A Sneak Peek Preview of RESTITVTOR ORBIS

[Joar]

I'll tray to explain what I requested:

Mod: Restitutor Urbis

Campaign: Tetrarchy

Event: Reform (In which Diocletianus founded the Tetrarcy)

I think you mean as an event image that pops up? It's doable, although I'm not sure how julianus heraclius wants this event to happen yet.

[Diocle]

I'll tray to explain what I requested:

Mod: Restitutor Urbis

Campaign: Tetrarchy

Event: Reform (In which Diocletianus founded the Tetrarcy)

Image on the screen of the Reform: Image of the 4 Tetrarchs similar to the sculptur in the base of the church of S.Marco in Venice.

If you cannot understand my request, is obviously not for your responsibility, but is my english which is very very very very bad
but at this point I'll give up, at the end it wasn't a request of great importance!



For AirAssault: No I do not belive putting the SMarco sculpture on the Roman faction Emblemata would be a good Idea!!

Thanks Joar, it is exactly what I requested!
But Ehi! is not a very important request! you modders, do what do you think is right for this great Mod, for me your choices are always OK!!

[Diocletianus]

I am not able to determine wich one is ( the tetrarchs )....

[Diocle]

I am not able to determine wich one is ( the tetrarchs )....

I read somewhere that the 4 figures of the emperors could be identifiable one by one but I cannot remember the book from which I took the notice! , I studied architecture here in Italy and I have a good collection of books about the art and architecture of this period, I'll conduct a research .
The sculpture, (in reality two distinct blocks which, for sure, don't were assembled like today) was taken by the Venetians sacking Constantinopolis during the Crusades, embarked on a galley, taken to Venice and used as angular stone in the base of the church of S.Marco, on the right side, where you can find them today.
I sow this, not too large, sculpture is fantastic! the stone is almost dark purple (I think it is made of marble but I can't say for sure maybe granite), for sure it depict the 4 tetrarchs disposed at couples: the Augustus Diocletianus embraces his Caesar: Galerio and the other Augustus Massimianus embraces his respective Caesar Constantius Clorus! each figure is individually characterized but I don't know who is who, I cannot associate a face to a name!!!
We could launch a competition: who find who is who among the 4 figures will recive a version of the Mod personalized by Joar (now Joar don't ask me: "How?", I dont now!)

[Diocletianus]

I sow this, not too large, sculpture is fantastic! the stone is almost dark purple (I think it is made of marble but I can't say for sure maybe granite), for sure it depict the 4 tetrarchs disposed at couples: the Augustus Diocletianus embraces his Caesar: Galerio and the other Augustus Massimianus embraces his respective Caesar Constantius Clorus! each figure is individually characterized but I don't know who is who, I cannot associate a face to a name!!!

The stone is ,as we call it in french, « Poryphe » .

It is almost certain the augustus and the ceasars are coupled together . They don't seem to bear any differences in the sculpture of the face and in the clothes. I think they were made to show a symbol of a four emperor rule with a united entire roman empire.

[Agent007]

The material used for the «Four Tetrarchs» is porphyry indeed; it's a strong rock, used in sculpture destined to endure the ravages of time, and also possessed that royal symbolism of the purple colour.

Remember the later Byzantine Emperors nicknamed Porphyrogenitos, meaning "born in the purple"? Well, they were indeed born in it; many of them bearing that cognomen were born in a room located in the old Great Palace of Constantinople adorned with walls, floor and ceiling, made of porphyry. And, Diocletianus, it's "porphyre" en français, not "poryphe" (a typo, perhaps?)

What Diocle means is only just to have a picture of the sculpture in the mod as an event picture, in case the creation of the Tetrarchy under Diocletian is triggered/represented (I guess it depends, according to the campaign) in the mod by an event.

As for the sculpture, I don't remember if the Tetrarchs were really differentiated. In any case, they weren't, in their representations, while the system vigorated. Even in coinage, the faces represented were identical all over the Empire, with only the name of the Tetrach being different. The "division" in four parts was not (at all) as accentuated as it would be some fifty years later, on the days of Julian, in three or two parts, depending of the specific period. The Empire was really still regarded effectively as one single entity.

Here: http://www.arkeo3d.com/byzantium1200/capitolium.html you can see where the sculpture was originally, in early Constantinople. The Capitolium, a building that, apparently, was already quite a ruin in the days of medieval Constantinople (8th century-onwards).

[Diocle]

The stone is ,as we call it in french, « Poryphe » .

It is almost certain the augustus and the ceasars are coupled together . They don't seem to bear any differences in the sculpture of the face and in the clothes. I think they were made to show a symbol of a four emperor rule with a united entire roman empire.

Dear Diocletianus, sorry but I must disagree with you, for me the 4 heads in the sculpture do have same differences: in the photo (use the zoom) in the attachment we can clearly distinguish that 2 of them have a short beard and the other 2 don't have any beard, maybe in this way they differentiate between the two Caesari and the two Augusti?
I'll continue to investigate!

[M. Licinius Ibeii]

I read the little spat between Chaplain 118 and Emperor Caesar with interest.

Caesar, let me tell you a story which perfectly illustrates the problems the emperors had to deal with during the Third Century Crisis.

Around 248, a general called Pacatianus was proclaimed emperor by the Moesian legions on the Danube. The emperor Philip the Arab was in a bit of a quandary, because barbarians were threatening the borders and another rebellion had broken out in the East. But when he offered to resign, a highly respected senator called Decius stood up and said: "Here's what you must do... You should gather an imperial army, choose your enemy and go and beat up on him."

"Great idea," said Philip. "Tell you what, you seem to know what you're doing - why don't you go instead?"

"Because if I do," said Decius, "this is what's going to happen. I'm going to march on Pacatianus, and his troops are going to kill him before I get there, because Pacatianus is an idiot and his troops are out of control. Then, they're going to gang up with my legionaries, and they're going to come to me and say: 'You're a great guy, Decius, we want you to be emperor.' And I'm going to say: 'I don't want to be emperor, because I am a good and loyal servant of Philip.' And they'll say: 'You have a choice. Either you let us declare you emperor, or we kill you.' And I'll say: 'Emperor sounds good to me.' And then I'll turn my legions round and march back to Rome and I'll be forced to kill you, just to survive."

"Don't be stupid," said Philip. "You're loyal, the legions are loyal, no-one can force you to rebel if you don't want to. Do it anyway."

So Decius marched against Pacatianus and everything panned out exactly as he predicted, because what both Philip and you (Caesar) failed to understand is that by the mid-C3, the game had fundamentally changed.

I once did the math: during the period 193-284, the average life-expectancy of anyone who declared himself emperor was approximately 2 years. And that includes Septimius Severus who reigned for c.18 years and Gallienus who ruled for c.8 years as sole emperor and c.5 years as joint emperor with his father Valerian before that. Of those, only ONE emperor died of old age - Septimius Severus. Another died of the plague, and a handful were killed by the enemies of Rome. Every other emperor or usurper during the C3 was killed by his own men. Emperors could no longer count on loyalty, even from their MOST loyal generals - just look at what happened to Gallienus, Aurelian, Probus, Carinus... I could go on.

To pick up on another thread, I have always thought that Gallienus was highly underrated by his contemporaries. When I did my PhD on this subject, I became pretty convinced that the empire survived because Valerian & Gallienus recognised the problem and did several things to try and fix it, including splitting the Empire between them and removing the most dangerous and volatile provinces from the control of Senators. But it still didn't help them. Gallienus was assassinated by the Illyrian soldier generals he promoted to fill the void once they'd gained enough prestige to make it on their own. The Empire then got saved by the 'Virtus Illyrici' of Claudius, Aurelian and their successors - and I've argued elsewhere that 'Virtus Illyrici' is just another way of saying that with the Illyrian soldier-emperors, the late C3 saw a continuity of strategic thinking that emerged under the School of Gallienus and continued down through Diocletian - despite the official emperor being offed by his own troops every 4 or 5 years.

Now, I'm hoping that this mod will reflect that in a variety of subtle ways which I have suggested over the past few months. But if you try to run your empire like Trajan, you're likely to have a short but interesting experience.

I'm sure that'll get the ball rolling again. Apologies if I don't take much part in the debate - too much work, not enough time.

[Wallachian]

This is the first time i notice this mod. Looks very very interesting, never been a fan of this period too much but this mod may convert me Im very curious as to how the Carpi will look like.

[Lionheart]

so when a preview about the Gallic empire will appear??? i know this is kinda boring ask, but if you release a preview then a new patch for Sai will also pop up.

[julianus heraclius]

so when a preview about the Gallic empire will appear??? i know this is kinda boring ask, but if you release a preview then a new patch for Sai will also pop up.

A preview about the Gallic Empire will be included under the Romans preview, and they won't be the next.

[Lionheart]

i see. so what is planned next? a persian preview? a armenian one? a celtic? or a german one?

[tomySVK]

The trigger for the Diocletian reforms will also happen in 260 Gallienus´ campaign, when the player reach the year 286 AD?

[Diocle]

The trigger for the Diocletian reforms will also happen in 260 Gallienus´ campaign, when the player reach the year 286 AD?

tomy, very interesting question!.......

[First Citizen Gallienus]

Fascinating posts. I too wonder about the reform script working for Gallienus btw.

[julianus heraclius]

The trigger for the Diocletian reforms will also happen in 260 Gallienus´ campaign, when the player reach the year 286 AD?

It will happen for each campaign when the player reaches the year 286AD.

[Diocle]

And this was exactly my hope!! Thanks Master julianus!!!!

[Constantius]

πολλὰ μὲν οὖν καὶ ἔδρασαν καὶ ἔπαθον οἱ Βυζάντιοι, ἅτε τοῖς ἐκ τῆς οἰκουμένης ὡς εἰπεῖν στόλοις ἐπὶ ὅλον τριετῆ χρόνον πολιορκούμενοι: λελέξεται δὲ ὀλίγα καὶ τὰ ἐχόμενά τινος θαύματος. ᾕρουν μὲν γὰρ καὶ πλοῖά τινα παραπλέοντα εὐκαίρως ἐπιτιθέμενοι, ᾕρουν δὲ καὶ τριήρεις τῶν ” Cassius Dio 75.12.1 describes Septimus Severus besieging Byzantium in AD 193, the Latinised form of Βυζάντιοι is Byzantines, but that's how it is said in English where is Diocle

That does not actual answer your question, does it? Let me see if I can find a reference to the town in Latin
Every time it's mentioned in Roman histories it is in Greek, Polybius V. 63& 65 again Greek I cannot think of a Latin mention of it, at the moment

[SeniorBatavianHorse]

Blimey, it's all Greek to me . . .

[Diocle]

'polla men oun kai edrasan kai epaton Buzantioi, ate tois ek tes oikumenes os eipein stolois epi olon triete kronon poliorcumenoi: lelexetai de ologa kai ta ekomena tinos thaumatos erun men gar kai ploia tina parapleonta eukairos epitithemenoi erun de kai triereis tov'

Thanks Constantius what beautiful memories!! (actually it was the Hell anyway studing this language with some beautiful girfriend was very helpful!!!) dear Constantius do you transalate or I'll do it myself?