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  1. #1

    Default Atheist Dogma?

    Could someone explain to me what it is? I find the term somewhat confusing in this context. According to wikipedia:
    dog·ma/ˈdôgmə/

    Noun: A principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.

    Stating that something is false isn't dogma.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    Just another attempt at lableing something incorrectly so it can be easier to attack.

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    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    Atheist Dogma: Evolution theory and the Big Bang. Among other theories like the theory of gravity.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    Atheist Dogma: Evolution theory and the Big Bang. Among other theories like the theory of gravity.
    Rofl. No, not even close to be a dogma.

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    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    Well thats Atheism dogmatic rules... other scientific theories.

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    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    Big bang: I have no idea. I don't know about others, but for me it sure as hell isn't atheist dogma.

    Gravity: There's dogma, and there's common sense. No matter how many times you test it, it works. It's possible that there's undetectable ropes doing all the work, but that's even more complicated.

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    Visna's Avatar Comrade Natascha
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    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    There is no atheist dogma. Even a scientific authority boldly proclaiming "God does not exist" is not a dogma in the dogmatic sense, as it's likely to be opposed by a fair number of atheists whose only common denominator is doubt or disbelief in the concept of God(s).

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    Well thats Atheism dogmatic rules... other scientific theories.
    There is no such a thing as an atheist authority pretending we should all agree without question about the Evolution theory or the Big Bang theory or whatever. That alone would exclude the possibility of ''Atheist dogma''.
    But let's move further.
    Atheists generally accept those theories, because they make more sense than anything anybody come up with so far, or there is some evidence about it.
    And even this doesn't mean blind acceptance.
    Everybody is free to question and come up with better explanations. If better explanations disproving evolution or whatever become available, I don't think any atheist would have any problem dropping those theories.
    Therefore, saying that atheists have dogmas is utter nonsense and poor understanding of atheism.

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    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    Quote Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S View Post
    There is no such a thing as an atheist authority pretending we should all agree without question about the Evolution theory or the Big Bang theory or whatever. That alone would exclude the possibility of ''Atheist dogma''.
    But let's move further.
    Atheists generally accept those theories, because they make more sense than anything anybody come up with so far, or there is some evidence about it.
    And even this doesn't mean blind acceptance.
    Everybody is free to question and come up with better explanations. If better explanations disproving evolution or whatever become available, I don't think any atheist would have any problem dropping those theories.
    Therefore, saying that atheists have dogmas is utter nonsense and poor understanding of atheism.
    I was pretty much kidding about the gravity bit but I am sure most evangelicals would consider Evolution and perhaps the Big Bang dogma to Atheists. Obviously I (an Atheists) dont consider it Dogma. I consider it Scientific fact.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    I was pretty much kidding about the gravity bit but I am sure most evangelicals would consider Evolution and perhaps the Big Bang dogma to Atheists. Obviously I (an Atheists) dont consider it Dogma. I consider it Scientific fact.
    I don't expect evangelicals to understand atheists. If they were able to do such a thing, there wouldn't be any of them around.

  11. #11
    Col. Tartleton's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    Evolution: An idea based on evidence.

    Is it a "theory"? Yes. Does that mean it's fact? No. Has anyone come up with a more likely explanation based on the actual evidence? Not even close. So should we proceed with the notion that evolution is effectively right and that any needed changes will be made as necessary.

    I'm not sure you can dogmatically believe in evolution unless you don't actually know what it is. Which a lot of people actually don't. So for those people it might resemble a dogma because they're taking it as such. It isn't, they're just dumb. These are the people who think that there is a personal choice between creationism and evolution. That's sort of like having a personal choice as to whether the sun goes around the earth or not (the not being something we ought to be embarrassed as a species we didn't conclude was possible or even likely sooner.)

    Same with the Big Bang theory. Is it a theory? Yes. Is it fact? No. Has anyone come up with a better explanation that works as well? Nope. Thus we must take it seriously.

    There is no Dogma of atheism. There might be a Dogma of Science, but it is simply that the Scientific method is the best method for the investigation of phenomena, acquiring of practical knowledge, and the practical employment of said knowledge.
    Last edited by Col. Tartleton; August 11, 2011 at 09:13 AM.
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    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    ism - the philosophy.
    ist - the person holding such theory.

    Atheism is about negating a set of ethics, not the other way around. However, we are not talking about atheism, we are talking about atheist. Thus, as an atheist, one prescribe to some form of ethics (unless you count moral nihilism, correct me if I'm wrong): Humanist organisation, a pro-secular political party, etc. or some semi deviation of such active stance.

    So to speak, such a statement as [sic] Atheist Dogma is delivered from the deist-worshippers who prescribe people from a stickt ego-centric point of view. "That man is not a believer of X, thus everything he do follows from the fact that he doesn't believe X." Thus I ask you, is it even worth debating with such obsession of belief, that he is intellectually incapable of raising his eyes above his own subjectivity, that one has to endure the tirade of non-sense? For what?

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    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
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    Ancient Aliens's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    I disagree with most of the posters here in that atheists can adhere to dogma. When a person blindly adheres to a source of information without consideration for opposing viewpoints, this is dogmatic, and anyone can display this sort of behavior. Saying that atheists don't have a foundation for having dogmatic beliefs is incorrect as well; atheists can dogmatically adhere to an influential atheist, for example.

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    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient Aliens View Post
    I disagree with most of the posters here in that atheists can adhere to dogma. When a person blindly adheres to a source of information without consideration for opposing viewpoints, this is dogmatic, and anyone can display this sort of behaviour. Saying that atheists don't have a foundation for having dogmatic beliefs is incorrect as well; atheists can dogmatically adhere to an influential atheist, for example.
    Allow me to wrinkle out a few nitty details

    Terminology
    Atheist + Dogma = something coherent?

    The terminology behind Atheist Dogma doesn't make a lot of sense seeing as the act of not comprehending information is universal, not relating to one's lack of belief in a deity, as you stated. I doubt that anyone here thinks that no person with a lack of belief can have the possibility of being dogmatic. What people are arguing against is that lacking belief somehow makes you dogmatic (to wards the belief in a deity?)

    The proper wording would be that to be Atheist + Dogma relates to the act of Atheist's dogmatic nature. I.e. the person who hold the theory of atheism (or some deviation of atheism) inherently dogmatic.

    ~Wille
    Last edited by Kjertesvein; August 11, 2011 at 12:59 PM.
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













    http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    The closest thing to an atheist dogma would be..

    Require proof.

    But even that would not be universally correct.
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  16. #16
    Hakkapeliitta's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    The closest thing to an atheist dogma would be..

    Require proof.

    But even that would not be universally correct.
    Sounds more like a 'skeptic' though.

    There is no atheist dogma. The only requirement in order to be an atheist is the lack a belief in gods. If that's because you've looked at the arguments/evidence presented by theists, or if you've never heard of the concept or you lack the brain capacity to comprehend it, then it's all the same: your an atheist.

    And evolution, science etc have nothing to do with atheism, nor does the lack of those, or martyrdom or salvation have anything to with theism. It just a question whether one believes in a God or not. What beliefs come after is always open.

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    Portuguese Rebel's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    Scientific theories are never dogma. Can be replaced at any moment and replaced by other one that explains data in a better way.


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  18. #18

    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    Quote Originally Posted by Portuguese Rebel View Post
    Scientific theories are never dogma. Can be replaced at any moment and replaced by other one that explains data in a better way.
    These are my thoughts exactly.

    Something like "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" is a kind of dogma. It is a kind of sensible dogma but it is a rule to abide with.
    No, it isn't dogma as it isn't laid down by an authority, it's common sense and to those who adhere to it comes from themselves.

  19. #19
    Claudius Gothicus's Avatar Petit Burgués
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    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    Quote Originally Posted by Portuguese Rebel View Post
    Scientific theories are never dogma. Can be replaced at any moment and replaced by other one that explains data in a better way.
    The problem with science is that the one's making the scientific claims are the same who follow the procedure in falsifing them. Different forms of Science can and does become dogma because of external reasons, for example Historical Materialism in Soviet Russia.

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  20. #20

    Default Re: Atheist Dogma?

    Something like "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" is a kind of dogma. It is a kind of sensible dogma but it is a rule to abide with.
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