This shows how Islam can be spread by the gun.

[Helm]

Well its an interesting conversion story. Whether its a good heart warming story or terrible one I'm not sure?

It was actually a fairly text book submission to Islam straight out of the Quran.

[Hax]

Intriguing.

[Poet]

Well its an interesting conversion story. Whether its a good heart warming story or terrible one I'm not sure?

It was actually a fairly text book submission to Islam straight out of the Quran.

He made us proud to be Muslims and Pakistanis. I've seen this video. +rep

[SPECTREtm]

He made us proud to be Muslims and Pakistanis. I've seen this video. +rep

So people "converting" people by gunpoint makes you proud? Pretty much tells us all we'll ever need to know about you and people like you...



Disgusting!

[Veliky Kaiser Theos]

So people "converting" people by gunpoint makes you proud? Pretty much tells us all we'll ever need to know about you and people like you...

Disgusting!

Did you even watch the video? The shop guy converted the gunman, not the other way around.

I think that the shop guy was so successful due to Maslow's hierarchy. Since the thief needed food, probably wasn't meeting his physiological requirements, which were met by robbing. Since those requirements weren't met beforehand, he almost certainly didn't meet his belonging requirements, which Islam fulfilled.

I'm hostile towards Abrahamic religions, but I feel that I must emphasise:

Watch the video before commenting!

[Poet]

Islam was originally spread by the sword, can you blame them for adapting to the modern world?

Prove it.

So people "converting" people by gunpoint makes you proud? Pretty much tells us all we'll ever need to know about you and people like you...



Disgusting!

Did you even see the video? What in fact disgusting is Western hypocrisy, they still live in mindset of crusades and never accept that, they are not ready to think with open mind and they would welcome anything with open arms which provides them a chance to bash Islam and Muslims. Before making stupid posts do have a look at matter. He converted that black guy with his great kindness and mercy not with gun. Next time before extracting favorite results right out of your arse first investigate the matter.

[Veliky Kaiser Theos]

Did you even see the video? What in fact disgusting is Western hypocrisy, they still live in mindset of crusades and never accept that, they are not ready to think with open mind and they would welcome anything with open arms which provides them a chance to bash Islam and Muslims. Before making stupid posts do have a look at matter. He converted that black guy with his great kindness and mercy not with gun. Next time before extracting favorite results right out of your arse first investigate the matter.

You're just as bad as the Islamophobes by generalizing the West as being as narrow-minded as them.

[generalveers]

Prove it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Brown was assimilated into the main Muslim nation by Mohammed, orange by the Rashidun, yellow by the Omayyad.

Do you think that happened peacefully? Many of the territories in turkey were controlled by the Byzantine Empire at first. Many people in Southern Spain had been Christians. How about the Battle of Tours? This is not a map of territories that became Muslim, they were conquered and merged into the Caliphates.

Actually, the Caliphate originally tried to keep its new subjects *from* converting to Islam mainly due to some quite prosaic economic motives. There was eventually a bit of a civil war over that I understand, in which said subjects in effect won themselves the right to convert...

The Jews and other repressed religious groups were sick of the Byzantine and Sassanid Empires so they did originally welcome the Muslim forces. The Jews were given the right to practice their religion because Mohammed respected the ancient Jewish prophets and rabbis, using their teachings to help lay the foundation for Islam. However, like all religions, they spread theirs as they went. The armies that propelled their expansion came from converted kings and were composed of converted soldiers.

That map does not show the Muslim expansion into India, where they assimilated the majority of the country under the Mughal banner. Hindus were violently repressed, their polytheistic religion sent into hiding as a result. It survived though, mostly because of how deeply ingrained it was into Indian society.

[Watchman]

Brown was assimilated into the main Muslim nation by Mohammed, orange by the Rashidun, yellow by the Omayyad.

Do you think that happened peacefully? Many of the territories in turkey were controlled by the Byzantine Empire at first. Many people in Southern Spain had been Christians. How about the Battle of Tours? This is not a map of territories that became Muslim, they were conquered and merged into the Caliphates.

You're mistaking territorial conquest with religious conversion. Look, the thing is that the Caliphate DID NOT proselytize; very much the opposite in fact. Non-Muslim "protected peoples" were barred from varying high offices and obliged to pay a special tax, so it should be readily obvious why it was in the interests of the new Muslim (and by that time still mostly Arab) overlords to discourage conversion; and on the flipside, why only too many of their new subjects would want to convert already for wholly practical reasons.

Far as I'm aware Muslim conquerors rarely if ever practiced forced conversion (which is more than can be said of their Christian peers, despite the Church itself having realised rather early that it didn't actually work all too well); most were perfectly happy to rule over unconverted dhimmi and pocket the extra taxes. Only too naturally it followed that over time any number of those subjects would seek conversion even if they weren't overly sold on the theological bits.

The Jews and other repressed religious groups were sick of the Byzantine and Sassanid Empires so they did originally welcome the Muslim forces. The Jews were given the right to practice their religion because Mohammed respected the ancient Jewish prophets and rabbis, using their teachings to help lay the foundation for Islam. However, like all religions, they spread theirs as they went. The armies that propelled their expansion came from converted kings and were composed of converted soldiers.

Most of those oppressed religious minorities were diverse Christian sects actually. Since the Muslims cared not one whit about how exactly they viewed God and worshipped Him, they were an obviously very welcome alternative to the Emperor and his Church who *did*...
Anyways, as already mentioned, early Caliphate actively discouraged conversion due to vested interests. You seem to be confusing the early form of the ghulam system - enslaving captured soldiers to continue their profession under a new master - with religious conversion. (It should be obvious why the POWs would prefer that deal to the *usual* period means of dealing with large numbers of enemy captives...)

That map does not show the Muslim expansion into India, where they assimilated the majority of the country under the Mughal banner. Hindus were violently repressed, their polytheistic religion sent into hiding as a result. It survived though, mostly because of how deeply ingrained it was into Indian society.

Besides from that happening *far* later - the Mughal rulers were actually descended from a certain Tamerlane - yeah so not. (Banning the suttee hardly counts as "violently repressing the Hindus" I daresay - and if it does, well, then the Brits were guilty of the same.) It's actually kind of interesting how the Mughals basically folded Hindus into "Peoples of the Book" cheerfully irrespective of that being theological nonsense - Realpolitik > :stuff:, obviously - and worth noting that the discriminatory policies later adopted under Aurangzeb (who was something of a religious zealot, I understand) in effect spelled the end of the Empire.

[panzer 4]

That map does not show the Muslim expansion into India, where they assimilated the majority of the country under the Mughal banner. Hindus were violently repressed, their polytheistic religion sent into hiding as a result. It survived though, mostly because of how deeply ingrained it was into Indian society.

you will find at first the Mughals were very tollerant, its only when they started passing harsh laws that their nation fell backwards, and consequently, Civil war

[AngryTitusPullo]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Brown was assimilated into the main Muslim nation by Mohammed, orange by the Rashidun, yellow by the Omayyad.

Do you think that happened peacefully? Many of the territories in turkey were controlled by the Byzantine Empire at first. Many people in Southern Spain had been Christians. How about the Battle of Tours? This is not a map of territories that became Muslim, they were conquered and merged into the Caliphates.

The Jews and other repressed religious groups were sick of the Byzantine and Sassanid Empires so they did originally welcome the Muslim forces. The Jews were given the right to practice their religion because Mohammed respected the ancient Jewish prophets and rabbis, using their teachings to help lay the foundation for Islam. However, like all religions, they spread theirs as they went. The armies that propelled their expansion came from converted kings and were composed of converted soldiers.

That map does not show the Muslim expansion into India, where they assimilated the majority of the country under the Mughal banner. Hindus were violently repressed, their polytheistic religion sent into hiding as a result. It survived though, mostly because of how deeply ingrained it was into Indian society.

You forgot the far east where until today made up the largest muslim population in the world.

Ever wonder why the are never conquered by Arabs and Ottomans have the largest muslim community ?

[Poet]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Brown was assimilated into the main Muslim nation by Mohammed, orange by the Rashidun, yellow by the Omayyad.

Do you think that happened peacefully? Many of the territories in turkey were controlled by the Byzantine Empire at first. Many people in Southern Spain had been Christians. How about the Battle of Tours? This is not a map of territories that became Muslim, they were conquered and merged into the Caliphates.



The Jews and other repressed religious groups were sick of the Byzantine and Sassanid Empires so they did originally welcome the Muslim forces. The Jews were given the right to practice their religion because Mohammed respected the ancient Jewish prophets and rabbis, using their teachings to help lay the foundation for Islam. However, like all religions, they spread theirs as they went. The armies that propelled their expansion came from converted kings and were composed of converted soldiers.

That map does not show the Muslim expansion into India, where they assimilated the majority of the country under the Mughal banner. Hindus were violently repressed, their polytheistic religion sent into hiding as a result. It survived though, mostly because of how deeply ingrained it was into Indian society.

You said Islam was spread through sword and what you showed was about Muslims' spread. There is a difference. There is not evidence that any group of people or nation was forced to convert to Islam, as far as Muslims conquests are concerned that is a different story and has nothing to do with "spread of Islam" which is in discussion in this thread. I said earlier and I would have to say that again, Islam was a religion of Prophet (pbuh) and his companions, religion cannot be alleged for sins of followers until it is proved that religion supports that specific sin. Had Roman empire not supported Arab tribes which were used to loot and tease Medina people, allies and their caravans and they would never be invaded. For you simple lesson is that their is a difference between spread of Islam and spread of Muslims, one could not be political at all and the other has all chances to be political.

[removeduser_052420]

Hindus were violently repressed, their polytheistic religion sent into hiding as a result. It survived though, mostly because of how deeply ingrained it was into Indian society.

That's not even true How could the hindus go into hiding when they outnumbered Muslims on a ratio of more than 4 : 1 ? And besides, muslims had to be tolerant toward the hindus for the most part, up until they had more of a hold on Indian lands, such as under Aurangzeb. But he was, even by Mughal standards, a religious zealot, and in no way a representative of the general view of the empire towards hindus.

[Babur]

That map does not show the Muslim expansion into India, where they assimilated the majority of the country under the Mughal banner. Hindus were violently repressed, their polytheistic religion sent into hiding as a result. It survived though, mostly because of how deeply ingrained it was into Indian society.

correction, the Delhi Sultanate had also conquered much of India during the Tughluqs but neither they nor later the Mughals could hold onto all that territory

Also Hinduism did not go into hiding at all, in fact Hinduism flourished and influenced the development of Sufism in India.

[Helm]

An English atheist embraces the "certainity of Islam" not because of a gun pointed at his head but because of...I dunno, peer pressure perhaps? I'm not sure how anyone can be argued into it. I'd be interested in seeing these arguments though as someone somewhere must have something killer.

[The_Fan]

An English atheist embraces the "certainity of Islam" not because of a gun pointed at his head but because of...I dunno, peer pressure perhaps? I'm not sure how anyone can be argued into it. I'd be interested in seeing these arguments though as someone somewhere must have something killer.

I admit I have always been intrigued about the award of virgins bit...................
Yes, Yes I know I am bound for hell with that remark!!!

Seriously, it would be interesting to see what leads some to convert. As there are folks who have converted both ways from Christianity to Islam and back (not to mention all other religions as well).

I dunno whether it would be doctrine so much as it might be the sincerity of the people preaching the one or the other. Or perhaps it is a disenfranchisement with the religion that they currently are in. Interesting food for thought none the less.

[thelionheart]

An English atheist embraces the "certainity of Islam" not because of a gun pointed at his head but because of...I dunno, peer pressure perhaps? I'm not sure how anyone can be argued into it. I'd be interested in seeing these arguments though as someone somewhere must have something killer.

My Friend, there are no killer arguments! There are only some golden rules that helps its spreading in my believe.

1- It is the simplest popular religion ever!
2- Boring Muslims -the majority- who don't get to appear on TV are really nice.
3- Islam -even if its text and early history said otherwise- doesn't accept injustice every where on earth. As long as there is no justice somewhere, you as a Muslim HAVE TO help remove it or you are sinner.
4- It creates strong family ties.
5- It was the sole reason for removing injustice, unifying Muslims and defeating their enemies through ages.
6- Islam has no clergy. The relation is between you and Allah directly. If Osama bin Laden tells you to kill someone, and your heart says otherwise (which is always the case with less violent in case of Arabs ) then Osama has no legal religious authority over you. Your conscious is your only source of fatwa, you are to be blamed for accepting one, dismissing one or not being able to tell!
7- The Shaikh, unlike the western clergy men, is not viewed as a helper to the ruling elite. Shaikhs have always bin tortured, imprisoned and executed for speaking against the caliphs in a time where no one else dared.

[Phier]

My Friend, there are no killer arguments! There are only some golden rules that helps its spreading in my believe.

1- It is the simplest popular religion ever!
2- Boring Muslims -the majority- who don't get to appear on TV are really nice.
3- Islam -even if its text and early history said otherwise- doesn't accept injustice every where on earth. As long as there is no justice somewhere, you as a Muslim HAVE TO help remove it or you are sinner.
4- It creates strong family ties.
5- It was the sole reason for removing injustice, unifying Muslims and defeating their enemies through ages.
6- Islam has no clergy. The relation is between you and Allah directly. If Osama bin Laden tells you to kill someone, and your heart says otherwise (which is always the case with less violent in case of Arabs ) then Osama has no legal religious authority over you. Your conscious is your only source of fatwa, you are to be blamed for accepting one, dismissing one or not being able to tell!
7- The Shaikh, unlike the western clergy men, is not viewed as a helper to the ruling elite. Shaikhs have always bin tortured, imprisoned and executed for speaking against the caliphs in a time where no one else dared.

And lots of people kill others in its name on a daily basis, brilliant!

[thelionheart]

And lots of people kill others in its name on a daily basis, brilliant!

Thanks to the CIA agent Osama bin Laden and the crimes of George Bush

Christianity is the largest religion, with Islam second.

Yes. But Islam is less complicated.

[Akar]

1- It is the simplest popular religion ever!

Christianity is the largest religion, with Islam second.