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  1. #1
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Be careful what you say or I'll sue you!

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...097470,00.html

    Chat room insults lead to internet libel victory
    By Adam Sherwin, Media Correspondent



    A WOMAN who posted false sexual allegations against a UKIP parliamentary candidate on the internet has become the first person in a British chat room to be successfully sued for libel.
    Tracy Williams was ordered yesterday to pay £10,000 damages to Michael Keith Smith and issued with a High Court restraining order banning her from abusing him further on any website.



    Mr Keith Smith, 53, who fought the Portsmouth North seat last year, was falsely accused of being a sex offender and “racist bigot” in an internet chatroom. He sued Williams, claiming that she had used an alias to make serious and false accusations against him on a group discussion website in April 2004.

    In a potentially significant ruling for public figures fighting libellous websites, Judge Alistair MacDuff, QC, said: “The published statements, upon which reliance is placed, are clearly seriously defamatory. These statements have been made to a restricted audience and it is likely that few people have read these statements. But they were available to the whole world, or at least to the part of the world that has access to a computer and knows how to go on the internet.”

    Mr Keith Smith, a chartered surveyor and former Conservative Party member from Fareham, Hampshire, said that Williams had attacked him in the chatroom for right-wing political discussion after they had disagreed in a group debate about the Iraq war.

    The abuse started after Mr Keith Smith signed up in 2003 to a discussion site that had 100 or so members and which was hosted by Yahoo. Although he used the name MikeUKPO53EX, the other debaters logging into the chatroom could discover his profile by clicking on that user name.

    He told the judge: “The whole thing got out of hand when the Iraq war started. I took the view that the war was wrong and she was very strongly in favour of Mr Bush and the war.”

    In 2003 Williams, using the pseudonym “Gos” or “Gosforth”, began her campaign of abuse against Mr Keith Smith, calling him a “lard brain”, a “nonce”, a Nazi, and accusing him of sexually harassing a female co-worker. When he sought to discover her identity and begin court proceedings she continued the abuse, calling him a “racist bigot” and “maggot”.

    The judge said: “She was cocking a snook at the court and solicitors and she had no intention of stopping her libellous and defamatory behaviour.” She indicated that she would set up a new website and Mr Keith Smith was concerned that she would repeat the statements.
    Last edited by Denny Crane!; March 24, 2006 at 01:35 PM.

  2. #2
    King Henry V's Avatar Behold your King
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    That woman should have been banned for continued flaming before the whole thing got out of hand. Though I think a court case was a bit severe.
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  3. #3
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    I think the most important thing is the fact that libel laws are being used inappropriatly. They are there to address the balance of power and to protect people from untrue claims when said by people of authority like the media (with all the onus that implies like high readership and persuasive power), to give them a way to argue back. Where in a normal discussion people are debating or insulting on the same level and no realistic damage is done.

    Peter

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    Darth Wong's Avatar Pit Bull
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowen70
    I think the most important thing is the fact that libel laws are being used inappropriatly. They are there to address the balance of power and to protect people from untrue claims when said by people of authority like the media (with all the onus that implies like high readership and persuasive power), to give them a way to argue back. Where in a normal discussion people are debating or insulting on the same level and no realistic damage is done.

    Peter
    That is not exactly true. If you ran around posting flyers on telephone poles around your neighbourhood saying that your next-door neighbour is a pedophile, he could sue you for libel and probably win. The fact that you're not "the media" is not relevant; all that matters is whether you are able to successfully convince anyone that you're right, ie- you actually damage his reputation through your actions. If this woman was persistent enough to convince anyone that the guy really was guilty of sex offenses, then he has a legitimate case.

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  5. #5
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Wong
    That is not exactly true. If you ran around posting flyers on telephone poles around your neighbourhood saying that your next-door neighbour is a pedophile, he could sue you for libel and probably win. The fact that you're not "the media" is not relevant; all that matters is whether you are able to successfully convince anyone that you're right, ie- you actually damage his reputation through your actions. If this woman was persistent enough to convince anyone that the guy really was guilty of sex offenses, then he has a legitimate case.
    The judge in the case admitted the forum was of a limited audience and only awarded damages for the potential of a large audience. Very different to your example. Surely a more sensible judgement would of been the removal of the comments (ie. a moderator action) rather than £10000 and £12000 fines (approx $25000 dollars I think).

    If it had been spoken by someone of authority it would be a different matter or if actual damage had been done to the persons reputation.

    Peter

  6. #6

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    Uh oh, hopefully the US government doesn't learn of this or else that guy Mike may be sued for calling Bush a homosexual satanist.
    Swear filters are for sites run by immature children.

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    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanaric
    Uh oh, hopefully the US government doesn't learn of this or else that guy Mike may be sued for calling Bush a homosexual satanist.
    i've read alot of mikes posts and i think he'd kick ***

    say it loud mike is nuts!!(and whisper but he might be right)

  8. #8
    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanaric
    Uh oh, hopefully the US government doesn't learn of this or else that guy Mike may be sued for calling Bush a homosexual satanist.
    free until proven guilty

  9. #9

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    When I saw the title of this topic I thought it was going to talk about political correctness- in which case I would've came in and wished you all a Merry Christmas.

    Seeing as it is not, however, I'll comment that some people need to learn when to stop.

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  10. #10
    Darth Wong's Avatar Pit Bull
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    Quote Originally Posted by Septimius Severus
    Seeing as it is not, however, I'll comment that some people need to learn when to stop.
    Yeah, some people need to realize that freedom of speech doesn't mean you can libel someone by falsely accusing him of being a child molester.

    Yes, I have a life outside the Internet and Rome Total War
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  11. #11
    Count of Montesano's Avatar Civitate
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    Yes Darth but in this case the man being libeled is a public political figure, which changes the whole equation. This case is the equivalent of Bush suing whoever set up that whole "Bush is the Antichrist" website. As much as we don't like it, people have the right to rant against public figures and use satire to get their point across. Otherwise, where do you draw the line? Can a political figure sue you for calling him a meathead or village idiot? Under this ruling, Kayne West better get ready to fork over serious dough for saying Bush hates black people.

    British law is already notorious for clamping down on free debate. Several corporations have used British libel laws to shut down investigative journalists. The libel laws are so severe that a reporter needs truckloads of evidence (eyewitness reports are considered hearsay and leaked reports are inadmissable in many cases) to defend an otherwise solidly researched and written article.

  12. #12
    mongoose's Avatar Domesticus
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    Sue you to stop? Yes, but they shouldn't recieve money if no one believes you. If you're making general subjective statements like "idiot", then you have the right to do that. How ever, if you say something that is an out right lie, then you should be sued.


    The fact that they're public figures doesn't really matter, if people think you eat the organs of small children, then being a senator isn't going to help you much.

    When people make statements such as "Bush used gaint Haliburton machines to create Hurricane Katrina, and he guided it so it would hurt black people the most!", or "John Kerry was behind the 911 WTC attacks!", I'm not going to be in tears when they get sued.
    Last edited by mongoose; March 26, 2006 at 01:53 PM.

  13. #13

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    Yeah, some people need to realize that freedom of speech doesn't mean you can libel someone by falsely accusing him of being a child molester.
    Anonymous flaming of a person online isn't libel. Nobody believes these people. Material from a reputable source is libel, not flames.

    This is the equivellent as to sueing a person for non stop going to your CS server and calling someone a ******(bad word for homosexuals that starts with F).

    This case is the equivalent of Bush suing whoever set up that whole "Bush is the Antichrist" website.
    Exactly, nobody sues for that BS. Its childish and idiotic to do so.
    Swear filters are for sites run by immature children.

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