Some Baktrian and Ptolemaic issues

[Boriak]

Since I have questions about two civilizations, I thought they could share the thread. You are welcome to post similar questions so we don't start new threads everytime (yes, this means those 'how do I get the reforms' threads).

I started a Baktria (almost wrote Baklava ) campaign, where I immediately went on the offensive. I conquered Alexandria-Ariana and Prophthasia from the Seleucids (cities to the south of Baktria), then my armies went thin and I resorted to turtling up to get some cash. I repelled some Seleucid invasions, got some heroic victories. In 265 BC, I went to take Kophen to increase my trade which was a close victory due to my bringing few units. Now, in 260 BC, I see a 20-unit stack of Seleucids coming towards Baktra. They have everything from Pezhetaroi, Babylonian spearmen, archers and slingers, while all I have in Baktra are some Persian Archer-Spearmen, Levy phalanx and slingers. I seriously doubt I will be able to beat that full stack with my 4 units, even if I put that phalanx on a river ford.

I knew the Seleucids would try to kill me but this is new. Do people playing Baktria regularly see full stacks of Seleucids in early campaign? If so, how do you beat them to continue the campaign?


Now, a question about Ptolemies. I started a second Egyptian campaign, the first one simply got boring. I did manage to push the Seleucids into Persia, at which point I figured I need to move my capitol. So I changed it from Alexandreia to Damascus. This caused all my African cities to get a serious distance penalty, most of which Ethiopian cities (Axum, Meroe, Ptolemais-Theron). Also, Ptolemies must conquer Arabia to win the game, meaning even more provinces far to the south.

Where do you place your capitol in the late Egyptian campaign? Do you allow those southern cities to expand or keep them small to avoid high unhappines levels? Do you put FMs in them, keep a large garrison? To build Law temples and other Law structures is a given.

[athanaric]

About Baktria:

Try to hole up in Baktra and whittle down the attackers with successive sallies. Try to hire some mercs as well, preferrably archer-spearmen because of their damage potential (missile output) and their low price.

[ShanKed]

Try lowering taxes in the outer territories and keep some 4 cheap units as a garrison and a governor. Build health,law and happines buildings. Don't build farms,markets, etc. Use lvl 4 governments in the southern arabian cities.

[Boriak]

Well, my Baktrian campaign has hit a wall. The Saka have arrived at my doorstep and my economy is not nearly strong enough to tackle them. My forces are stretched thin all over the south, trying to hold the conquered Seleucid cities. I've just lost a bridge battle against a large stack of AS forces; I had only a single understrength phalanx unit to defend it. It would be pointless to continue this campaign.

So, for my next try at Baktria, I think I need to redo my way of thinking. The main problem is effectively distrubuting funds and armies. All eastern cities are too far apart for me to protect them well. No money for phalanxes, I resorted to skirmisher garrisons.

So: was my main mistake playing on VH/M difficulty? Is the AI too aggresive at VH for Baktria?

[TWWolfe]

With Baktria, you want to go east and secure the rich indian cities before you deal with the Selucids.

[Boriak]

But the rich Indian cities are heavily defended. If I take all my forces east, I leave nothing to defend Baktra.

[TWWolfe]

YOu won't need to if you don't Make the Seleucids angry at you. and you have quite a few turns before they can gear up and send anythign bad at you, since they will likely be dealing with Pahlava and Saka and will leave you alone.

AS to the Indian defenses, a large part of that is elephants, who typically also get assigned as the AI generals. introduce them to javelins, and the indians fall like wheat. they also tend to sally in the first turn since the elephant gives an advantage to auto resolve.

[athanaric]

Also take archers with you to deal with the enemy infantry. Don't waste any arrows shooting at the elephants though. Javelins are the way to deal with them. If you're using Akontistai/Gund-î Paltâ, take care that they don't rout when engaging elephants.

[Boriak]

Honestly, I'm not sure if I've ever fought against elephants before. I hope phalanxes will be useful because the garrison in Taksashila just got boosted for a few Indian bowmen and Guild fighters. So far all I have are the initial units: levy phalanx, Persian archers, Persian archer-spearmen. I seriously doubt this will be enough.

[athanaric]

Honestly, I'm not sure if I've ever fought against elephants before. I hope phalanxes will be useful because the garrison in Taksashila just got boosted for a few Indian bowmen and Guild fighters. So far all I have are the initial units: levy phalanx, Persian archers, Persian archer-spearmen. I seriously doubt this will be enough.

Leave the phalanx at home - when taking Indian cities, they're just good as arrow fodder or for stopping cavalry. Have them garrison Baktra, which will discourage AI factions from attacking (because pikemen are strong in autoresolve). Take at least three skirmisher units instead. Your archers are useful for killing as many Indian archers, Guild Warriors and spearmen at range as possible. Focus fire on the Indian archers because they're dangerous in melee and you don't want them to survive the initial phase. Keep the javelineers out of arrow range (hidden in the grass, if possible) until you have a chance to directly confront the elephants.
If Guild Warriors emerge, shoot them with your remaining arrows. If you have javelins left after destroying the elephants, use them on the Guild Warriors. Don't engage them in melee unless they're really shaken or you can charge them in the back with cavalry. One on one, they'll defeat any of your units (including pikemen and bodyguards), so make sure you don't face them in a street fight or something like that.
The enemy cavalry unit (Taxilan Agema) can be defeated in melee by spearmen and/or bodyguards, but they're really tough buggers, so proceed carefully.

On the whole, the Indian units' chief weakness is vulnerability to missiles (except for the Agema), so try to exploit that. And again, arrows don't kill elephants - javelins do. Also remember that an elephant-mounted general unit is almost impossible to rout (and to make run amok) - unless you kill the general with a lucky shot during the first few volleys. Which does happen fairly often.

[Boriak]

Well, I took Taksashila. The buggers didn't sally until they had no other choice. You're right, the phalanx is worthless against elephants, but at least it killed the Indo-Iranian heavy cavalry and it held the Guild warriors at bay long enough for me to flank them.

The problem was I ran out of arrows too soon. My skirmishers (I had one unit of Baktrian skirmishers and a unit of Eastern skirmishers) were able to take down elephants considerably and with relative ease. When the elephants reached my phalanx, I decided to see what happens if I charge my general's bodyguard into their back. The charge took down two elephants, among them the AI general which caused the unit of elephants to rout.

For taking the next Indian city I will use more skirmishers and more archer-spearmen, though I'm still thinking if I should take a phalanx unit with me as well.

About my neighbours: I've been giving the Seleucids tribute from the beginning and so far they stayed friendly. They even took care of some rebels on my land. So far they still hold the Saka back. Pahlava hasn't expanded though they achieved some considerable victories against Seleucids. The Seleucids themselves took all the rebel provinces south of Baktra (Pura and Alexandropolis). When I sent my spy to Patala, I found a Seleucid army besieging it. They were in India before I was! Of course on auto-resolve they didn't stand a change against those elephants.

[TWWolfe]

Elephants are fairly easy to fight if they are sallying and you have troops with javelins. The Ai generals tend to go on the elephant units, and since they tend to go out the gate first and all the other troops clog up behind them, a few volleys of javelins will run them amok and devastate the enemy army, and then you just move in and mop up the demoralized remains.

[delra]

About Baktria, yea you're Greek and stuff - but you should go nomad. Get your own horse archers (Dahae kind, they also are light cavalry) and use them to harass Seleukid stacks, they are the heroic victory machine in this game. Play like you were Pahlava, but with Phalanxes defending your cities (which makes you unbeatable in the field and at the gates).

About Ptolemies, maybe you should switch to Type IV in the crappy cities and get some local governors?