Changing Serbian Flag

[phoenix[illusion]]

Spyros posted site with naval maps from 14th till 15th century. i was always interested in serbian flag in medieval ages, so i searched if there is any flag except Dulcert's from which we know that it was red eagle on yellow. I found maps which date from 1439, 1440, 1456, 1466 in which we can also see the same flag. in 15th century serbian empire didn't exist anymore, it was the despotate. and in 1466 there was no serbia anymore. so what is that flag about? as we can see on those 4 maps, it points to durazzo (serbian drač), city in albania which was important trade colony of many kingdoms and republics. so i think that this flag is in fact durazzo flag, not the serbian. check it for your self

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

so i want to ask you, what should we do with serbia flag and coa? i posted poll
if you answer yes, then serbia will have nemanjic coa and oldest know red and blue flag

nemanjic coa

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

flag of serbia

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

if you answer no, than serbian coa and flag stays the same, red eagle on yellow background.

[JankoMega]

Spyros posted site with naval maps from 14th till 15th century. i was always interested in serbian flag in medieval ages, so i searched if there is any flag except Dulcert's from which we know that it was red eagle on yellow. I found maps which date from 1439, 1440, 1456, 1466 in which we can also see the same flag. in 15th century serbian empire didn't exist anymore, it was the despotate. and in 1466 there was no serbia anymore. so what is that flag about? as we can see on those 4 maps, it points to durazzo (serbian drač), city in albania which was important trade colony of many kingdoms and republics. so i think that this flag is in fact durazzo flag, not the serbian. check it for your self

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

so i want to ask you, what should we do with serbia flag and coa? i posted poll
if you answer yes, then serbia will have nemanjic coa and oldest know red and blue flag

nemanjic coa

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

flag of serbia

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

if you answer no, than serbian coa and flag stays the same, red eagle on yellow background.

I personally suggest for the white eagle on red backround.And using this Serbian flag.But also,if possible,using the flag with red eagle on yellow backround,as you said just for Durazzo(Drač).
But lets see what others say...

[phoenix[illusion]]

we are now using yellow flag with red eagle. if you wanna change (like i do) vote yes for change

[JankoMega]

we are now using yellow flag with red eagle. if you wanna change (like i do) vote yes for change

Ah.Sorry,i'm so stupid!
Voted for yes...to change.
I know of course that Tsar Stefan Urosh IV Dushan The Mighty was Nemanjić;king of Serbia from 1331-1345,and after that he proclaimed himself to Tsar(Emperor)in 1346 in Skopja...he was an emperor to 1355 when he died,just when he wanted to make a crusade against Turks.He was a son of Stefan Urosh III Dečanski and Teodora Smilecz.
So he was Nemanjić,and Nemanić CoA and Serbian flag must be used!Not that one which was on Drač...
...i gave you my vote.

Cheers!

EDIT:I surely know that Dushan was my favourite ruler of all times.

[2Shy]

No- its not historically accurate.Use eather the nemagic flag or the old serbian flag (or let it stay the same).

[JankoMega]

No- its not historically accurate.Use eather the nemagic flag or the old serbian flag (or let it stay the same).

This is the exact Serbian CoA flag by the time of Dushan if you want to know: http://www.google.com/imgres?q=srpsk...:429,r:13,s:21
And look in books or something...CoA and flag that phoenix posted ARE historically accurate.Ask Spyros too,or someone else.I also know history of Serbia great.Ask me something if you want from medieval times in Serbia,and i will tell you.
On topic,as i mentioned,YES.Change it.Btw sorry for messing up in your post,but flag and Nemanjić CoA are historically accurate,Dushan was Nemanjić for God sake,and he used them!
P.S:The CoA i posted is not well,phoenix's is and fully accurate...look at his post above...
Btw read whole post of him!
Cheers.

[phoenix[illusion]]

No- its not historically accurate.Use eather the nemagic flag or the old serbian flag (or let it stay the same).

please read my first post. it seems that yellow flag is the most historically inaccurate. it seem sthat it's durazzo flag, by other maps. on dulcert's map there was scopi (skopje) and by that historians thought it was dusan's, but flag was never on scopi, but durazzo. other towns on seaside also have their own flag.
serbian historians thought that yellow flag was serbian, but by other map it shows that it's not. there is also black flag on bulgaria, and it was not bulgarian flag.
old serbian flag dates from 13th century. it's the most historical flag. as for coa of nemanjic, that's other story.

[SpyrosM91]

phoenix, what's that quartered blue and white flag?? is it of bosnia or sth???

there is also black flag on bulgaria, and it was not bulgarian flag.

can you post it?? i wanna see...

[phoenix[illusion]]

phoenix, what's that quartered blue and white flag?? is it of bosnia or sth???
can you post it?? i wanna see...

it's not bosnia, although color of bosnia was blue with white and lilies
as these are naval flags i think those flags are from colonies states. free states in service on some republic. something like ragusa or kotor or other adriatic cities, which were free in one way. check out other cities, they also have own flags which belong to none of the republic

http://bp2.blogger.com/_Hsy15Eq9SAg/...rani%29+01.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Hsy15Eq9SA...all1440jpg.jpg
http://bp1.blogger.com/_Hsy15Eq9SAg/...ere-Rosell.jpg
http://bp0.blogger.com/_Hsy15Eq9SAg/...oselli1466.jpg

this is the huge resolution of first map
http://cch.cat/php/ls.php?fx=1vmmp03300

and the part we're interested in
http://cch.cat/img/secc_m/gran/1439%...ni%29%2004.jpg

[SpyrosM91]

this is the huge resolution of first map
http://cch.cat/php/ls.php?fx=1vmmp03300

and the part we're interested in
http://cch.cat/img/secc_m/gran/1439%...ni%29%2004.jpg

phoenix, that's actually the flag of the Golden Horde.... if you look more to the north east you will see the same flags..... and this isn't blue... AS STRANGE IT MAY SEEM.... the colour is white (yes... white....).... the painter used some kind of silver based colour.... and either the flash of the camera or the time has changed the colour... you will see that in Constantinople, the second smaller flag is the one of the Genoese Galata...


e.g. look at the original catalan atlas.... the genoese flags in Galata and Crimea:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

and the map preservation-reconstruction:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I agree, so I also voted for "Yes, change it".
Btw, a bit off-topic, but speaking of flags, how about making a battle flag, which was used a bit later by the Bulgarian voynuks and is probably the earliest BG tricolour - a white hand in a green circle on a red rectangular field (I had made a basic version of it for BGTW 2.0, but can't seem to find it)?

do you mean for the strat map??? because we can use the "change banners" option, without new faction....

[matija191]

phoenix, what's that quartered blue and white flag?? is it of bosnia or sth???




can you post it?? i wanna see...

That white-blue is the flag of Metković or Šibenik (I cant be certain)...years before I found that picture, among others, and they represented the CoAs of Croatian cities...

EDIT:

Here it is - the white-blue one represent city Metković, red-yellow one with star represent Senj, while a yellow one with white circle and red cross represents Šibenik:

http://www.forum.hr/showthread.php?t=557056

[Bagatyr]

there is also black flag on bulgaria, and it was not bulgarian flag

hmm when i see it closer it looks much like Terter coa but i will chek it again later .


As for serbia i think the flag shoud remain the same but can be added to red-blue flags in battle maps ...
But i think that this is serbia and serbians should have the last word ...

[DobroVece]

I kinda got used to the yellow flag, however I must say change it. Nemanjic eagle, in this form or the other, have been associated with Serbia up until today. So nothing ever says Serbia more than it.

[NikeBG]

I agree, so I also voted for "Yes, change it".
Btw, a bit off-topic, but speaking of flags, how about making a battle flag, which was used a bit later by the Bulgarian voynuks and is probably the earliest BG tricolour - a white hand in a green circle on a red rectangular field (I had made a basic version of it for BGTW 2.0, but can't seem to find it)?

[RO Citizen]

That Nemajnic CoA is plain too awesome to not be included!

[Ampra]

One of Serbian flags old by form is flag of traditional st.sava lavarum in Boka Kotorska around 1219 :



Then we have flag of zupan Desa ( son of Serbian king Stefan Vladimir I ) around 1282 which use first colors of modern Serbian flag :



If you want i can explain meaning of this flag !

But know I am coming to yellow flag with red eagle on which I have to insist because of historic accuracy !

In time when our mod start we used with pride yellow flag and I have several sources to prove my point !
First time when we heard about yellow flag is in battle of Velbuzd . When one group of knight under command of vlastelin Nikola Buca used that flag when they took flag of Bulgarian emperor ! After that yellow flag was used as special relic .

But important thing is to say about Dusan used of yellow flag :
1. In map of Anhelin Dulsret from 1339 we have yellow flag over capital city Skoplje
2. Also we have 2 flags in Hilandar both with yellow and red but also with cross on them !!!

But to be honest in later stages of Serbian medieval world we have variation of yellow - red and red white flags .

First of all Krstas-barjak of Stefan Tvrtko I Kotromanic its red - white - yellow
Then flag with two head eagle from despot Angeline Brankovic from 1492.
And finally flag of Stefan Crnojevic from 1464/65 .

About COA :

Nemanjic COA can be only red and white double head eagle .
Many Serbian lords and rulers used it after Nemanjic dynasty so they can show resemblance with them !
For example coa of Stefan Lazarevic :

[Bagatyr]

First time when we heard about yellow flag is in battle of Velbuzd . When one group of knight under command of vlastelin Nikola Buca used that flag when they took flag of Bulgarian emperor !

can you tell me is there a description of bulgarian emperial flag ?

[Ampra]

can you tell me is there a description of bulgarian emperial flag ?

In this particular text there is not But I can look for you in some other books that I have !

[Bagatyr]

But I can look for you in some other books that I have !

yeas pleas if you find something inform me ...

[Ampra]

One of possible solution for Serbian flags :



So there are colors of red and blue like Ragusa letters are talking about plus there is yellow ( color of Stefan Decanski and Dusan ) with Nemanjic COA in middle !

What do you think guys ?