Bran and Joffrey (Do not enter unless you want some spoliers, eh?)

**khatmar** · August 09, 2011, 03:15 PM

So... I am confused. I quit my second read of AFFC (mainly because of annoying Brienne chapers, yes, we know she is not gonna succeed and the only intersting side story behind her search for Sansa is UnCat and Rorge/Hound/Sandor stuff and because of boring and hateful Cersei chapters) and started ADWD.

But. Im still not sure who made an attempt on Brans life? Was it Joff? It says something like it in the end of ASOS (I think, Tyrions chapers? Or was it Varys?) But more importantly,

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

I... Martin just never explains anything. He leaves it lying, unexplained and just moves on. Like he forgets about it. It can really make me angry sometimes. (Or I just cant remember, really)

**Melfice** · August 09, 2011, 03:31 PM

Joffrey is the one who hired the assassin to kill Bran, he over-heard (a little drunk) robert say that it was kinder to kill bran that to let him live as a crippel

**donions** · August 09, 2011, 03:41 PM

Joffrey stole a dagger from Robert's ample supply, and gave it to a camp follower/low-life to use on Bran after the Royal Family left Winterfell. Joffrey overheard Robert saying how it would be a mercy to just kill Bran rather then let him be a cripple.
Doesnt seem too bright on Joffrey's part, but then again, his mother is Cersei and his only influence is The Hound. So expectations are lowered.
We learn most of this from The Lannisters; Tyrion, Cersei, Jamie.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**KamikazeFTW** · August 09, 2011, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by donions

Joffrey stole a dagger from Robert's ample supply, and gave it to a camp follower/low-life to use on Bran after the Royal Family left Winterfell. Joffrey overheard Robert saying how it would be a mercy to just kill Bran rather then let him be a cripple.
Doesnt seem too bright on Joffrey's part, but then again, his mother is Cersei and his only influence is The Hound. So expectations are lowered.
We learn most of this from The Lannisters; Tyrion, Cersei, Jamie.

As for Joff's death, does anyone really know for certain? Petyr claims he did it with Dontos's and possibly Olenna Tyrell's help. Olenna is the 1 who takes the poison from Sansa's hairnet. It may have been the Tyrell's acting alone tho and Petyr just trying to win Sansa's favor with a lie.
There's also a line from Tywin before Joff's death that raises alarms; something along the lines of "the boy needs a sharp lesson". Tywin is just ruthless enough to kill his own grandson to prevent another Mad-king.

If I gotta take a guess it was Petyr with Olenna's help. Petyr did spend months with the Tyrell's when he was negotiating the marriage between Joff and Margery. And it's always been his plan to cause chaos so when he makes his move his enemies will be weakened. What better way to turn a powerful foe like Cersei into a cruel, hateful fool then by killing her first-born? It worked like a charm.

wow, I never thought Tywin would do that. I wouldn't be surprised if he did though, but you're right, it is most likely Petyr and the Queen of ~~Awesomeness~~ Thorns that did the deed

**History_Buff** · August 09, 2011, 08:48 PM

I don't think that Petyr was a co-conspirator with the Tyrell's. I think he just knew how Olenna would react to hearing how Joffrey really was.

**JonDarkstar** · August 10, 2011, 06:02 AM

It was the Tyrell's that killed Joffrey because they knew that he was a horrible evil brat and they didn't want Margeary to have to live with him and be beaten and abused etc.

**History_Buff** · August 10, 2011, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by JonDarkstar

It was the Tyrell's that killed Joffrey because they knew that he was a horrible evil brat and they didn't want Margeary to have to live with him and be beaten and abused etc.

They were actually just as concerned about Loras. They were afraid that the the first time that Joffrey hit Margery, Loras would kill him. It is stated several times that this might happen do to the rage he has bottled up. I like how one person put it. "Put Loras, Margarey, and Joffrey in a pot and you got the makings of Kingslayer stew."

**KamikazeFTW** · August 09, 2011, 03:41 PM

so joffrey stole the fancy knife, and told some catspaw to use it.
and now you know why the murderer had that valyrian knife

**KamikazeFTW** · August 09, 2011, 03:42 PM

aaaaaahh Donion! c'mon man

**khatmar** · August 10, 2011, 08:40 AM

Hmm... How come I missed this? Damn. Seems like I need to read ASOS again. I mean, I noticed one of the rubies (or whatever it was) gone missing from Sansas net and it was given to her (I think) by Ser Dontos, ergo Littlefinger. Right?

But the Loras/Margaery/Joffrey/Tyrell stuff makes a lot of sense.

**JonDarkstar** · August 10, 2011, 11:53 AM

Ah yes, I had forgotten about Loras.

**Jaime Goldenhand** · August 10, 2011, 04:40 PM

Petyr definitely was part of the plot to kill joffrey. How else do you explain him promising to pay Dontos who was responsible for getting Sansa to wear the hairnet that contained the poison that Ollena used to kill Joffrey.