Building Protectorates and Sophisticated Limes

[First Citizen Gallienus]

I was wondering if someone would be up to the challenge of creating some sort of guideline for us SAI players, new and old, on how to build up strong protectorates and sophisticated limes as it says on my topic title. I've seen Knonfoda do a very good job, amongst others, and I've kind of wondered how some of you guys are able to stabilize the borders so quickly. Other countries it seems, all they ever want to do is have a war with me! Though I guess one of the reasons would be the fact that in my Constantius II campaign 355 AD, the Franks and Alemanni were giving Julian a good thrashing. In any event the Franks offered an alliance, I accepted, which eventually broke my alliance with the west to a neutral setting. As soon as this happened however Armenia attacks.... Thoughts anyone?

[Knonfoda]

Hi AirAssault,

I just read this and realised there were no replies.

I'm not going to write a guide, more of a 'hints and tips' post for players wanting to emulate the roman limes and protectorate system.

First off, force_diplomacy is a must. The RTW AI is notoriously unrealistic and needlessly hostile to the player, something which produces ahistorical results and diplomatic situations, eg a faction not agreeing to your demands when their last city is under siege, with one unit defending it, against say 3-4 stacks of your uber legionaries. Thus, you need to download or install the force_diplomacy script.

Secondly, use it *only* when you have the target faction at their knees. Historically, some tribes were easy to subdue, others weren't and fought to the end, but most agreed to terms once devastation and destruction was brought upon them, their peoples, their lands and their cities. This is the best time to create a 'buffer zone' or 'amicus populi romani' - friends of rome states which were in reality vassal and buffer states of the Roman Empire.

To give an example, in Germania and Dacia playing IBSAI, you have many tribes which can be used to form a buffer between yourself and the more 'hostile' tribes. The Franks can be subdued and used to make a buffer zone against the Alemanni (or vice versa) the Quadi against the Goths, etc etc etc. Needless to say, you must first almost destroy the factions you wish to make slaves of. Destroy their armies, leave them with one remaining city, and then force them through force_diplomacy to become your vassal. But you must also honour your part of the deal.

As a protector, you must also defend them, and you need to judge whether a certain faction is worth protecting/making a buffer state out of and if their lands are defensible. If they are not, then there is little point and you may as well stay on your side of the limes. To add more realism, you can then 'extend' the limes to their own borders, building forts in their territory to simulate your control of the land and their 'safety', manning it with auxilia and limitanei/ripenses units, and perhaps even the odd locally recruited mercenary or two.

To add a bit of realism, every now and then I go to the vassal province and recruit the mercenaries available to simulate them providing Rome with troops, which was a part of most protectorate agreements Rome made, in the form of foederati. I can then use these mercenary/foederati troops in my own armies or to garrison their own forts.

Sooner or later though, they will betray you, which is the nature of the AI in the game. At this point I like to destroy them utterly and incorporate their territory into the empire. They have served their purpose, and I like to think the years/months they spent as my protectorate was in fact the very beginning of their assimilation/romanisation. By being a vassal state, they are slowly being incorporated into our military, our merchants and travellers are slowly integrating them into our empire, so that by the time they rebel they are that step closer to Rome. Destroying them and annexing their land is the next step, and then Rome rules supreme without the need for tribal puppet leaders or pretences. It's all a steady path down towards Rome.

Before you know it, all your neighbours will be your slaves, your limes constantly expanding to encompass the masses of tribes you have brought under your banner, but you must also be prepared to come to their aid when their own neighbours and by extension your futures enemies inevitably come knocking. For that is the nature of all things.

I hope that helps AirAssault.

[First Citizen Gallienus]

Thanks a million man! I was pleasantly surprised to see someone actually replied this morning, and it was none other than Knonfoda.
One thing I'm wondering however, when you install forced diplomacy does it install to your other Rome games or simply IB? I'm guessing the latter, but I see it appear in the main Rome Total War folder that's why I ask.

[Knonfoda]

It will install in whichever folder you assign it to, if you chose the RTW folder then Vanilla will have it, if you chose a mod subfolder then it will be installed into that particular mod.

As far as I know IBSAI has its own force_diplomacy under 'options' in the installation and 'options' folder.

[Julianus Flavius]

Knonfoda, would it be acceptible to, once a vassal betrays you, to crush them and make them a vassal once more instead of taking their lands?

[Constantius]

Knonfoda, would it be acceptible to, once a vassal betrays you, to crush them and make them a vassal once more instead of taking their lands?

Depends on how 'historical' you want to be- the Romans (after giving up Dacia) never extended across Danube- so it wouldn't be historical to annexe their territories, you could always give the land to a foederatus

[Knonfoda]

Yes, you can either destroy them and leave their land until it rebels. This also works because the rebel city will never attack you, so it still works as a buffer zone. They will not be able to defend themselves as well as a 'proper' faction, but the enemy will still have to go through them before they get to you. It illustrates nicely the status of a 'neutral' tribe that Rome may have had at its borders.

Then again you could just give their land to another protectorate, say a more 'loyal one', but I caution against giving too much land to protectorates as usually the more land they have the quicker they betray you. I only tend to give them one-two cities, no more for that reason.

And yes you can keep crushing them as many times as you want, but I like to eventually settle the score.

[Julianus Flavius]

I asked because my empire is a tad unstable and I really can't spare the legions needed to crush a faction utterly and deal with the public order problems after the conquest, because anything higher than Ripenses rank is busy repelling barbarians or destroying rebels.