New Angmar faction

[DrOz]

I'v been snooping around this forum for a while, but not really posting, and I play the Third Age mod alot, I find it a fantastic mod! I also play Battle for middle earth 2 aswell, and I think it'd be rather awesome if their was a Angmar faction,(In the style of the Angmar faction in Battle for middle earth 2, with generals like The Witchking, Morgomir, Karsh, Hwalder and the troll with the sword who's name I can't remember) too replace the Orcs of Gundabad, I know it's not canon, but I reckon it'd still be really cool, yet I have no modding skills what so ever, basicly the most I can do is install mods, so i was just putting that idea out there!

[Emperor of Hell]

they wouldnt add that because Angmar was destroyed 1000 year before the start of the campaign and the witch-king went to mordor.
EDIT: maybe you should post this on the suggestions thread

[Trailhog250]

Arnor was destroyed too. I've had this idea for a long time the OoGB should be able to convert to Angmar similar to the way Eriador converts to Arnor

[Ngugi]

The reasons to why Arnor is allowed while Angmar is left is a few;
- Angmar was built around the Witch-king: when he was gone Angmar was.
- To remove him from Mordor would be plain wrong. But Anmgar without a Witch-king is not very epic?
- What difference, beisde the name, should be done to a reunited Angmar? Gundabad already have units based upon (original) Angmar and we don't have any good info to give them something else a 1000 year after as with Arnor were quite more info is available.
- Arnor was built around the Dúnedain of the North who did survived in the region; Aragorn did "resurrected" Arnor in a way during Third Age through the United Kingdom

[Jackie Treehorn]

- Angmar was built around the Witch-king: when he was gone Angmar was.
- To remove him from Mordor would be plain wrong.

Why?

- What difference, beisde the name, should be done to a reunited Angmar?

True. But, Angmar sounds better and should have the witch king as ruler. Mordor can have the rest of the Nazguls. While two of them are located in Dol Guldur, the Witch King could be Saurons vassal in Angmar.

Gundabad already have units based upon (original) it and we don't have any good info to give them something else a 1000 year after as with Arnor were quite more info is available.

True. But, to have less info, doesn't mean that somebody with good mod skills and imagination can't design some more nice units for OoG/Angmar.
Don't get me wrong, the Units which King Kong created for OoG are great, but still OoG could need more tender love and care.
I got the impression, that the rooster of OoG get's quite quick dull, since there is no big variation in it.
Some more units and a story line or events, which could make OoG to Angmar would be fine.

I have the following scenario in mind. Remember Isengard transformed very quickly to an mighty power when Sauron needed a counterweight against Rohan.
The same could happen with OoG. After Arnor is reunited, OoG should transform in the same event to Angmar. Sauron sends his best General to Gundabad to establish Angmar, as an counterpart to Arnor.

Also, we do not know much about Rhun either, but DG created some very nice units for them.
We would not even need to invent new units. There is a second age mod, not released but with nice units for Angmar. Those could be used as addition to the OoG Units for New Angmar.

[Dunedain Ranger]

True. But, Angmar sounds better and should have the witch king as ruler. Mordor can have the rest of the Nazguls. While two of them are located in Dol Guldur, the Witch King could be Saurons vassal in Angmar.

True. But, to have less info, doesn't mean that somebody with good mod skills and imagination can't design some more nice units for OoG/Angmar.
Don't get me wrong, the Units which King Kong created for OoG are great, but still OoG could need more tender love and care.
I got the impression, that the rooster of OoG get's quite quick dull, since there is no big variation in it.
Some more units and a story line or events, which could make OoG to Angmar would be fine.

I have the following scenario in mind. Remember Isengard transformed very quickly to an mighty power when Sauron needed a counterweight against Rohan.
The same could happen with OoG. After Arnor is reunited, OoG should transform in the same event to Angmar. Sauron sends his best General to Gundabad to establish Angmar, as an counterpart to Arnor.

Also, we do not know much about Rhun either, but DG created some very nice units for them.
We would not even need to invent new units. There is a second age mod, not released but with nice units for Angmar. Those could be used as addition to the OoG Units for New Angmar.

This sounds legendary. In fact, i had same thoughts. But when you are playing orks of gundabad you should be able to decide if you want to change to angmar. Like in Eriador.

If you are playing with the gundabad orks there could appear a welcome message where you can decide if the witch king joins your faction or not.

There should be also some conditions like:

Orks of Gundabad must be ally with Mordor
Arnor must has arisen.
The witchking must be alive.

Im no modder so im not be able to do it but its sounds really legendary.

[smoesville]

Orks of Gundabad must be ally with Mordor
Arnor must has arisen.
The witchking must be alive. DEAD?

Im no modder so im not be able to do it but its sounds really legendary.

Wouldn't that suit better? Since he wouldn't truly be dead as such

[Dunedain Ranger]

Wouldn't that suit better? Since he wouldn't truly be dead as such

Yeah true. So how we change the condition? Maybe he mustnt have died by a woman till then^^
When the mighty Sauron would know.

There should be also some conditions like:

Orks of Gundabad must be ally with Mordor
Arnor must has arisen.
The witchking must be alive.

Im no modder so im not be able to do it but its sounds really legendary.

It could be scripted if you want the witchking join your faction or not (like the Aragorn joins Gondor script). Together with the conditions i mentioned it would make sense since Mordor could loose the witchking too early otherwise.

[Ngugi]

Why?

WK was the commander of Mordor and thus was in Mordor during the period of TA when we play. He was a main concern for Gondor as the nazgûls and Mordors forces never was as dangerous as when he was participating.

True. But, Angmar sounds better and should have the witch king as ruler. Mordor can have the rest of the Nazguls. While two of them are located in Dol Guldur, the Witch King could be Saurons vassal in Angmar.

It should rather be the opposit that any nazul but the WK could be taken away from Mordor, to keep some lore intact but still give a nazgûl to a new Angmar.

True. But, to have less info, doesn't mean that somebody with good mod skills and imagination can't design some more nice units for OoG/Angmar.
Don't get me wrong, the Units which King Kong created for OoG are great, but still OoG could need more tender love and care.
I got the impression, that the rooster of OoG get's quite quick dull, since there is no big variation in it.
Some more units and a story line or events, which could make OoG to Angmar would be fine.

Agree, OoG should get a greater make over! But Angmar is far fetched.
I think (only my opinion ofc) that more work and creativity should be put into, the credible, OoG rather than add another faction with on top (as, more or less, it would be) because any troops of a reforged Angmar could be given OoG directly. OoG has more of soldier-lore than Angmar.

(...)
The same could happen with OoG. After Arnor is reunited, OoG should transform in the same event to Angmar. Sauron sends his best General to Gundabad to establish Angmar, as an counterpart to Arnor.

Arnor was created to bring Arnor down - it succeded and then was of no further interest to the Dark Lord. A possible scenario indeed, the only one to give the idea real credit would be that the return of Arnor would be required for Angmar to return.

[DrOz]

Really good idea's guys! also what could be cool, is if you got a unique hero general for a certain settlement held for example; Ettenmoors (Rhogash- the troll hero) and the barrow-downs (Karsh) Carn-dum (Morgomir, or would that not be fair for Mordor taking away another Nazgul). also would the roster just be Black Numoreon's as elites, and orcs, wolves and traitor soldiers from rhudaur (if you own the area) and also snow and hill trolls as shock troops?

[Dunedain Ranger]

Really good idea's guys! also what could be cool, is if you got a unique hero general for a certain settlement held for example; Ettenmoors (Rhogash- the troll hero) and the barrow-downs (Karsh) Carn-dum (Morgomir, or would that not be fair for Mordor taking away another Nazgul). also would the roster just be Black Numoreon's as elites, and orcs, wolves and traitor soldiers from rhudaur (if you own the area) and also snow and hill trolls as shock troops?

Good ideas for the unique heroes. But im not sure from where do you have got taken your nazgul name.
As far as i know tolkien only gave us two names of the Nazgûl : Khamûl and the witchking of Angmar.

Gundabad could be very dangerous with these changes.

I have another idea. Since the orks of the misty mountains have the possibility to get a balrog, the gundabad orks (or Angmar) could get a mighty dragon. But it might be lore questionable. Thats why Im not sure about that.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

I believe it's hard-coded to where only one faction can convert to another.

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain it's true.

[Dunedain Ranger]

I believe it's hard-coded to where only one faction can convert to another.

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain it's true.

If this is the case then there could be a script one turn after arnor emerged which gives the orks of gundabad new buildings and unlocks some units. There could appear a message like: Angmar has new technology to fight Arnor or something like that.

[Celticslap]

The biggest issue I see with this, is it completely unbalances the north. FRoME added Dunland and Rohan just gets owned every single campaign unless you control them. If you play any good faction in that area (Arnor, High Elves, Dwarves) The OoTMM are more than enough to keep you occupied through mid-campaign until you need to march south to Mordor. I'd hate to see what would happen to those factions if they had two legitimate fronts open at the same time in that part of the map. My guess is if Arnor makes it through mid-campaign (probably with 2 settlements) they get obliterated right after the final tech upgrade, the Dwarves get hemmed-in early on and never bounce back and the High Elves get overrun by OoTMM sometime early campaign because they can only expand west and meet up with Gundabad who now has a tech tree on steroids. Don't get me wrong it's your prerogative to make any mod you want to, but it my opinion the joy you would get from making the mod would be checked very quickly after you realize you've unbalanced the gameplay.

Side-note: Dude, Rise of the Witch-King was not that great, certainly not worth the $25 dollars I paid for it when it was released.

[Jackie Treehorn]

The biggest issue I see with this, is it completely unbalances the north. FRoME added Dunland and Rohan just gets owned every single campaign unless you control them.

I would also say that the North is unbalanced, but it is unbalanced right now imho. Gundabad gets almost always owned by the Dwarvs. They are sandwiched between Ered Luin and Erebor. At least in FROME.
So, Gundabad should get some improvement in order to survive longer against the advancing Dwarven Hordes. Rohan is very seldom facing the OoG, since Rohan has to deal with Dunland, Isengard and Mordor, but only during crusades with OoG.
Though with Il Ducces Extended Settlement Mod, Rohan is surviving much longer.

So, now I found what I was looking for. That Mod was planned by Beorn. It has already a very nice Roster for Rhudaur. So, if not all of them could be AOR Units for Angmar.
Also, Arnor could get some AOR Units from the Cardolan or Arthedain Roster. Maybe Militia first and second tier units. I do not say, give Angmar or Arnor alot of Super Units, but for sake of variation, give them more AOR low or middle class units. In that case one would build up military buildings in specific AOR settlements in order to be able to recruit this units.
Same as it was done with Gondor, by Taro M's Unit Mod. Well, of course Beorn should agree to use his units for an Arnor Mod. Unfortunatelly I have just a few ideas, but no Modding skills.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=353006

[AragornElessar]

I would also say that the North is unbalanced, but it is unbalanced right now imho. Gundabad gets almost always owned by the Dwarvs. They are sandwiched between Ered Luin and Erebor. At least in FROME.
So, Gundabad should get some improvement in order to survive longer against the advancing Dwarven Hordes. Rohan is very seldom facing the OoG, since Rohan has to deal with Dunland, Isengard and Mordor, but only during crusades with OoG.
Though with Il Ducces Extended Settlement Mod, Rohan is surviving much longer.

So, now I found what I was looking for. That Mod was planned by Beorn. It has already a very nice Roster for Rhudaur. So, if not all of them could be AOR Units for Angmar.
Also, Arnor could get some AOR Units from the Cardolan or Arthedain Roster. Maybe Militia first and second tier units. I do not say, give Angmar or Arnor alot of Super Units, but for sake of variation, give them more AOR low or middle class units. In that case one would build up military buildings in specific AOR settlements in order to be able to recruit this units.
Same as it was done with Gondor, by Taro M's Unit Mod. Well, of course Beorn should agree to use his units for an Arnor Mod. Unfortunatelly I have just a few ideas, but no Modding skills.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=353006

This and please remember NO BLACK NUMENORIANS

[Dunedain Ranger]

I share your unbalanced fears but there is no way that it must be this way. It could be balanced when the units are no uber units and when there are only few recruitable.

Its too early to speak about the balancing. We just share some ideas.

[DrOz]

To Celticslap; each to their own I rather liked it but ahwell.
About the unbalanced issue, tis a point, but maybe, when you emerge as Angmar, all your settlements turn rogue in the area in which OoG started apart from Carn Dum (Witchkings former stronghold) which could represent a new leader in charge who needs too retake and reorder his lands thus not being that unbalanced as you have too build up again, but with a brand new dark numereon army too start you off retaking, as you take certain settlements, you get my pre-mentioned unique hero generals?

Or does nobody like the idea of building up again in their core region, just thought it might be different and add some more challenge. Also Morgomir is a made up name for one of Nazgul, who was the lieutenant, at least in Rise of the Witch-King, but considering only two are named officially, it doesn't really matter.

[smoesville]

Also Morgomir is a made up name for one of Nazgul, who was the lieutenant, at least in Rise of the Witch-King, but considering only two are named officially, it doesn't really matter.

All of the Nazgul are named in this mod using a mix of fan sources If you go to data/text/names.txt you should be able to find them under england i think.

[Trailhog250]

Rohan just gets owned every single campaign unless you control them

Not in MOS 6.0 I'm changing the invasion list and testing it right now to make sure there are no bugs as there was some speculation regarding certain settlements should not be changed. But it's turn 50 or so and Rohan is doing rather good since Erebor got crusaded first. (and won I might add) But that's subject to change

Back to the main topic though, I would imagine Black Numenoreans as a recruitable unit but there would be so few that it could seem out of place... (as in numerous varying Black Numenorean units)

But I could see their roster having that, doing away with mountain/cave trolls, using wildmen and giving some of them training/armor/weapons to be maybe a 'Rhudar Recruit' or something similar to that. (Sword,shield,medium-quality chain-mail armor)

As stated by another member it may not be possible. I thought DaC was doing this actually? 'Remnants of Angmar'?
But it's more realistic Eriador going to Arnor then OoGB going to Angmar if you had to choose. (There is nothing wrong with the OoGB right now anyway)