Is the Bible admitting other people than eden?

[Pallida Mors]

"Adam [a] lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. [b] She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth [c] a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."

8 Now Cain said to his brother Abel, "Let's go out to the field." [d] And while they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.

9 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is your brother Abel?"
"I don't know," he replied. "Am I my brother's keeper?"

10 The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth."

13 Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."


15 But the LORD said to him, "Not so [e] ; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the LORD's presence and lived in the land of Nod, [f] east of Eden.

17 Cain lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.

19 Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah. 20 Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock. 21 His brother's name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play the harp and flute. 22 Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of [g] bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain's sister was Naamah. "

Creationist's project that Adam lived until 930 years old. If from creation, Adam had and Eve had a child every 9 months until they died would mean that the max amount of offspring that they could produce would be 1240. Using the bible, which goes on from these verses to state whom had what child with whom from Adams offspring doesnt give an explination of the land that Cain was cast into, and the command not to Kill him. Not to mention the woman that Cain married. It doesnt say his sister whom he married. Nor is there any mention prior to this of offspring being born or reproduciton of girls after Cain and Abel but before Abel's death. The logical conclusion is that there were other people. There you have it, a biblical explination to evolution. More like a sidenote.


Those would be possible numbers, not taking into account the recovery time associated with child birth. It was just to show the Unlikelihood of them starting the world pop. Not to mention, the various races. Scientists state that it took 20,000 to 30,000 years for the human gene to accommodate the cold living conditions of europe and dark skinned peoples changed. Adam and Eve doesnt explain caucasians, blacks, and asians very well.

[DarkKnight]

"If from creation, Adam had and Eve had a child every 9 months until they died would mean that the max amount of offspring that they could produce would be 1240."
Not to mention that it wouldn't be long before Eve hit menopause

And did they have to repent everytime they boned their sister? Or was it considered ok to have incest in order to populate the earth?

[AngryTitusPullo]

"If from creation, Adam had and Eve had a child every 9 months until they died would mean that the max amount of offspring that they could produce would be 1240."
Not to mention that it wouldn't be long before Eve hit menopause

And did they have to repent everytime they boned their sister? Or was it considered ok to have incest in order to populate the earth?

Islamic tradition believes that Cain was born with a twin , a girl an so then Abel. God said that Cain cannot married his twin sister but to marry Abels twin sister. He refuses as his sister were prettier than Abel's sister.

So, due to 'lack' of other intelligent being at that time, incest only accountable if Cain married hiw own twin sister.

As to the menoouse thing, obviously we cannot compare modern time medical condition with those long long time ago.

[Pallida Mors]

Islamic tradition believes that Cain was born with a twin , a girl an so then Abel. God said that Cain cannot married his twin sister but to marry Abels twin sister. He refuses as his sister were prettier than Abel's sister.

So, due to 'lack' of other intelligent being at that time, incest only accountable if Cain married hiw own twin sister.

As to the menoouse thing, obviously we cannot compare modern time medical condition with those long long time ago.

But doesnt that mean that once again God is breaking His own rules (moral or physical) for this to happen and not be immoral? And if thats the case did early man get a free pass on the consequences for incest from God? Another rule broken.

[IamthePope]

Thats why creationism is silly Protestant idea. The church has always taught that the creation story is a divine parable. St. Augustine was teaching that the Book of Genesis should not be taken seriously as early as the 4th century. Dont bother trying to understand it, there's all sorts of crazy stuff in the Book of Genesis like giants and dragons and six winged angels.

[Pallida Mors]

No to mention nephilim, the offspring of angels and men.

[IamthePope]

No to mention nephilim, the offspring of angels and men.

They made a really bad sci-fi movie about this... The awful-ness of those sci-fi movies boggles the mind

[Kanaric]

No to mention nephilim, the offspring of angels and men.

Is that in the bible or just made up church mythology?

[Turbo]

The bible tells us that God's days are not our days (2 Peter 3:8 "with the Lord, a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day" and Psalm 90:4 "A thousand years are to You like a yesterday which has passed"). The full context of these two verses is the great sweep of time from creation until the judgment day. The account of Cain's wife in Genesis 4:17 cannot be strictly sequential and literal.

Hebrews 11:3 reads as follows: "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." The Greek word used here for "worlds" is "Aiõn", which is our English word "eon." I own the Complete Word Study by Spiros Zodhiates and it says "Aiõn; age, refers to an age or time, in contrast to kósmos (2889), referring to people or space." "Aiõnes, ages, in Hebrews 11:3 refers to the great occurrences which took place in the universe." (Zodhiates, page 1684) With this in mind, a better translation of Hebrews 11:3 might be: "Through faith we understand that the ages were framed by the word of God". The word "made" here in Greek is "Gínomai", and this word means "to be made or created from nothing (John 1:3, 10; Heb 11:3)" (Zodhiates, page 1700). Hebrews 11:3 refers to the great acts of creation described in Genesis 1-2, not to the human ages described in Genesis 4.

So in some case a day can mean an age. For example - the order of days/ages does not match up with evolutionary theory. The most common criticism is that days 3 and 4 are in the wrong order. The Biblical order matches up well enough for me. One idea that has been speculated for the sun and moon appearing late in the sequence is that the early atmosphere was very cloudy, much like the planet Venus is today.

[DarkKnight]

The bible tells us that God's days are not our days (2 Peter 3:8 "with the Lord, a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day" and Psalm 90:4 "A thousand years are to You like a yesterday which has passed").

930 years is already a ridiculous life span for a human, but if one day in Genesis is 1000 years then Adam lived to be 339,450,000 years old.

[quote]So in some case a day can mean an age. For example - the order of days/ages does not match up with evolutionary theory. The most common criticism is that days 3 and 4 are in the wrong order. The Biblical order matches up well enough for me. One idea that has been speculated for the sun and moon appearing late in the sequence is that the early atmosphere was very cloudy, much like the planet Venus is today.[quote]
How do explain that the clear contradiction in the order of creation for chapters 1 and 2?

[Zenobia]

[QUOTE=DarkKnight]930 years is already a ridiculous life span for a human, but if one day in Genesis is 1000 years then Adam lived to be 339,450,000 years old.

[quote]So in some case a day can mean an age. For example - the order of days/ages does not match up with evolutionary theory. The most common criticism is that days 3 and 4 are in the wrong order. The Biblical order matches up well enough for me. One idea that has been speculated for the sun and moon appearing late in the sequence is that the early atmosphere was very cloudy, much like the planet Venus is today.

How do explain that the clear contradiction in the order of creation for chapters 1 and 2?

I think what Turbo is trying to say is that time in the bible has many different meanings. A day has multiple meanings in the bible.

[Pallida Mors]

"Not to mention that it wouldn't be long before Eve hit menopause

And did they have to repent everytime they boned their sister? Or was it considered ok to have incest in order to populate the earth?"

I just remembered hearing arguments about this from literal bible christians (hear by known as LBC), but it constantly involves God breaking the very laws (Physical & Moral) He created to do it. The LBC tell me that for God to do it would literally take gene pool exceptions or maybe the genes of Adam and Eve were so pure, genetic defect wouldn't occur. I have yet to meet any super beings, or proof of their super DNA that would prevent problems from inbreeding, their offspring that is. The rest is speculation.

[Chiron202]

iamthepope is right on this one, the point of the story is to illustrate god's power using metaphor and architypal imagery, and the fact that god is rtesponsible for the entire world as we know it. There is no point, doctrinally or otherwise, in saying creation actually happened exactly like that, or saying that women are resonsible for the fall and are weak-minded and easily decieved, and are therefor unqualified for office (church offices, etc) as some more fundamentalist protestant congregations are prone to do.

[Pallida Mors]

Agree with most of what you said. Some churches are more progressive than others with regard to different things. You mentioned protestant churches and women in pastoral positions. I've been to several that have had women as pastors, and I support them. Where the Catholic chuch wont allow it, but then they've adopted evolution as a scientific explination of our beginnings. Just more of the same, always disagreeing among themselves over little things. And when people are sick of being told what to believe they'll go out and research it for themselves.

[Pallida Mors]

Hope this helps. Our favorite Wikipedia also has additional details.


Genesis 6:4 NIV • The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.



Numbers 13:33 NIV •
We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."