Aggressive marketing/proselytism

[Garbarsardar]

Views on the propriety of proselytism, or even evangelism, differ radically. Some feel that freedom of speech should have no limits and that virtually anyone, anywhere should have the right to talk about anything they see fit. Others see all sorts of evangelism as a nuisance and an intrusion and would like to see them proscribed. Thus, Natan Lerner observes that the issue is one of a clash of rights - the right of a person to express his views versus the right of a person not to be exposed to views that he does not wish to hear.

From a legal standpoint, there do appear to be certain criteria in distinguishing legitimate evangelisation from illicit proselytism:

* All humans have the right to have religious beliefs, and to change these beliefs, even repeatedly, if they so wish. (Freedom of Religion)
* They have the right to form religious organizations for the purpose of worship, as well as for promoting their cause (Freedom of Association)
* They have the right to speak to others about their convictions, with the purpose of influencing the others. (Freedom of Speech).

By the same token, these very rights exercise a limiting influence on the freedoms of others. For instance, the right to have one's religious beliefs presumably includes the right not to be coerced into changing these beliefs by threats, discrimination, or similar inducements by the state and its agencies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proselytism

In 1964 the Harvard Business Review published a seminal article on the characteristics of a good salesman. Research then showed that two traits, empathy and ego drive – or "the need to conquer" – were equally important to sales success.

In the last three decades there has been a shift in buyer/seller relationships in business-to-business marketing. This has led to the need for more empathy and less ego drive in the successful salesman.

This is most noticeable in high-value sales where a continuing relationship between the counterparties is fundamental to the success of the transaction. Both full-time and occasional buyers are now more sophisticated in the technical aspects of purchasing and in the psychology of the buy/sell process. They know that salesmen are taught about the importance of "pushing" techniques such as trial closes, and are not so much wary as weary of them. And good buyers will be seeking not just the best deal for their company, but a deal which also motivates the supplier to perform. So they are seeking a dialogue with the salesman which establishes a clear understanding of what they need, what he is capable of delivering, and how closely they match.
http://www.cambcorp.co.uk/news2.htm

So do you consider that Aggressive marketing and proselytism are two similar functions?
And how aggravated you feel by that?

[dashizller]

I'm aggravated by both, though offended is a bit extreme. I didn't follow my teachers' advice and read all of the options, hence my vote is offended by both. It ticks me off. Yesterday I was sitting on a bench in a mall waiting for someone (in Korea and I can't speak the language much). This woman asks me to over a bit, sits down. And asks me all these questions about going to church. She goes on to talk about Jesus' life (ironically she got one fact VERY wrong, thoguh I forgot it.) I tell her I'm not interested politely but she says she has the right to save me. Soon I get ******, but I can't speak the language well enough so I just say I can't listen to this and leave.

The other day I got a telemarketing call from AMERICA! on my phone in KOREA. Somehow they found us. I say I'm not interested and they're wasting my time and he replies that if I just buy it I can go. I hang up with annoyance.

To me, they're all the same. The right to speak includes the right to not listen.

[vizi]

I view both of these occurences apathetically. When I got cornered by the bible bumpers at the uni I just said; "I have already read the bible. I don't need to study it with you and walked away." And then we collected as many of the mini new testaments and built a house in the student union.

And I just pick the phone up and hang up to make the the phone stop ringing. Thank god for caller ID.

[Darth Wong]

In-your-face marketing and in-your-face proselytizing are almost identical. In fact, the most aggressive marketers and proselytizers share one infuriatingly obnoxious trait: they bother you in your home. Look, if some guy wants to preach in church, that's great. Let him preach. But when people knock on my door, they're bothering me in my home and that's just obnoxious, whether they're selling vacuum cleaners or God.

Mind you, there are certain aggressive behaviours that marketers do but proselytizers don't, such as telemarketing, while there are certain aggressive behaviours that proselytizers do that marketers don't, such as overtly insulting you, the way fundamentalists do when they blame atheists for all of society's ills (including some made-up ills).

[Pallida Mors]

I think both should be passive. I hate it when your walking anywhere, and anyone tries to pull me aside for anything. If I want your product, I'll seek you out. It'll probably be because of a random advertisment I've seen that sparked my interest. Religious people 'witnessing' to me bothers me. Regardless of what I believe. I think that people who do that, go up to random people and bother them are cowards and do more harm than good. First, they are cowards because if they really thought what they think is true, they would befriend various people, spend time with them. And if the difference is so great, dont you think others would notice that? Its too easy to walk up to anyone and badger them about God. When its done, you can pat yourself on the back and tell yourself your doing Gods work. Coward. Second, you do more harm than good by badgering people until they absolutly cant take anymore and will completly disregard whatever it is you say. Random phone call telemarketers and pamphlets passers can all go away and the world would be much better.

[stop-3]

Lovely thread starter for us athiests! Beautifully put I must say. Dead right - selling a religion is just like selling encyclopedies. I was a door-to-door encyclopedia seller(con-man) once. We frequently bumped into the various church-groups in the streets (this was back in the early 80's) and I was struck how similar our occupations were though they were much more smartly dressed in uniform! They like us had the task of getting the poor suckers to sign a form and hand over money. Though I am ashamed at what I did (it was a crappy encyclopedia for outragous price) I think we were infinitly more honest.

[Oldgamer]

My method of dealing with, for example, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, is very simple. I tell them I am not interested, I politely ask them to leave the premises, and I close the door. In this way, their intrusion upon my life last no longer, nor is it any more irritating, than a telemarketer's call.

One thing, though ...

I never, ever, treat them badly. To do so helps out with the martyr complex that their respective organizations hope they will get. You want to make a Mormon more determined to win people for his organization, and more efficient at it? Just swear at him and slam the door in his face ...

EDIT: I forgot to address the issues raised in this thread!

Yes, I do see a similarity to evangelization techniques and those used in aggressive marketing. In my own home town, I've attempted to get an ordinance passed which would require all out-of-town evangelism groups to register their intention to "work" the town, and would allow citizens to put their name on a "Do Not Call" registry. Members of groups registering to go door-to-door or use the phone system to evangelise would be issued a list of all addresses and phone numbers on the list, and would be subject to a misdemeanor offense for violation.

Note that in no way is this a violation of the freedom of religion. It would just be a recognition that some people have their own faiths, or no "faith" at all, and wish to be left alone.

So far, none of the city fathers have championed my proposed ordinance, and just today, I smiled sweetly and closed the door on ... of all things ... Wiccans, going door-to-door.

[stop-3]

This thread has reliven old memories for me. Those few sets of encyclopedias I sold were always to families - either a new couple expecting or with very young ones - no teenagers. The painful thing is that thay were always lovely people. They had a touching naivity and above all a wish that things would go alright for them in this uncertain world of ours. I think now what a tragedy it is that all these lovely people are suckered up into beleiving all sorts of tosh whether religious or political.