. Hence the army positioned there
KH, Getai and Epirus have managed to push Macedonia out of the Baulkans, they're quite a force in Asia Minor though
Epirus borders Dalminion, though because theyre a protectorate of KH and KH is my ally, theres a sort of tenuous peace between us
The Luso's have taken all of Iberia except for Emporion
Carthage has taken all of North Africa




anyways back on topic, the scaffold i use for my legions are
1 General
1 Romani Citizen Cavalry (optional)
2 Triarii
3 Principes
3 Hastati
2 Velites
atleast 1 allied cavalry
the rest is filled with either regional troops or mercenaries

[The Kybrothilian]

2 full armies only?!?! man I think I'm doing something wrong. In my current Romani campaign, I have united Italy, conquered Massalia, Emporion, Segestica and Dalminion(spelling?), and right now i have 4 legions +1 allied army. i have 1 legion in Massalia, 1 in Illyria, 1 in the pass connecting Mediolanum and Vesontio(spelling?) and the last one is in Emporion along with the allied army. My economy can support it considering its around the year 232BC and the majority of my Italic cities are highly developed, but i'm just wondering if having 5 armies is a bit overboard.

The political situation is as follows:
The gallic factions are still fighting it out in Gaul, i keep a legion near Massalia to deter the Averni from attacking it
Sweboz have managed to take over most of Germania and the alps, theyre sending stacks down the pass towards mediolanum. Hence the army positioned there
KH, Getai and Epirus have managed to push Macedonia out of the Baulkans, they're quite a force in Asia Minor though
Epirus borders Dalminion, though because theyre a protectorate of KH and KH is my ally, theres a sort of tenuous peace between us
The Luso's have taken all of Iberia except for Emporion
Carthage has taken all of North Africa




anyways back on topic, the scaffold i use for my legions are
1 General
1 Romani Citizen Cavalry (optional)
2 Triarii
3 Principes
3 Hastati
2 Velites
atleast 1 allied cavalry
the rest is filled with either regional troops or mercenaries

I have less settlements than you (I haven't even conquered Illyria fully yet) and my 2 armies are fullstack with this composition:

2 FM (1 general, 1 tribune)
2 Leves
2 Hastati
2 Principe
1 Triarii
1 Equites romani
2 allied skirmishers
4 allied infantry
3 allied cavalry

[Stingray970]

Thanks guys.

How do mines work? For the first tier mine, it says +2000, but on the finance screen it only says +600. Where's the other 1400 coming from?

[Rhomphaiaphoros]

For the first tier mine, it says +2000, but on the finance screen it only says +600. Where's the other 1400 coming from?

The first tier mines actually give you only 600 per turn (in some regions it can be more, though). So the finance screen is correct, and the building description "lies". If I remember correct, this had something to do with the (hard)coding of RTW; if not, then the resource trade values just differ somehow from the values put in export_descr_buildings. I don't know exactly, but I'm still 100% sure that the numbers in the finance screen are the correct ones.

- Rhomphaiaphoros

[Entropy Judge]

All that said, I can think of a situation in which Hastati might fare better than Principes. That situation is when the unit gets flanked. Flanked Principes may get their butts kicked faster than flanked Hastati, because of the defence values. On the other hand, Principes would make better flankers than Hastati, because of the higher offensive power I keep mentioning.

So all in all, Principes are a clearly superior and more cost-effective unit. I admit I still use Hastati for historical roleplaying reasons, though. But if cost-effectiveness is all that matters, Principes are almost always a better option.

- Rhomphaiaphoros

I like to use Hastati as impromptu Skirmishers at times. Yes, they're almost entirely inferior to Peltastai, but you can recruit Hastati from several cities, and generally long before you can get similar numbers of Peltastai (and they're cheaper, too). The Bruttian Infantry are better at melee than the Hastati IMO - -1 Attack, but better Lethality.

How do mines work? For the first tier mine, it says +2000, but on the finance screen it only says +600. Where's the other 1400 coming from?

I remember reading somewhere that the value given in the Mine Description is the Annual amount - that is, four turns' worth. In any case, the Financial Screen (and the City Scroll Details) are correct, regardless of what the building description says.

[Aenima]

To be honest, I'd say follow this video as 'instructions' for your expansion. Having played other campaigns as the Romans where I just do my own thing, it's boring and easy as hell. By following the above guide (territories only, doing it by dates would be annoying) it's a lot more fun, with some challenge to it. By the time I got to Spain the tribes there were fairly strong, making it a fun conquest (read, FUN, not annoying or boring) and I'm currently conquering Greece, with the Maks weakened to a few cities but with large armies, and a Hellenic empire that stretches through Western Asia Minor. Really fun, I recommend it.


As for army composition, this is what I use;


Cavalry
- 1 General
- 1 Campanian cavalry (javelin cav, good for harassing and close combat. Prefer to equites)


Infantry
- 2x Hastati; front line
- 1x Bruttian infantry; front line
- 1x Samnite spearmen; front line

- 2x principe; second line
- 1x Pedites extrordinarii; second line (use Rorarii in the Camillan era)

- 1x Triarii; third line
- 1x Hoplitai/ Hoplitai Hoploi; third line

Skirmishers

- 1x Velites (Polybian only)
- 1x Accensi
- 1x Akontistai


Total of 14 units, with levies from the area you're campaigning through, ie 'picking up' Illyrian levies from Ambrakia before heading East, Celtic levies from Massalia before going into Gaul, Spanish ones from Mastia before going further in, etc. I find that any more than that and it becomes too easy, and you're pretty much guaranteed a win with every battle. I've fought armies 1.5 times bigger and crushed them, simply because this is a great layout.

I also recommend heading into the sub-mod section and getting the formation mods. Makes the AI actually set up formation, and allows you to use completely different ones (ie, a Greek set up instead of 2 lines, etc)

[Boriak]

I believe that the mines income is maxed at the ammount designated in the mines description (+2000 or +5000). The real income is dependant on the number of ore locations in the province and there are two types of ores: gold and silver. If you have a single ore location in the province, building the first level mine will give you 600 or 660 income, dependant on which ore it is. Second level usually gives about 1200, so that's doubling.

The largest first level mine income I've seen is in Dalminion: 1800. That's not necessarily the biggest but this is the main reason why I'm interested in taking that province whenever I'm close (plus modern Dalmacia has some great beaches ). Other places that are very rich with mines are Iberia, Asia Minor and the area around Persia.

Some FMs have miner trait which still increases the income. So check your FMs and send those that have the trait into provinces with mines.

[Stingray970]

I'm almost at "Unified Italy", I just need to conquer Syracuse and I'm done. When I'm finished getting said province, it should be about 260 BC.

How much stronger would waiting the 72 turns for the Polybian reforms make the world?

All the factions that start with one province have 2, or 3 (Saka has 4) provinces. Carthage hasn't moved, Aeudi are winning the Gaul war, Epeiros and Makedon are fighting eachother in Greece, Koinon Hellas is on its' last legs, and I can't tell about Ptolemaoi and Seleucids.

If I wanted to, I could prepare for about 1&1/2 years and storm over to Spain and wipe out Lustoannia right now, but I don't want that. I don't want them becoming a massive blob of gold that'll take me 5 decades to destroy, either.

Income is 10,000 per turn, I almost never fall below 25000. My navy was destroyed, I'll have to build a new one after I build up my economy some more to support it.

[Samariten]

I'm almost at "Unified Italy", I just need to conquer Syracuse and I'm done. When I'm finished getting said province, it should be about 260 BC.

How much stronger would waiting the 72 turns for the Polybian reforms make the world?

All the factions that start with one province have 2, or 3 (Saka has 4) provinces. Carthage hasn't moved, Aeudi are winning the Gaul war, Epeiros and Makedon are fighting eachother in Greece, Koinon Hellas is on its' last legs, and I can't tell about Ptolemaoi and Seleucids.

If I wanted to, I could prepare for about 1&1/2 years and storm over to Spain and wipe out Lustoannia right now, but I don't want that. I don't want them becoming a massive blob of gold that'll take me 5 decades to destroy, either.

Income is 10,000 per turn, I almost never fall below 25000. My navy was destroyed, I'll have to build a new one after I build up my economy some more to support it.

Well if you let the Aedui dominate Gaul they will eventually come for you. Also the Sweboz will come down over the alps and attack you when they have grown abit. So expect northern confrontation . You should have a stack fortified up there to fend off invaders. If you decide to go east for Illyria the Getai could have expand abit and come for you if you go further the patavium.

[Balbor]

Someone mentioned that towards the end of the Polybien eara the differences between the three roman heavy infantry types had begun to blur and that cohorts had started to be used before the Marian reforms so would it be good role play to start to only use excusably Principes And drop Triarii and Hastati

[Stingray970]

I don't think the Aeudi will come for me.

I'm allied with them, and give them small gifts of money every turn. They've even begun to give me gifts!

I don't care about roleplaying, I just want a challenge from the AI getting strong, not me carefully choosing armies.


UPDATE: 251 BC right now, and I'm surprised at how little things have changed.

I'm easily making 25-30k per turn, a lot of provinces are building expensive dock upgrades in a desperate attempt to avoid corruption.

Lusotanna hasn't made ANY progress. Carthage has acquired one province in Iberia. Epeiros and Makedon are protectorates now, so no progress in Greece. Seleucid has started kicking the ass of everyone around it, Pontos will be dead soon, Baktria and Parthia have lost quite a bit of land. No progress made in gaul. Casse have conquered one province in Britannia, and have yet to conquer the entire Island ( they only have 3 ). Sweboz have 2 provinces, and have not gained any. Ptolemaioi I have no idea about.

Really, I'm the only one who has made any significant progress since we started in 272 BC.

[HUtH]

^ With 5 armies I could just ride over the Seleukids in few turns with ALL THESE PHALANXES from Makedonia... From the beginning of war with AS(which has almost everything east of Kappadokia) I use one army with my 10-star faction leader(Kalos Argeades - btw doesn't "kalos" in greek means "beautiful"?) and fortunatelly and at last I've conquered Antiocheia recently... Unfortunately I cannot afford more than two armies, because of low taxes almost everywhere for population growth...