Were the Christian Guard real?

[MeMongo]

I have been searching the net for any info/images of the Christain Guard that fight for the Moors in the game, I am unable to find anything about them.

Just curious, does anyone know if they were a real force? Would like to have a read up about them...

[Aeratus]

I believe they are accurate, but foreign mercenary guard units were relatively common throughout the world. For example, the Romans had the German Guard, and the Byzantines had the Varangian Guard, also a foreign mercenary guard unit. The Scots Guard is another example.

[ahmed5]

Perhaps they weren't as abundant as you can train them in game.

[1.21 GW]

The Spanish Arabs used many mercernaries in their armies. They used Christian from Spain, Africa, France and Italy and non-religious from Scandanavia and Africa.

[MeMongo]

Seemed strange I couldnt find any stuff about them on google, thanks for the info!

[dannyalex]

something like this is janissaries

[Fireright]

Its common knowledge that in 1230 the Almohad Caliph accepted 12,000 Christian soldiers from King Ferdinand to help crush Marrakesh rebels, in return for allowing a Christian Church to be built there.

Alright, so it aint common knowledge..knock yerselves out

Google books...Almohad Christian Soldiers

[MeMongo]

Thanks Fireright!

[ahmed5]

something like this is janissaries

Good point

[AJStoner]

In Spain, prior to the Almohad Empire arriving with an extreme right-wing vision of Islam, was a pretty tolerant place between the Christan and Muslim kingdoms. A lot of Christans lived under Muslim rulers and vice versa. They never mention it in the stories now, but El Cid served a Muslim sultan for many years after having a falling out with his first king and losing his lands.

The game, by necessity, must have formal unit types but you should remember that this was not how military units were actually organized as a rule. A lot of unit names from the game are terms used (often very locally) for people of a certain area who fought for a certain throne. For example "Ostmen" wasn't a type of warrior in Ireland but rather a name the native Irish had for those of Danish decent who had been living there for a while.

[MeMongo]

Thanks for all your answers peoples!

I really just wanted to know for sure if christians did indeed fight for the moorish sultans, now Im off to take over the world with my moorish empire... thanks again!

[TWWolfe]

In Spain, prior to the Almohad Empire arriving with an extreme right-wing vision of Islam, was a pretty tolerant place between the Christan and Muslim kingdoms. A lot of Christans lived under Muslim rulers and vice versa. They never mention it in the stories now, but El Cid served a Muslim sultan for many years after having a falling out with his first king and losing his lands.

Huzzah for Age of Empires teaching us more accurately than some textbooks!

[Bagabigna]

I also read that there were also Jews that served in the Moorish military alongside with Christians, in my opinion I think a better name for the unit would be ''Judaeo-Christian Guard''.

[PrestigeX]

I also read that there were also Jews that served in the Moorish military alongside with Christians, in my opinion I think a better name for the unit would be ''Judaeo-Christian Guard''.

That's got to be one of the funniest things I've read on here =) -- Judeo-Christian guards fighting alongside the "Abrahamic Infantry", "Rabbinical Riders" , "Sephardic Skirmishers," and the "Ashkenazi Archers".

[Kaiser Nonsense]

I highly doubt it was like "Christian Guard", soldiers of Christ fighting for the Moors, as if Crusaders. No, I think it was rather christian soldiers in the Iberia hired to fight under a Moorish banner. But they weren't there because of religion or the likes, and called Christian because well, if you are in medieval muslim territory and are christian, they will call you that.

[Aeratus]

I highly doubt it was like "Christian Guard", soldiers of Christ fighting for the Moors, as if Crusaders. No, I think it was rather christian soldiers in the Iberia hired to fight under a Moorish banner. But they weren't there because of religion or the likes, and called Christian because well, if you are in medieval muslim territory and are christian, they will call you that.

Yeah, they could have come up with a better name for the unit. Right now, "Christian Guard" is like calling turkopoles as "Muslim Horse Archers."

To answer the original question, the Moors surely did have important contingents of christian mercenaries and guards. Simply speaking, the Moors were not very militaristic at that age. Even though Cordoba was a massive city, and the Empire had a massive population compared to their neighbors, the Moors were unable to militarize their native population, similar to the case in other highly urban empires like the Byzantines and Sicilian Muslims. For the Moors, the best quality troops that were available were christian mercenaries. This is similar to how Egypt relied heavily on Turkish mercenaries and how Byzantines relied on all types of mercenaries. At times, the Moors even directly "borrowed" troops from their neighbors (but this is nothing strange, since the Byzantines borrowed Turkish troops on more than one occassion).

[Sitalkes]

Yeah, Byzantium also used Catholic troops (e.g. Frankish knights - the Latinikon) and it it surprising to read how small the army defending Byzantium was in the final years compared to the size of the city's population. The civilian population seemed quite keen to fight each other if they were beating up an opposing circus faction, but not at all interested in defending their own city, even when it was under siege.

[Aeratus]

Yeah, Byzantium also used Catholic troops (e.g. Frankish knights - the Latinikon) and it it surprising to read how small the army defending Byzantium was in the final years compared to the size of the city's population. The civilian population seemed quite keen to fight each other if they were beating up an opposing circus faction, but not at all interested in defending their own city, even when it was under siege.

According to Edward Gibbons, that was because of the "pusillanimity of the Greeks" -- and with that, the Byzantines became reviled among western historians as the weak "Greek Empire."

But anyhow, it was pretty much a clear trend that the most urban civilizations during the middle ages were weak militarily compared to feudal forces like the Christians or tribal forces like the Turks/Mongols.

[Maklodes]

I think that there were actually a fair number of soldiers on both sides of the confessional divide on both sides of the war. I think Muslims also fought for Christian Iberian states on occasion, although I think that on the whole that was less common. (Some almughavars were probably Muslim, for instance.) While bursts of religious fanaticism and persecution of Jews and the other major religion happened on both sides of Iberia (probably a bit more on the Catholic than on the Muslim side), the Spanish really only got into systematic religious cleansing after the completion of the reconquista.

You could even imagine that if a Taifa emirate (say, Carmona) decided to persecute Christians, while being at war with a rival Taifa emirate (say, Granada) that was more tolerant, many Christians might fight for Granada in the sincere view that they're defending their faith. Then, Granada wins, then finds itself at war with a Christian kingdom like Castille, they're in too deep to think of themselves as traitors to the Christian cause, and keep fighting for the same army they've been in.

Now, as for whether there were Christian guard units organized as heavy cavalry or heavy infantry, I don't know about that.

According to Edward Gibbons, that was because of the "pusillanimity of the Greeks" -- and with that, the Byzantines became reviled among western historians as the weak "Greek Empire."

But anyhow, it was pretty much a clear trend that the most urban civilizations during the middle ages were weak militarily compared to feudal forces like the Christians or tribal forces like the Turks/Mongols.

Well, I'd say it depends. If there's a general trend toward that, it would be interesting (any good sources?), but I'm not convinced you could go from "Constantinople fell" to "urban civilizations were weak" than you can go from "the Cuman-Kipchaks got conquered" to "tribal forces are weak" or "the Duchy of Burgundy collapsed" to "feudal forces are weak." Constantinople did ultimately fall, of course, but there were points throughout the middle ages when the Byzantines were the most powerful state on the Mediterranean. Genoese and Pisan crossbowmen -- who I'd say came from a pretty urban civilization, by the standards of the day, even if they often came from the Ligurian countryside rather than the city of Genoa -- were valued as mercenaries by princes with largely feudal armies. Admittedly, the Song Chinese were militarily weak. My interpretation is that they chose a weak military because they feared the military: they were more scared of An Lushan Uprising II: Electric Boogaloo than of any foreign conqueror. Still... well, I don't know.

I think the people of Constantinople were also pretty disillusioned with the Byzantine Empire anyway, since Constantine XI had declared communion with Rome to try to get support from the west.

[Kataphractos]

Huzzah for Age of Empires teaching us more accurately than some textbooks!

Beat me to it