The Hinduism Thread

[The Fish]

Seeing that some people are unfamiliar with the basics of Hinduism, as evidenced in the "Your religious beliefs?" thread, I thought I'd start an informative thread to explain some of the very basics of Hinduism and hopefully get some questions answered. So here goes:

1. What does "Hindu" even mean?
Ironically, the word "Hindu" isn't even Indian in origin. The actual Sanskrit word for the various religious traditions of India that share some common textual bases (e.g. the Vedas, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, etc.) is "Sanatana Dharma." This literally translates into "Eternal way of life." The word "Hindu" was how the Persians referred to people who lived near the Sindhu (Indus) river.

Early on, then, it referred more to Indians in general than to any particular religious group. After the Islamic invasions and British colonialism, though, Hinduism was a sort of umbrella term given to everyone who wasn't Muslim (Jains, Buddhists, Sikhs, etc., which are much smaller in number, also were given their own classifications). As a result, to ask the question: "What do Hindus believe?" will elicit a huge range of different answers, because there are so many different philosophical and theological interpretations of the core texts.

2. "OK, so what ties Hindus together?"
Apart from Sanskrit, which is the language in which most religious ceremonies are carried out (although regional languages also play important roles), the texts that the many Hindu denominations hold in esteem are the Vedas (perhaps the oldest surviving texts in the world), the Upanishads, the Puranas (mythic stories), and Ithihasas (the epics). The latter consist of the Ramayana and the Mahabharata, which is the longest epic poem in the world (about 7 times bigger than Homer's Iliad and Odyssey combined).

3. Is Hinduism monothestic or polytheistic?
As mentioned before, there is no one answer to this question. However, most of the major Hindu philosophical branches are ultimately monotheistic, while still having many Gods. While this may seem like a contradiction, it has to do with the relative place of these Gods. The Upanishads, especially, place great emphasis on the supreme God Brahman. Interpreting the nature of Brahman, though, has been where different theological branches have differed greatly.

Some consider the various Hindu Gods to simply be different manifestation of Brahman. Others, though, hold that there is a hierarchy within these Gods. The Vaishnava tradition, for instance, holds that Vishnu and his avatars (Krishna, Rama, etc.) represent the supreme form of Brahman. In this tradition, Gods such as Siva are exalted souls, but are ultimately sucetible to the cycle of reincarnation, as are all souls that aren't Brahman.

This is a VERY cursory look at Hindu theology...explaining it in any detail would take a very long time.

4. Yeah, so what's the deal with reincarnation, anyway?
Again, in a very simple manner, I'll try to explain reincarnation...I'll also do it from the viewpoint of the Hindu philosophical position I most identify with, for simplcity.

All souls except for Brahman and those that have achieved enlightenment or release (nirvana or moksha) are constantly being reincarnated. Our present position in life (we are humans, we come from a certain socio-economic background, we have a certain family, etc.) is based on our past karma. Basically, if we are jerks, we'll have to pay for it. If we're nice, something nice happens to us. This cycle of birth, death, and rebirth continues, and has continued for an unimaginably long time. It will continue until we break from the cycle. How we do that is a whole another bag of beans, which I won't get into.

Well, this is about all I can stand to write right now, and I'm sure most people have probably given up reading by now. Anyway, I hope this helps at least some people get a beginning glance at Hinduism. Again, I hope this thread can be a place where people can ask questions, and I (and other knowledgable people) can try to answer them.

[katsusand]

Thanx for the info man ....

Peace....

[AngryTitusPullo]

Thank you very much. Better than my interpretation (or misinterpretation) in the other thread.

[The Fish]

Thank you very much. Better than my interpretation (or misinterpretation) in the other thread.

Your interpretation was heading in the right direction. Hinduism can be pretty esoteric for someone not familiar with it. Once you get a little bit into it, though, its teachings become a lot more universal. There's a greater need to look past the stereotypes and misconceptions, I think.

BTW, Titus Pullo rocks. "13!!!! 13!!!" I nearly fell out of my chair during that scene.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Your interpretation was heading in the right direction. Hinduism can be pretty esoteric for someone not familiar with it. Once you get a little bit into it, though, its teachings become a lot more universal. There's a greater need to look past the stereotypes and misconceptions, I think.

BTW, Titus Pullo rocks. "13!!!! 13!!!" I nearly fell out of my chair during that scene.

:no :no I prefer the part where he freed what that gals name only to find that gal was infact in love with another slave... then he killed that guy. :laughing: :laughing:

Just kidding... Thanks for the explaination.

Note: Not to preach or debate or anything. Just an opinion.

In Islam we have this 99 names of Allah, like Al-Rahman, Al-Rahim, Al-Hamid etc. I wish I have the English translation , but these are 'zat' or maybe attributes to Him , which means Most Beautiful, Most Powerful, Most Compassionate etc. which can be see here

My Hindu friend did ask me before isn't muslim have 99 gods ? :no

MIght this be the same concept. Much like anciet greek gods , started with one , Jupiter maybe then manifested to others which is actually his attributes only.

[MasterAdnin]

Good job Fish. I've heard a lot of people saying Hinduism is a polytheistic religion, it wasn't me though . lol

Adnan

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

Thanks for the info. Hinduism is most often misunderstood as "idolotry". Those who support this view are very narrow-minded. Many people also don't know that Hinduism, in it's day, spread all the way accross into Cambodia.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

An excellent post, Fish, and it is well interpreted. If I may add something...

Hell
There is no one hell, as in Christianity, there are many hellish planets in the universe. First, we have to realise that Hinduism reaches far from the Earth. The planet Pluto is where the Lord of Death, Yamaraja, resides (he is a demi-god) and doles out his punishments. People are punished for their bad actions, and rewarded for their good. One must accept the fact that he will go to hell sooner or later, but hell is not an eternal state. It is a place where you are punished, then are set free to roam the cycle of reincarnation once more. The more evil and disobedient to Nature's laws, both subtle and obvious, you are, the more time in hell.

Heaven
This is not like Christianity, again. Heaven is ultimate paridise, although it is not the only one of them. Heaven, if one takes it literally, is a place where there is no death, no ageing, only beauty and prosperity. A famous quote, from Srila Vysadev, is that "if one takes the happiest moment of his life, multiplies it by billions, he will not get a fraction of the bliss in the spiritual world."

[The Fish]

Thanks for the positive replies, guys. Seeing as people have some interest in Hinduism, I thought I'd write another post on the basics of the Hinduism's concept of the soul, since it differs pretty greatly from that found among the Abrahamic religions (I hope I won't bore everyone too much). For the sake of simplicity, I won't explain all the different phiosophical schools in Hinduism, just the one I identify the most with. So be advised that asking another Hindu may elicit a somewhat different response.

So, in Hindu cosmology, everything is cyclical. A person is born, lives, dies, and is reborn, in an endless cycle (until they reach enlightenment/release). Similarly, the universe and time are cyclical. The universe is created, it expands and is populated, and is eventually destroyed, before being created again. Similarly, there are countless parallel universes, all going through the same cycles of creation and destruction. So what is constant? What transcends these cycles?

There are 3 constants in Hindu philosophy that are never created, and never destroyed: the soul of God (param-atma, literally, "ultimate soul"), the personal soul (jiv-atma, literally, soul of the living), and matter (Sanskrit: prakriti). Our personal soul is just as eternal as God, was never created, and can never be destroyed (even by God). Similarly, matter is shaped by God to create the universe, but it was never created, and it can never be destroyed.

The param-atma is transcendental; all matter is infused with His energy, and the universe is maintained because of it. Thus, our bodies contain the three constants: the physical body consists of matter, the spark of conciousness is the personal soul, and the sustaining/animating principle is the soul of God. The most spiritually satisfying and blissful state for the personal soul, jiv-atma is in being united with the param-atma. The universe exists as a conduit through which this unification can happen. So reincarnation exists as a way in which the soul keeps trying to achieve spiritual self-realization. Very simply, this is eventually achieved through fostering a mindset of peace (both external and internal), knowledge, self-introspection, devotion, and realization.

[stop-3]

Trouble with trying to describe Hinduism is that it's broken up into millions of bits over the eons.
One hindoo bloke told me that the reason for the worship of the cows is that human mothers are reincarnated into cows. He was quite instistent about it - the cows that you see wandering around the streets (in India) are actually the living reincarnated beings of human mothers. There was no argument or discussion about this - he just told me. I got the distinct impression that he didn't believe this or was unsure. Nice lad - intelligent and of low caste. Caste system seems integral to hinduism.

[The Fish]

Trouble with trying to describe Hinduism is that it's broken up into millions of bits over the eons.
One hindoo bloke told me that the reason for the worship of the cows is that human mothers are reincarnated into cows. He was quite instistent about it - the cows that you see wandering around the streets (in India) are actually the living reincarnated beings of human mothers. There was no argument or discussion about this - he just told me. I got the distinct impression that he didn't believe this or was unsure. Nice lad - intelligent and of low caste. Caste system seems integral to hinduism.

"Cow worship" is one of those misconceptions about Hinduism that are hard to disperse from the collective imagination. As far as I know, cows are not actively worshiped in India (again, because of the diversity of Hinduism, there may be some people who do this, but I have never run across any). Cows are respected in Hinduism, because they represent the nurturing/mothering instinct of the Earth itself. The Earth/nature spirit is often represented as a cow, because cows lovingly give milk to their calves without asking for anything in return, just as the Earth provides us with resources and life without demanding anything in return. Historically, cows and bulls provided sustenance/work (milk, butter, used to plow fields) to their human owners, and thus they were appreciated as being an important resource. The idea grew that, just as we should take what we need from the Earth without harming it, we should take what we need from cows without harming or killing them. There are, however, no altars or temples built with the purpose of worshipping cows, as far as I am aware.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Random fact: There are temples of almost all animals in India, except for cows.

[The Fish]

An excellent post, Fish, and it is well interpreted. If I may add something...

Hell
There is no one hell, as in Christianity, there are many hellish planets in the universe. First, we have to realise that Hinduism reaches far from the Earth. The planet Pluto is where the Lord of Death, Yamaraja, resides (he is a demi-god) and doles out his punishments. People are punished for their bad actions, and rewarded for their good. One must accept the fact that he will go to hell sooner or later, but hell is not an eternal state. It is a place where you are punished, then are set free to roam the cycle of reincarnation once more. The more evil and disobedient to Nature's laws, both subtle and obvious, you are, the more time in hell.

Heaven
This is not like Christianity, again. Heaven is ultimate paridise, although it is not the only one of them. Heaven, if one takes it literally, is a place where there is no death, no ageing, only beauty and prosperity. A famous quote, from Srila Vysadev, is that "if one takes the happiest moment of his life, multiplies it by billions, he will not get a fraction of the bliss in the spiritual world."

It is also of interest that, in Hinduism, there is no Satan figure, no entity bent on corrupting humanity. Yama, the god of death, is also referred to as Dharma Raja (literally, the lord of righteousness). He is the defender of righteousness, and is a supremely objective judge of a person's karma. This is part of the reason why there is no drive for prosletization in Hinduism. Since it has never been a particularly organized religion, adherence to it has never been tied to how one does in the afterlife. An atheist who helps the poor and doesn't steal is, karmically, much better off than a "Hindu" who rapes and pillages. In the end, the only advantage of Hinduism (from a Hindu's perspective), is that its teachings provide the best way of reaching spiritual self-realization. How good a person is, though, is not tied to what that person's religion (or lack thereof) is.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

there is no Satan figure.

Here I disagree. There may be no powerful figure that opposes God, but there is a being that corrupts mankind. His name is Kali (not the goddess Kallee) and there are many stories and cantoes around him. For example, it was he who had the curse placed on Maharaja Pariksit, as he was destined, and Pariksit allowed him to stay on Earth due to Vedic laws.

[The Fish]

Here I disagree. There may be no powerful figure that opposes God, but there is a being that corrupts mankind. His name is Kali (not the goddess Kallee) and there are many stories and cantoes around him. For example, it was he who had the curse placed on Maharaja Pariksit, as he was destined, and Pariksit allowed him to stay on Earth due to Vedic laws.

An excellent point, Spartacus. However, as I see it, Kali is less of a physical being than he is a collection of vices that lead to spiritual downfall. It is true that Pariksit sees him as a man beating a bull, which is standing on one leg, but this vision is full of symbolism. The man is the symbol of the evils of the age of Kali (the fourth epoch in Hindu cosmology, which we now live in), and the bull standing on one leg represents dharma (righteousness). In the first epoch, this bull is standing on four legs, fully secure. In the next, it is standing on three legs, and so on. In the fourth, when Pariksit sees it, it is tenuously standing on one leg.

But the important part of the story is that Kali tells the king that he is only doing his job as part of the greater universal order. Pariksit therefore tells him that his residing place will be in ill-gotten wealth, places where women are mistreated, etc. In that sense, Kali is not as much as external force as he is the demon that resides within all human nature. Unlike Satan, who has a motive to corrupt humanity as part of a greater struggle with God, Kali is a part of human nature. In the story, that aspect of everyone, which is said to be especially strong in the fourth epoch, was intuited by Pariksit. The fact that it is an internal aspect of everyone is evidenced by Pariksit's curse. When he feels slighted by a sage's failure to acknowledge his presence (the sage was deep in meditation), he commits an act of disrespect, which angers the sage's son, who curses the king. In that situation, Kali manifested itself as the irrational anger in the king at the perceived slight. It is also notable that the sage's son, who himself acted out of anger, was chastised by his father for not controlling his inner demons. All in all, a complex but intriguing episode.

[The Fish]

I wasn't sure where to put this, so I decided to quasi-resurrect this thread.

Hindu temple in Maple Grove, MN vandalized
http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S15410.html?cat=1

The police aren't treating this as a hate crime??? Something rotten in the state of Minnesota...

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Well, yeah, that could be classed as a hate crime. I, personally, think its just some stupid people that felt like being the rednecks they are Remember what it says in the Vedas, we shouldn't hate.

[The Fish]

If this had been a synagogue or mosque, though, I wonder if it would have been classified a hate crime. I'm pretty sure it would have at least gotten more media coverage. I think that, in America at least, a greater preponderance of public attention is given to Abrahamic religions over others. This makes sense, since there are more adherents of these religions in America, but I think that sometimes it can lead to a sort of double-standard, as in this case. The lack of public knowledge about non-Abrahamic religions also fosters the very sort of crimes of ignorance that occurred in this instance; it's one more reason Americans need to learn more about the outside world.

My pedantic tendencies have gotten the better of me, and I thought I'd come out with another information-post.

The Upanishads

The texts that solidify Hinduism as one of, if not the, most philosophically prolific and advanced of the major spiritual traditions currently around are the Upanishads. Literally translated as "To sit down near," the very name is meant to evoke the image of students learning at the feet of a master.

In Hindu tradition, the Upanishads are considered of equal value to the Vedas, and indeed the two together make up Vedic literature. Often times, therefore,
the two are collectively referred to as the Vedas, with the Vedas proper being termed "Karma kanda," literally, the section dealing with actions (namely rituals and the like), and the Upanishads being the "Gnana Kanda," the part dealing with wisdom (through the use of philosophy and reasoned argument). In truth, the two go hand in hand, as the Upanishads are sort of the Cliff's Notes of the Vedas, describing and referring to rituals and explaining their philosophical and spiritual importance.

In structure, the Upanishads are almost uniformly given in the form of conversations, usually between a master and a disciple or disciples. In all of these, debates and reasoned arguments are banied back and forth, until a resolution is reached. These are often still cryptic for the modern reader, which is why a myriad of very different Hindu philosophical schoools exist today. The questions and arguments that exist in the Upanishads are extremely interesting, and surprising for a religious text. There are a number of sections, for example, in which the existence of God is openly questioned, which is partly the reason why there are actually ancient atheistic schools of thought within Hinduism, which actually draw their ideas from the Upanishads (see the Charvaka philosophy).

The Upanishads are what solidify Hinduism as a monotheistic religion (for most people). The myriad references to different Deities in the Vedas are tempered by the Upanishads' references to Brahman. The nature of Brahman and his relationships with us is a hotly debated subject which I won't begin to explain here, but suffice to say it has spawned a number of Hindu denominations.

Finally, a note on the legacy of the Upanishads: they spawned not only a renaissance in ancient Indian thought, but they also led to the rise of Jainism and Buddhism, two religions that borrowed heavily from the philosophy presented in these texts. Indeed, the Buddha's ideas were largely adapted from an older set of Hindu beliefs known as the Samkhya school. In short, though the Upanishads are not particularly well known, they nonetheless represent an amazing body of philosophical reasoning and thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upanishads

[PyrrhusIV]

The Fish,

As a follower of Hare Krishna (Though not as seriously as I should) I enjoy this thread greatly. It really helps people understand the culture and beliefs of India, and it's religions worldwide.

[The Fish]

Another installment of my attempts at being pedantic:
The Nature of Divinity in Hinduism, or What's with all the arms?

All thestic religions speak to the nature of the Divine, and often times different denominations or sects within a particular religion differ as to this basic concept. Nowhere is this more pronounced than in Hinduism, and it is for this reason that Hinduism can't really be called an organized religion at all; Hindu sects run the gambit from atheism to agnoticism to nihilism to everything in between. I'll speak to what one particular school of thought in Hinduism believes, and though it is a prominent school, it is by no means the only one.

Outsiders to Hinduism are often confused and off-put by the images they see of multi-armed deities, often depicted with animals or other forms of imagery, and they therefore fail to see the unprecedented philisophical depth that lies beneath this layer. The fact is, depite the paintings and idols that confer specific forms upon Hindu deities, Brahman (God) is far more subtle than the Jehovah of Abrahamic religions. Quite simply, according to Hinduism, it is impossible to fathom the true form of God, because it lies beyond our comprehension. Instead, the forms we have now (e.g. Vishnu being blue-skinned, with four arms) are the glimpses of Brahman divined by the Vedic sages when they were in the depths of meditation. These forms are full of metaphor; for instance, Vishnu's four arms are described as representing the four necessities of life: righteousness, fulfillment of desire, wealth, and finally liberation. In this way, Brahman has provided us with images we can comprehend, and which teach us ways to reach spiritual enlightenment and liberation from the cycle of reincarnation. It is important to stress, though, that this does not mean that the image of Vishnu is somehow not real or contrived; it is real insofar as it existed in the minds of the sages as part of their meditation, Vishnu as Brahman is simply not LIMITED to this form. He has taken it for our benefit on our path to self-realization. I'll try to add a few more thoughts in a couple of days...