So Muslims, Christians, Jews, ect.

[Gigan]

What would happen if you were born somewhere else in the world? Let's say you are a Christian, born in the U.S. What if you were born in Saudi Arabia, a country where the majority of the population is Muslim. You would probably be a Muslim, correct?

[Helm]

Probably much the same thing that would happen to you as well.

[Jack04]

Are you proposing we use ECT on all members of the major Abrahamic religions? That seems rather extreme...

All beliefs (not just religious) are heavily experience dependent, especially those from our childhood. Since most of us don't experience anything radical (or miraculous) in our childhood, that experience is of course largely derived from our immediate social group. I don't think anyone would genuinely dispute that.

[Gigan]

My point is that your religion is most likely determined by where you are born, and what your parent's religion is. Not by what the individual chooses. How can forced indoctrination make a religion correct?

[Helm]

My point is that your religion is most likely determined by where you are born, and what your parent's religion is.

That may apply to a good proportion the worlds population but everyone on here will have given what they believe some serious thought and made up their own mind.

[Gigan]

That may apply to a good proportion the worlds population but everyone on here will have given what they believe some serious thought and made up their own mind.

I assure you, most people belong to their current religion primarily from indoctrination, including forumers here. Think about it, if you were raised in a way where you could make your own choice of beliefs. You are told of one where an all powerful being is responsible for our existence. This all powerful being also casts all non believers into a fiery pit where they are tortured forever. This religion also contains many more beliefs which has no proof.

It would be ridiculous to believe it right?

[Ancient Aliens]

I assure you, most people belong to their current religion primarily from indoctrination, including forumers here.

Yes, religious is psychologically environmental. I'm fairly sure we all know that, including the theists on this very forum. So what was the point, exactly?

[Cooraan]

I assure you, most people belong to their current religion primarily from indoctrination, including forumers here. Think about it, if you were raised in a way where you could make your own choice of beliefs. You are told of one where an all powerful being is responsible for our existence. This all powerful being also casts all non believers into a fiery pit where they are tortured forever. This religion also contains many more beliefs which has no proof.

It would be ridiculous to believe it right?

Yes, your upbringing has a lot to do with your beliefs, but that stands for everyone. And growing up in a Christian home didn't mean I couldn't come up with my own beliefs, my beliefs differ quite a bit from my parents on certain matters of doctrine.

And you're confusing "indoctrination" with the parents beliefs. IF you as a parent want what's best for your child, and you also truly believe that if they don't believe in your faith that they will be lost for eternity. Don't you think that you would try pretty hard to save them from that? Of course forcing beliefs on someone would most likely give you a negative result, but parents who go that far would most likely just be control freaks.

[Gigan]

Yes, your upbringing has a lot to do with your beliefs, but that stands for everyone. And growing up in a Christian home didn't mean I couldn't come up with my own beliefs, my beliefs differ quite a bit from my parents on certain matters of doctrine.

And you're confusing "indoctrination" with the parents beliefs. IF you as a parent want what's best for your child, and you also truly believe that if they don't believe in your faith that they will be lost for eternity. Don't you think that you would try pretty hard to save them from that? Of course forcing beliefs on someone would most likely give you a negative result, but parents who go that far would most likely just be control freaks.

Yes but how can a particular religion be the correct one when an individual's religion is determined by their upbringing? If Christianity somehow was right, a Muslim born in Iran would go to Hell simply because they were born in the wrong place! Not so fair for he or she isn't it?

[Squiggle]

My point is that your religion is most likely determined by where you are born, and what your parent's religion is. Not by what the individual chooses. How can forced indoctrination make a religion correct?

How does it make it false?

In this situation the OP would do well to contrast religion with something like chemistry, physics, engineering etc.

There is no such thing as Russian Chemistry vs. African Chemistry. Chemistry is something that is objectively true and as such people investigating it will eventually reach the same conclusions even if they are completely isolated from eachother.

Religion does not seem to operate in the same way. People who deeply study the divine in Qom reach completely different conclusions than those in Nepal, or Rome, or Salt Lake city etc. This doesn't prove anything, but it is suggestive that the divine not objectively true at all.

That is obviously logically fallacious nonsense, and I can easily counterpoint it with: Your belief in the objectivity of Chemistry, science etc, is culturally and geographically determined. You might not agree if you were born in deep Africa...thus magically, we have grounds to doubt the objectivity you do believe in! No, thats ludicrous and blatantly so.

[PointOfViewGun]

How does it make it false? That is obviously logically fallacious nonsense, and I can easily counterpoint it with: Your belief in the objectivity of Chemistry, science etc, is culturally and geographically determined. You might not agree if you were born in deep Africa...thus magically, we have grounds to doubt the objectivity you do believe in! No, thats ludicrous and blatantly so.

Are you seriously denying that you're a Christian mostly because your family is a Christian?

[Helm]

Are you seriously denying that you're a Christian mostly because your family is a Christian?

He could stop being a Christian if he wanted, freewill and all that.

[Squiggle]

Are you seriously denying that you're a Christian mostly because your family is a Christian?

My family isnt Christian, no one in my family is.

[PointOfViewGun]

My family isnt Christian, no one in my family is.

You live in a Christian country. What is your family if not Christian? Muslim? Atheist?

[Gigan]

Think about it, if you were raised in a way where you could make your own choice of beliefs. You are told of one where an all powerful being is responsible for our existence. This all powerful being also casts all non believers into a fiery pit where they are tortured forever. This religion also claims many more things, of which has no proof.

It would be ridiculous to believe it right?

[Sphere]

In this situation the OP would do well to contrast religion with something like chemistry, physics, engineering etc.

There is no such thing as Russian Chemistry vs. African Chemistry. Chemistry is something that is objectively true and as such people investigating it will eventually reach the same conclusions even if they are completely isolated from eachother.

Religion does not seem to operate in the same way. People who deeply study the divine in Qom reach completely different conclusions than those in Nepal, or Rome, or Salt Lake city etc. This doesn't prove anything, but it is suggestive that the divine not objectively true at all.

[xcorps]

A persons individual faith is not the same thing as religion. Upbringing has a role in your religion, but not your faith. Your faith (or lack of) is your own.

Christianity is not about religion. Christianity is about faith. Nowhere...nowhere..does Jesus say you have to be Protestant, Catholic, or Jewish to go to Heaven.

[Cooraan]

A persons individual faith is not the same thing as religion. Upbringing has a role in your religion, but not your faith. Your faith (or lack of) is your own.

Christianity is not about religion. Christianity is about faith. Nowhere...nowhere..does Jesus say you have to be Protestant, Catholic, or Jewish to go to Heaven.

Pretty much this. I doubt very much God cares about your particular religion.

[Sphere]

That is obviously logically fallacious nonsense, and I can easily counterpoint it with: Your belief in the objectivity of Chemistry, science etc, is culturally and geographically determined. You might not agree if you were born in deep Africa...thus magically, we have grounds to doubt the objectivity you do believe in! No, thats ludicrous and blatantly so.

That's not a very persausive rebuttal.

If you mix sulfur, charcoal and potassium nitrate, you will get black powder regardless of your cultural background or your value system. This recipe spread across the world because the physical principles behind it are universal, and independent of culture, and so can be duplicated anywhere.

Religion is something very different from this. The "recipes" proposed by religions have never caught on in the same way, (e.g. animal sacrifice, circumcision, baptism etc.) even though most religons claim there are universal truths behind them. If the divine is a real thing, the divergent mess that is religion is very hard to explain.

If on the other hand the divine is simply human invention, it makes perfect sense that each culture has created it's own religion.

That is my point.

[Squiggle]

You live in a Christian country. What is your family if not Christian? Muslim? Atheist?

I live in Canada, that is an extremely secular or liberally Christian country, religion isnt important here. So atheist by default, basically.

That's not a very persausive rebuttal.

If you mix sulfur, charcoal and potassium nitrate, you will get black powder regardless of your cultural background or your value system. This recipe spread across the world because the physical principles behind it are universal, and independent of culture, and so can be duplicated anywhere.

Religion is something very different from this. The "recipes" proposed by religions have never caught on in the same way, (e.g. animal sacrifice, circumcision, baptism etc.) even though most religons claim there are universal truths behind them.

Yeah, again, no. Difference in the truth of a matter does not make the proposed explanations any less likely. Difference in economic theory does not mean economic truth is intangible, or all proposed economic theories are wrong, different quantum mechanical explanations do not give reason to doubt there is truth to quantum mechanics, differing historical hypothesis does not logically result in doubting there is truth in history. It does not follow logically, simple.

If the divine is a real thing, the divergent mess that is religion is very hard to explain. If on the other hand the divine is simply human invention, it makes perfect sense that each culture has created it's own religion.

Its pathetically easy to explain differing beliefs even with a divine truth- it would literally fall under the exact same explanation you would give for their beliefs in the first place. Poor mythologized superstition to explain things they dont know. There is no reason to logically assume given the truth of Christianity that other beliefs should not arise, and there is no point made in the bible that all other beliefs would be washed away with the overwhelming truth of the Gospel.

That is my point.

I obviously understood your point, its just something that doesnt logically follow or have any theological importance on a single religion known to mankind, ever. It is an extremely poorly thought out point.