What can be learned from the Norway Tragedy about Counter-Terror Response

[Farnan]

What can be done to prevent a terror attack of this magnitude from happening again?

Some suggestions:

First, based off this (from wiki):

At 17:27 the local police district learned about the shooting, and two minutes later the police in Oslo were informed.[6] By 17:38 Beredskapstroppen , the Norwegian central SWAT unit was despatched to Utøya from their headquarters in Oslo.[6] They reached the ferry crossing at 18:09, but had to wait a few minutes for a boat to take them across. They reached Utøya at 18:25, and two minutes later they had arrested the gunman.[6]

It took them about an hour to get to a location around 25 miles away, and they had to wait for a boat to get accross. From this its clear that Crisis Response Units need access to dedicated helicopters and other quick response vehicles so that they can quickly respond to events like this. It could have saved precious time if they had such equipment.

Second, create a terror response drill. Knowing what we know now, in the event of a terror attack any large political gathering in the area should be immediately secured. I'm not blaming Norway on this at all, no one could have predicted it. But if we ensure that if another attack occurs we dispatch police and/or military forces to secure possible high value targets we can ensure a bluff like this doesn't cause problems.

[Makrell]

Utøya wasnt a hiigh value target

[Farnan]

Utøya wasnt a hiigh value target

As Imperial said it was a political camp... Same level as a political rally.

High value targets:

Government
Military Leadership
Economic Centers (major bank and corporate headquarters)
Political Rallys/Camps
Major Religious Centers (large Mosques/Churchs/Synagogues)
Sports Games
Concerts
And similar large scale events.

[Imperial]

Utøya wasnt a hiigh value target

A political summer camp that has 600 kids attending on a very small island that isn't accessible by car or helicopter? Sounds like the perfect place for a terror attack. Not to mention that the PM was due to give a speech there at the following day.

[white-wolf]

What can be done to prevent a terror attack of this magnitude from happening again?

A close following up the Far-right Christian Templar wannabe groups by police?

[Adar]

I think that one key here is to make sure that the police maintain a working relationship with moderate rightwing organizations. Breivik was for example a member of Fraemskrittspartiet until 2006 when he left them due to them not being radical/racist enough.

Moderate but not mainstream organizations are an issue since they themselves are both legitimate and legal but also are likely to harbor more radical minorities. These radicals usually get into conflict with the moderate leaders within a few years and then either leave, are expelled or take over the organization.

By creating a working relationship with these organizations it's possible for the police to monitor the activities of potential terrorists since they non-mainstream organizations would warn the police of worrying activities conducted by (ex)members.

[athanaric]

Moderate but not mainstream organizations are an issue since they themselves are both legitimate and legal but also are likely to harbor more radical minorities.

This is true for every political or social movements though. I've encountered crazies in various situations. It's something we have to deal with, whether right wing or not.

By creating a working relationship with these organizations it's possible for the police to monitor the activities of potential terrorists since they non-mainstream organizations would warn the police of worrying activities conducted by (ex)members.

Let me paraphrase this:
"Leftist" and "Liberal" people in Western Europe and Norh America (this is far less of an issue in places like Turkey, Latin America, or India) have to accept that there is a conservative "right wing" with a non-Marxist opinion and that they have to work with them instead of trying to silence them via undemocratic methods and calling them "Nazis". That way, there will be a better political balance and the loons on either side will be easier to spot and isolate.

1.Get the balls to vote a law that more or less forces the population to make kids.
2.No need to import people to mentain your population.
3.Since there is no huge infusion of large numbers of people of foreign culture there is no rise in unrest.
4.Just brain drain the rest of the countries.
5.???
6.Profit.

Nice idea, but to actually have the population maintain itself, you'll have to improve certain social structures so that people don't have to choose between making a living or raising kids. IIRC this is less of an issue in Norway, though. Furthermore, you'll have to stop any state support (i.e. ban it, and stop funding it) for abortion unless in extreme cases.
Also, brain drain, despite being a popular sport in all eras and cultures, isn't really a nice thing to do. Why brain drain other countries instead of raising your own thinkers. There would still be a natural "minimal" amount of migration that has always been there.

[hellheaven1987]

The creation of National Guards...

...

...

...

Nevermind, I still lived in 1920s.

[Adar]

This is true for every political or social movements though. I've encountered crazies in various situations. It's something we have to deal with, whether right wing or not.

Certain organizations are more likely than other to attract violent people. Religious, nazi and socialist movements seem to be especially prone to this.

Let me paraphrase this:
"Leftist" and "Liberal" people in Western Europe and Norh America (this is far less of an issue in places like Turkey, Latin America, or India) have to accept that there is a conservative "right wing" with a non-Marxist opinion and that they have to work with them instead of trying to silence them via undemocratic methods and calling them "Nazis". That way, there will be a better political balance and the loons on either side will be easier to spot and isolate.

In general I agree with you but I would prefer to keep my statements ideologically neutral in this context.

[ShockBlast]

Nice idea, but to actually have the population maintain itself, you'll have to improve certain social structures so that people don't have to choose between making a living or raising kids.

That is the problem that is faced in the majority of countries,we have to chose between making a living or children.The trick is to make the kids a must for a better life.This can be achieved by both positive motivations (better loan rates for bying houses,discounts on taxes,even required in some government jobs - it would be a bit much to ack this from the private sector,etc. ) and negative motivations (cuts in income of 5%-10% , even losing the privilege of using some social services , etc).Some people might start moaning about the state intruding in their lives but having a healthy and happy populations is more important then a small minority upset over some principles.

IIRC this is less of an issue in Norway, though.

Norway is doing ok in this chapter but Germany is not by far.

Furthermore, you'll have to stop any state support (i.e. ban it, and stop funding it) for abortion unless in extreme cases.

Abortion can be kept out of the list,we want kids that are born in families who want them or need them to buy a house cheaper.

Also, brain drain, despite being a popular sport in all eras and cultures, isn't really a nice thing to do.

But we need ''moar brains'' to be honest all developed countries already do it and USA is making an important case out of it.

Why brain drain other countries instead of raising your own thinkers.

With a healthy educational system this can be done but you will have to keep them in your country but brain drain isn't still off the list,you can't have have enough smart people.

There would still be a natural "minimal" amount of migration that has always been there.

I know mate,i am not against migration but migration on large scale.

[ShockBlast]

What can be done to prevent a terror attack of this magnitude from happening again?

1.Get the balls to vote a law that more or less forces the population to make kids.
2.No need to import people to mentain your population.
3.Since there is no huge infusion of large numbers of people of foreign culture there is no rise in unrest.
4.Just brain drain the rest of the countries.
5.???
6.Profit.

[saglam2000]

They should've had helicopters, really the only problem i see here.

[Vanoi]

I think they should arm the police. From what people have told me the Norwegian police aren't even armed. I know norway has very restricting gun laws, but you have to atleast arm you police.

[O.Chrysostomos]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned unknown unknowns and how crucial it is for us to get to the bottom of the unknown unknowns so that we can at least know the unknowns.

I think they should arm the police. From what people have told me the Norwegian police aren't even armed. I know norway has very restricting gun laws, but you have to atleast arm you police.

Breivik bought all of his guns legally in Norway.

[Vanoi]

Breivik bought all of his guns legally in Norway.

I know he did, but the doens't will address the point. Norwegian police should be armed with a weapon. What if something like this happens again and police are around, but they are unarmed? They may as well just sit there and do nothing. any effective police force in my opinion should be armed.

[O.Chrysostomos]

A point of yours was that Norway has very restricting gun laws, I merely pointed out that the gun laws are not that restricting.

Plenty of innocent people have been erroneously shot to death in the UK, personally I believe most police are barbarians so they shouldn't be armed. Policing should be an exacting science, not akin to trying to open a walnut with a .45.

[Poach]

Unfortunately it often takes a tragedy such as this in order to spur along reform. I know the 7th of July bombings in the UK have brought about debate and reform to emergency services relating to counter-terrorism responses.

Dedicated helicopters would be an immediate solution to the matter. Security reforms could also be looked it: how did he get onto that island with weaponry in the first place? Could that be avoided in future? How did he legally purchase such weapons if he was a member of the far right?

[O.Chrysostomos]

How did he legally purchase such weapons if he was a member of the far right?

That sets a dangerous precedent; either outlaw guns completely or allow them for anyone who meets certain criteria. Someone's political allegiance shouldn't be brought into consideration.

He could as easily have been a member of Antifa or an anarchist group or another left group known for violence.

What does far-right even mean? Breivik described himself as a cultural conservative but he was pro gay rights, pro women's rights, pro-Israel...

[Poach]

That sets a dangerous precedent; either outlaw guns completely or allow them for anyone who meets certain criteria. Someone's political allegiance shouldn't be brought into consideration.

He could as easily have been a member of Antifa or an anarchist group or another left group known for violence.

What does far-right even mean? Breivik described himself as a cultural conservative but he was pro gay rights, pro women's rights, pro-Israel...

What I meant was, did the security services know anything about him in advance? Obviously I'm not privvy to the documents of Norway's secret police/services, I was only suggesting more consideration could be made in the future in terms of keeping tabs on gun-owners with potentially extremist views, or indeed preventing them getting hold of them at all.

[O.Chrysostomos]

What I meant was, did the security services know anything about him in advance? Obviously I'm not privvy to the documents of Norway's secret police/services, I was only suggesting more consideration could be made in the future in terms of keeping tabs on gun-owners with potentially extremist views, or indeed preventing them getting hold of them at all.

Oh I see, rather than prevent "extreme right wingers" from owning guns, keep tabs on gun owners, sorry for misunderstanding you.

Apparently he was a model citizen with no convictions. I've seen excerpts from his manifesto/confession on various websites; he even cautions people to not talk about their extreme views with others so the police service in Norway would have had no idea what was going on unless they presumably had a keylogger on his computer.