Wulfgar's Ice Torque Map mod.

[wulfgar610]

Ok, I think I found the issue. One of the FOR files I added in was descr_sm_faction. This still had the roman rebels shadowing their respective factions, where as RIO had deleted the shadowing. This was creating a conflict with the basic RIO set up. So I delete the stuff in Red.

I'll dig up the story of shadowing which I'm unfamiliar with.

;15;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
faction empire_east, shadowed_by empire_east_rebels
culture roman
symbol models_strat/symbol_empire_east.CAS
rebel_symbol models_strat/symbol_roman_rebel.CAS
primary_colour red 120, green 48, blue 150
secondary_colour red 255, green 255, blue 141
loading_logo loading_screen/symbols/symbol128_empire_east.tga
standard_index 1
logo_index 24 ; Index into strat3.rsd
small_logo_index 244 ; Index into shared.rsd
triumph_value 5
intro_movie
victory_movie fmv/victory/empire_east_win.wmv
defeat_movie fmv/lose/empire_east_eliminated.wmv
death_movie fmv/lose/empire_east_eliminated.wmv
custom_battle_availability yes
can_sap yes
prefers_naval_invasions no
;16;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
faction empire_west, shadowed_by empire_west_rebels
culture roman
symbol models_strat/symbol_empire_west.CAS
rebel_symbol models_strat/symbol_roman_rebel.CAS
primary_colour red 164, green 20, blue 20
secondary_colour red 255, green 255, blue 141
loading_logo loading_screen/symbols/symbol128_empire_west.tga
standard_index 2
logo_index 22 ; Index into strat3.rsd
small_logo_index 245 ; Index into shared.rsd
triumph_value 5
intro_movie
victory_movie fmv/victory/empire_west_win.wmv
defeat_movie fmv/lose/empire_west_eliminated.wmv
death_movie fmv/lose/empire_west_eliminated.wmv
custom_battle_availability yes
can_sap yes
prefers_naval_invasions no
;17;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
faction empire_east_rebels, shadowing empire_east
culture roman
symbol models_strat/symbol_empire_east_rebels.CAS
rebel_symbol models_strat/symbol_roman_rebel.CAS
primary_colour red 52, green 139, blue 129
secondary_colour red 255, green 255, blue 141
loading_logo loading_screen/symbols/symbol128_empire_east_rebels.tga
standard_index 1
logo_index 249 ; Index into strat3.rsd
small_logo_index 262 ; Index into shared.rsd
triumph_value 5
intro_movie
victory_movie fmv/victory/empire_east_rebels_win.wmv
defeat_movie fmv/lose/empire_east_rebels_eliminated.wmv
death_movie fmv/lose/empire_east_rebels_eliminated.wmv
custom_battle_availability yes
can_sap yes
prefers_naval_invasions no
;18;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
faction empire_west_rebels, shadowing empire_west
culture roman
symbol models_strat/symbol_empire_west_rebels.CAS
rebel_symbol models_strat/symbol_roman_rebel.CAS
primary_colour red 81, green 129, blue 63
secondary_colour red 255, green 255, blue 141
loading_logo loading_screen/symbols/symbol128_empire_west_rebels.tga
standard_index 2
logo_index 248 ; Index into strat3.rsd
small_logo_index 261 ; Index into shared.rsd
triumph_value 5
intro_movie
victory_movie fmv/victory/empire_west_rebels_win.wmv
defeat_movie fmv/lose/empire_west_rebels_eliminated.wmv
death_movie fmv/lose/empire_west_rebels_eliminated.wmv
custom_battle_availability yes
can_sap yes
prefers_naval_invasions no

Another might have been to add in "spawned on event" for the Sarmatians.

;2;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
faction sarmatians, spawned_on_event
culture nomad
symbol models_strat/symbol_sarmatians.CAS

[wulfgar610]

Ok, I see it might have simply the western rebels that were the problem since they a established at the start of the game as "Roman Britons".

Empire east rebels are cool because they haven't emerged in the game and have this entry.

faction empire_east_rebels, balanced henry
dead_until_resurrected
re_emergent
denari 10000

I can make the empire east rebels shadow both Roman factions and perhaps even a third.

;17;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
faction empire_east_rebels, shadowing empire_east, shadowing empire_west
culture roman
symbol models_strat/symbol_empire_east_rebels.CAS

[wulfgar610]

Well I give the Eastern Rebels the on screen name of "Popular front of Rome". I can play the game on from the second last turn save. The very last turn in save 451 save will crash as per usual after one or two turns.

Having one Roman rebel faction creates a problem in that the Roman rebels can revolt back to let's say ERE in the WRE area. Which means I might take the Roman Britons off the map and rename them "Roman Popular Front." This could be tricky to do with a saved game if not impossible.

[Riothamus]

Well I give the Eastern Rebels the on screen name of "Popular front of Rome". I can play the game on from the second last turn save. The very last turn in save 451 save will crash as per usual after one or two turns.

Having one Roman rebel faction creates a problem in that the Roman rebels can revolt back to let's say ERE in the WRE area. Which means I might take the Roman Britons off the map and rename them "Roman Popular Front." This could be tricky to do with a saved game if not impossible.

I took out all the shadowing instructions-descr_sm_factions. The 434AD campaign ran until 511AD It CTD there so I'm looking to see why

Edit: ok it started up and playing out fine...possibly a path finding issue at 511...Now 518 AD and going

Advise to not use the shadow faction

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

I have an interesting Idea - you know how some units are only recruitable with certain resources? Why not make a "Fabrica" resource and have 3 different types based at (or near) historical locations:
Fabrica type in game - fabrica type in RL
Heavy - Maile, Clibanarii,
Light - Leather Corslets, Shields, Swords, spears
Artillery - Ballistae, Arrows, Bows, Crossbows

Heavy allows for Heavy cavalry and Heavy infantry
Light is Light infantry and Light Cavalry
Artillery is Archers, Ballistae, and Catapultae

I already know what you'd have to script but It's need an Icon.

EDIT: I'll test it in my MMFA's mod, should also help fix some balancing issues.

[wulfgar610]

I have an interesting Idea - you know how some units are only recruitable with certain resources? Why not make a "Fabrica" resource and have 3 different types based at (or near) historical locations:

As far as I work out on costing, even though mail was expensive it was well within the means of the Empire to equip most troops. A very cheap basic kit without mail. Cheap or no helmet, leather armor, cheap sword, spear and shield. Works out to be something like 1 solidi p.a., while a quality heavy kit might cost 3 or 4 solidi per annum. Considering the very lowest rank soldier will still cost at least 10 solidi p.a. in food, clothing and stipend, an expensive kit is only an accessory cost.

I suspect it had become practice to lock up much arms and armor to prevent rebellions and illegal arms trading. And in less serious battles such as pursuing raiders the heavy infantry may have only worn leather armor for speed of movement.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

@ Rio and Wulfgar - agreed I've experimented with the Shadow faction for the WRE to make Bacaudae and I had to re-script all the files after that. It's not worth the effort it would take and I believe to get it to work properly you'd be getting into the Engine itself.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Yeah they're down in spain if I'm correct.

[wulfgar610]

Yeah they're down in spain if I'm correct.

One day when you get a big computer and can try out Rio's, you'll discover Rio has 5 factions in Britain. The West rebels are used to create one of the two post Roman British successor states.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Actually, I have a Sony Vaio from 2000 and it can Run RTW (1.2 GHz processor, 64mb GFX, 256 MB RAM)

[wulfgar610]

Feeling that urge to the be late Roman again. I last playing Matrix's "war in the east" a WW2 game. But late Rome is my real love.

Now where was I? Ah yes can't get past winter 482, game crashes when I complete the turn.

[wulfgar610]

Ok, things that can cause a crash on the campaign turn.

During play/AI turn:

- some of these may also occur on first turn if error is triggered early....

A family member being generated without a general_unit for the faction.
A new character is generated and not given a valid name. eg a name in descr_names.txt which does not have corresponding entry in names.txt

Bad character name file: To check for this, try Saving before End Turn. If it crashes then it is the bad name file as it creates an error during creation of a saved game and End Turn is (on default) auto-sav.

Building bonuses in the same building level as unit recruitment strings with building conditional (this will happen both during AI turn and when the building is right-clicked) (for v 1.5 and later)
Right clicking unit recruitment strings with building conditional (for v 1.5 and later)
Units able to be recruited in EDB but no faction "ownership" for a faction in EDU.
Units added to descr_rebel_factions.txt but no slave faction ownership in EDU.
Units added to descr_mercenaries.txt but no mercenary_unit in EDU.
Bad defined type of unit for army spawned via script file
Trait triggers in export_desc_character_traits.txt with the same name (occurs when 1st trigger fires)
CTD on revolt to faction - occurs when mercenary unit is present, no garrison, or more than 1 / 2 units garrison is present and no units are recruitable by the faction that will take city after revolt see this thread.
experience upgrade for ships in EDB causes CTD when higher level port is built, if ships with the lower experience level are in the recruitment queue
some changes made to sm_factions, require deletion of the map.rwm - failure to do this gives random CTD a few turns in

Well it seems to have been a lack of names for the female characters. Must have had a hundred female family members and the single names were being duplicated. I added in more female names and was able to progress to 483.

[Joar]

I added in more female names and was able to progress to 483.

Good news!

[Riothamus]

Did you remove the shadow faction as I recommended as I found it caused the CTD while testing it. The mod version you have was modified to play with out it. Also the final port (experience upgrade)I fixed some time ago as it caused a ctd..possibly an issue with the files you are currently using. The scarcity of female names should not be causing a ctd

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Agreed Wulfgar, I've noticed that Rio's scripts are rather... funny (no offense). Simplifying the Building system alone would drastically improve the game, not to mention simplifying recruitment. Right now I've decided not to use his mod as a base and simply convert MMFA's mod over to alex, and then start working from there, adding in the IBUR elements fromt hat point.

[wulfgar610]

Agreed Wulfgar, I've noticed that Rio's scripts are rather... funny (no offense). Simplifying the Building system alone would drastically improve the game, not to mention simplifying recruitment. Right now I've decided not to use his mod as a base and simply convert MMFA's mod over to alex, and then start working from there, adding in the IBUR elements fromt hat point.

I'd assume that there is a method behind the 'madness', that is RIO is trying to compensate for the dumb AI and give the game some structure. Any modder has quite a battle on his hands as regards balance.

Ice Torque's game is the basis of RIO's 450 AD campaign and appears to be very simply BI. Ice only has 16 regions in Britain & Ireland compared the RIO's 30, so it might prove a disappointment.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Actually that's good I don't like 30 regions in britan and only 10 in gaul

[wulfgar610]

My god those TW city walls are way over sized!!! The Epic stone wall is 100 feet high, but by the looks of things the tallest walls built in ancient times only got to between 40 and 50 feet. That doesn't even make the height of TW's 70 foot "large stone wall".
Looks like the basic stone wall of TW was about as big as it usually got.

The Spanish city of Lugo has almost perfectly preserved provincial Roman walls enclosing about 40 Ha. By the looks of things they are about 30 feet high. We see 20 foot stone walls in smaller scenarios.

As big as the TW walls are they are still useless at defense, other than the arrow firing.

So I think the "Epic wall" is right out of the picture and the "large stone wall" only allowed for key capital cities.

Here's some 25 mm model siege towers for coping with 10 foot walls. A far cry from the legions of Helepolis in TW.

[Joar]

Looks like the basic stone wall of TW was about as big as it usually got.

Yes, that's one of the thing I've always tweaked in any mod I played. I could never stand the enormous walls of RTW.

[wulfgar610]

Yes, that's one of the thing I've always tweaked in any mod I played. I could never stand the enormous walls of RTW.

What would be nice would a be modded range of walls that duplicating what there was in reality. The standard stone wall was about as big as provincial walls got, but there were smaller stone walls.
Although defending the central plaza can work quite well when exhaustion and fear affects the besiegers. Historically even a small number of defenders could keep a larger force at bay.