[DISCUSSION] Reforms: Issue 1

[m_1512]

Problem:

General voting power should be taken from the masses, the CdeC should be expanded and all voting power handed to them. The perks of being a Citizen should be being eligible to sit on the CdeC, voting for who sits on the CdeC, and debating/vetoing (if needs be) the actions of the CdeC. Although anyone can debate anything, but only Citizens have access to the Curia. This would ensure that every medal, amendment and whatever else gets the same amount of attention as Citizenship applications should get.

Source: The Constitution.

Article IV. The Consilium de CivitatesThe Consilium de Civitates manages the granting and removal of all Curia Ranks by voting. The Consilium de Civitates may also function as an advisory body to the staff of TWC in matters concerning the Curia and its Citizens.


MembershipThe full membership comprises of:

• Twelve elected Citizens, who may discuss and vote on all matters within the Consilium de Civitates Forum
• Hexagon members, who may discuss all matters within the Consilium de Civitates Forum, but have no vote.
• The Curator, who may take part in all Consilium de Civitates discussions, and has the deciding vote only in the case of a tie. The Curator has veto powers over any Consilium de Civitates decision.

Elected members of the Consilium de Civitates and the Curator must actively participate in discussions and votes. Hexagon members' participation is optional.

[m_1512]

T.C. has a solid point(s) there.

1) The CdeC are the most active participants, from my observation.

2) Also from my observations, the OT threads are the most active part of the capitol. And the usual problem of Ghost voters.


So, here are my suggestions,

1. The Consilium de Civiate to be expanded from 12 to 25 members. The term of office remains unchanged unless required.

2. The Consilium de Civiate shall hold all voting powers for Citizenship applications, Awards, and further amendments.

3. The above can be initiated by any Citizen (Patronization, Awards, Amendments, etc.), but shall be voted upon and passed by CdeC only.

4. The Curator shall retain the power of veto.

To eliminate the so called "Ghost voters" (Not my term, someone else coined it), I have a slightly different idea.

5. The waiting period to be eligible to apply for CdeC seat to be reduced from 3 months to 1 month. I will give further explanation for this logic if anyone asks.

Thank you all for your time

[Hesus de bodemloze]

Opposed.

It's starting to be a tradition that the new guys make the same proposals over and over again.

[T.C.]

Opposed.

It's starting to be a tradition that the new guys make the same proposals over and over again.

How constructive. On what grounds?

I'll support it, it being my idea and all But you need to clarify a few things. Eg The Curia in general should still elect the Curator.

[ForteS]

Opposed.

It's starting to be a tradition that the new guys make the same proposals over and over again.

May I sign this?


Lord Bucky

[Sir Pignans]

It's like Turkeys voting for Christmas. I'm opposed, I think anyone who comes into the Curia looking for a vote cares (or will at least look at the proprosal before deciding), just because they didn't post doesn't mean they don't care, when I was making my citizen application, I noticed that not all Cdec members who voted, posted, just because they don't post, does not mean that they don't have an opinion, nor that they vote only for the sake of voting, since they have to go out of their way to vote.

[Leonidas The Lion]

Opposed.

Lets avoid making the Curia a joke.

[The Hedge Knight]

Opposed. I have very little faith in the cdec in it's current form (love Asty though ).

The cdec doesn't attract all sorts of people like the Curia does and it is impossible to tell (this being the Internet) what those who stand truly stand for.

[King Sama]

I oppose as well, for many reasons.

You mention increased attention to everything as is common in the citizenship applications, is that really the case if the CDEC's workload is expanded so greatly?

[T.C.]

I oppose as well, for many reasons.

You mention increased attention to everything as is common in the citizenship applications, is that really the case if the CDEC's workload is expanded so greatly?

I think he had covered for that by more than doubling the size of the CdeC. And seeing as there's more Citizenship applications than anything else around here, their workload certainly wouldn't be doubled.

[King Sama]

I think he had covered for that by more than doubling the size of the CdeC. And seeing as there's more Citizenship applications than anything else around here, their workload certainly wouldn't be doubled.

Just because the Curia is doubled doesn't mean they wouldn't individually need to do as much research for the overall decision to be considered well-informed. Even doubling by itself would theoretically make the people less qualified. I don't know if the workload itself would be doubled, but it would definitely be increased if quality is kept constant. And there may not be so many votes to take, but if the CDEC took over the debate and everything, the increase may be considerable.

Then again, I'm in no position to judge the current workload of the CDEC and their eagerness to take on more.


More importantly, if the CDEC takes over the Curia's functions... what's the point of being a citizen?

[T.C.]

More importantly, if the CDEC takes over the Curia's functions... what's the point of being a citizen?

At present: to vote on who gets what pixels under their avatar, what new pixels should be made available to be placed under avatars, and voting on how we should vote on said pixels.

[Legio]

Removing voting power from the citizenry at large removes any semblance of democracy from the process. People claim that the CdeC is biased now: what do you think the reaction will be when all Curial decision is given to them?

[MorganH.]

Oppose as i feel exactly like Legio so clearly formulates.

[m_1512]

Greetings.


I'd like to make something very clear, before everyone continues jumping down my throat. This proposal is for the Problem/Issue put forward by T.C. It is not from my own imagination or fancy. If there is a flaw here, then mention it, I will make probable amendments. If this brings out another problem, then mention in this thread.



*sigh*

*I try something*
*Opposed*
*CVRIA needs reforms*

*I propose reforms*
*Opposed*

*I'll try something else*
*Opposed*
*CVRIA needs reforms*

*sigh*

[T.C.]

I'd like to make something very clear, before everyone continues jumping down my throat. This proposal is for the Problem/Issue put forward by T.C. It is not from my own imagination or fancy. ]

There's a good reason why I didn't start this sort of proposal - because I knew exactly what would happen.

Oppose, no reason.
Oppose, new guy has silly ideas. We accepted his Citizenship request so he could use his talents and mature posting style (supposedly Citizen criteria) to be seen, not heard. Not so he could put them to use in the Curia.
Oppose, if this goes through it signals the end of the Curia which means TWC will come crashing down because the whole site relies on this forum never changing.
Oppose, *borderline spam mocking the supposed insanity of the idea in the first place*

After many turns of this cycle, Citizen X's will is broken and he becomes one of the those opposing fresh ideas by newcomers. Curia assimilation complete.



Etc, etc - I've seen the cycle enough times at this stage

[The Hedge Knight]

Fine, i propose a new level of bureaucracy.

We have an entirely new body of 12 citizens and a kingpin cheeze who are totally independant of the cdec who vote on policy proposed by the curia elected in the same way as the cdec. Members cannot be members of both groups so must choose whether they would rather throw out peoples ideas or vote in the people who vote for the people who vote out those ideas.

Changing who votes isnt going to change anything if that sample is truly representative of the curia, the proportions should theoretically be the same.

Perhaps the laws have truly evolved into the ultimate species and are just about fine as they are?

[M D]

Why not just make every citizen a voter for new entry, create a curial assembly? That's basically what your creating, now it's 12 then 25, then 50, then where?

[Harry Lime]

You know, in some ways, the Curia is even worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans for assimilation. The Curia is more insidious, they assimilate people; and they don't even know it.

[m_1512]

There's a good reason why I didn't start this sort of proposal - because I knew exactly what would happen.

Oppose, no reason.
Oppose, new guy has silly ideas. We accepted his Citizenship request so he could use his talents and mature posting style (supposedly Citizen criteria) to be seen, not heard. Not so he could put them to use in the Curia.
Oppose, if this goes through it signals the end of the Curia which means TWC will come crashing down because the whole site relies on this forum never changing.
Oppose, *borderline spam mocking the supposed insanity of the idea in the first place*

After many turns of this cycle, Citizen X's will is broken and he becomes one of the those opposing fresh ideas by newcomers. Curia assimilation complete.

Etc, etc - I've seen the cycle enough times at this stage

You know, in some ways, the Curia is even worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans for assimilation. The Curia is more insidious, they assimilate people; and they don't even know it.

I had some idea of this.

After many turns of this cycle, Citizen X's will is broken and he becomes one of the those opposing fresh ideas by newcomers. Curia assimilation complete.

This line by T.C. is horrifyingly true.
Then why the bandying "CURIA needs reforms!"?

That is why I proposed this,

After many turns of this cycle, Citizen X's will is broken and he becomes one of the those opposing fresh ideas by newcomers. Curia assimilation complete.

If anyone opposes, I wish to ask the logic behind this, or is this some another rule to break the will pr enthusiasm of a new citizen.