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  1. #1

    Default The Super Congress

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_907887.html
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    WASHINGTON -- Debt ceiling negotiators think they've hit on a solution to address the debt ceiling impasse and the public's unwillingness to let go of benefits such as Medicare and Social Security that have been earned over a lifetime of work: Create a new Congress.
    This "Super Congress," composed of members of both chambers and both parties, isn't mentioned anywhere in the Constitution, but would be granted extraordinary new powers. Under a plan put forth by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and his counterpart Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), legislation to lift the debt ceiling would be accompanied by the creation of a 12-member panel made up of 12 lawmakers -- six from each chamber and six from each party.
    Legislation approved by the Super Congress -- which some on Capitol Hill are calling the "super committee" -- would then be fast-tracked through both chambers, where it couldn't be amended by simple, regular lawmakers, who'd have the ability only to cast an up or down vote. With the weight of both leaderships behind it, a product originated by the Super Congress would have a strong chance of moving through the little Congress and quickly becoming law. A Super Congress would be less accountable than the system that exists today, and would find it easier to strip the public of popular benefits. Negotiators are currently considering cutting the mortgage deduction and tax credits for retirement savings, for instance, extremely popular policies that would be difficult to slice up using the traditional legislative process.
    House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) has made a Super Congress a central part of his last-minute proposal, multiple news reports and people familiar with his plan say. A picture of Boehner's proposal began to come into focus Saturday evening: The debt ceiling would be raised for a short-term period and coupled with an equal dollar figure of cuts, somewhere in the vicinity of a trillion dollars over ten years. A second increase in the debt ceiling would be tied to the creation of a Super Congress that would be required to find a minimum amount of spending cuts. Because the the elevated panel would need at least one Democratic vote, it would be presumably include at least some revenue, though, if it's anything like the deals on the table today, would likely be heavily slanted toward spending cuts. Or, as Obama said of the deal he was offering Republicans before Boehner walked out, "If it was unbalanced, it was unbalanced in the direction of not enough revenue."
    Republicans, however, are looking to force a second debt ceiling fight as part of the package, despite the Democratic rejection of the plan. Under the Republican plan, lawmakers would need to weigh in on the debt ceiling during the heat of the presidential election, a proposal Democrats reject as risky to the nation's credit rating. "We expressed openness to two stages of cuts, but not to a short-term debt limit extension," a Democratic aide close to the negotiations said. "Republicans only want the debt ceiling extended as far as the cuts in each tranch. That means we’ll be right back where we are today a few months down the road. We are not a Banana Republic. You don’t run America like that."

    The aide said that Democrats are open to a series of cuts as well as a Super Congress, but only if the debt ceiling is raised sufficiently so that it pushes past the election. "Our proposal tonight was, do two tranches of cuts, but raise the debt ceiling through 2012 right now, though the McConnell process would be one way," said the aide, leaving open the possibility that Boehner could craft a new process and distinguish it from McConnell's, which the Tea Party despises as a dereliction of duty. "Do that now with a package of cuts, and have the joint committee" -- the Super Congress -- "report out a package that would be the second tranch. Republicans rejected that, and continued to push a short-term despite the fact that Reid, Pelosi and Obama all could not have been clearer that they will not support a short-term increase. A short term risks some of the same consequences as outright failure to raise the ceiling -- downgraded credit rating, stocks plunge, interest rates spike, etc. It is unclear why Republicans have made this their sticking point."
    Boehner spokesman Michael Steel argued that the inability to come to a larger deal so far left a short-term extension as an "inevitable" option. "For months, we have laid out our principles to pass a bill that fulfills the president's request to increase the debt limit beyond the next election. We have passed a debt limit increase with the reforms the American people demand, the 'Cut, Cap, and Balance' bill. The Democrats who run Washington have refused to offer a plan," he said in a statement. "Now, as a result, a two-step process is inevitable. Like the president and the entire bipartisan, bicameral congressional leadership, we continue to believe that defaulting on the full faith and credit of the United States is not an option."
    Obama has shown himself to be a fan of the commission approach to cutting social programs and entitlements. Shortly after taking office, Obama held a major conference on deficit reduction and subsequently created, by executive order, The National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform. The White House made two telling appointments to chair the commission: The first was former Sen. Alan Simpson (R-Wy.), a well known and ill informed critic of Social Security who earned notoriety by suggesting, among other things, that the American government had become "a milk cow with 310 million tits!" His Democratic appointment was even more indicative of whose interests took priority, former Sen. Erskine Bowles (D-N.C.). Bowles is a member of Morgan Stanley's board of directors; an adviser to Carousel Capital, a private equity firm; and is a director of Cousins Properties Incorporated, a firm with significant investments in commercia
    Simpson and Bowles, unsurprisingly, produced a report recommending corporate and high-end tax cuts, along with cuts to Social Security, Medicare, veterans' benefits and a host of other social programs.
    The commission needed 14 of 18 members to approve the plan in order for it to advance to Congress for a vote. The commission fell short, but did win a majority.
    Proponents of slashing spending won't make the same mistake with a new Super Congress. Only a simple majority will be necessary.


    If this passes, the republic is dead.

  2. #2
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: The Super Congress

    How so?
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  3. #3

    Default Re: The Super Congress

    Yeah interested in that, as you'd need to impose a monarchy in order to end the Republic.

  4. #4
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: The Super Congress

    Plus, a similar measure is taken for almost all bills that go through Congress, its usually at the end though where the committe discusses how to hash out the difference between the House and Senate version of bills.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Super Congress

    Where is this in the constitution?

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Super Congress

    This is like an oligarchy with the rest of Congress only becoming a rubber stamp. It'd ruin the American governmental system.
    For Science



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  7. #7
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: The Super Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Leary View Post
    Where is this in the constitution?
    Article One, Section 5
    Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two-thirds, expel a Member
    Quote Originally Posted by generalveers View Post
    This is like an oligarchy with the rest of Congress only becoming a rubber stamp. It'd ruin the American governmental system.
    No, not at all. What it is is a committee which drafts a law that will be put before the vote of the rest of Congress. Only thing special is that it has people from both houses, and is led by the senior party leadership.

    Not really weird at all, they just have a crazy name.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  8. #8

    Default Re: The Super Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    No, not at all. What it is is a committee which drafts a law that will be put before the vote of the rest of Congress. Only thing special is that it has people from both houses, and is led by the senior party leadership.
    Actually no. They stated that lower members would not be able to modify the bill, which would destroy what little influence local politics have in Congress. Not to mention it would just concentrate the lobbying efforts within that committee and increase party politics while detracting from popular influence. The people would not be able to decide who gets on that committee to make the laws so why should their opinions matter?
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  9. #9
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: The Super Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by generalveers View Post
    Actually no. They stated that lower members would not be able to modify the bill, which would destroy what little influence local politics have in Congress. Not to mention it would just concentrate the lobbying efforts within that committee and increase party politics while detracting from popular influence. The people would not be able to decide who gets on that committee to make the laws so why should their opinions matter?
    They won't be able to modify it but they will be able to vote it down, and then propose their own bills...

    Anyways they just reversed the order of a process already done:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...ence_committee

    I wish people would have the facts before making wild claims.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Super Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    Article One, Section 5

    Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two-thirds, expel a Member
    No, not at all. What it is is a committee which drafts a law that will be put before the vote of the rest of Congress. Only thing special is that it has people from both houses, and is led by the senior party leadership.

    Not really weird at all, they just have a crazy name.
    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    They won't be able to modify it but they will be able to vote it down, and then propose their own bills...

    Anyways they just reversed the order of a process already done:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...ence_committee

    I wish people would have the facts before making wild claims.
    Conference committees have never crossed Senate/Congress lines before. This is new and somewhat shady. Not sure I like it.

  11. #11
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: The Super Congress

    How this would ever pass IDK. House Republicans would never go for it. Plus wouldnt it create deadlock on complicated issues due to the 6-6 layout by party. What if they have a tie every time.

    I find it odd they would try fit other things into a debt ceiling bill, but perhaps some see this as a necessity. I could understand how Boehner is frustrated with his uncompromising tea party base that he would be willing to support this but it would never pass.
    Last edited by MathiasOfAthens; July 24, 2011 at 06:21 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: The Super Congress

    This is something that won't happen. Congress can really only pass small maintenance bills at this point, and even then it is difficult for them.
    Swear filters are for sites run by immature children.

  13. #13
    Justice and Mercy's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: The Super Congress

    I actually like this idea. The lawmaking process is too chaotic. Bills should be straightforward and yes-or-no. The process of legislation would be less about personalities and cliques and more about policy.

    A surprising show of statesmanship from this Congress, who have otherwise disappointed me at every turn.

    EDIT: Ah, Farnan beat me to explaining the constitutionality of this.
    Last edited by Justice and Mercy; July 24, 2011 at 04:36 PM.
    The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. - James Madison

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Super Congress

    It's not really necessary. It's the simple fact that these people are failing to do their jobs.
    Heir to Noble Savage in the Imperial House of Wilpuri

  15. #15
    Justice and Mercy's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: The Super Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    It's not really necessary.
    No, but it's good.

    I would personally extend these properties to any bill that the writers may wish to extend them to.

    No more bandying, alliances, backroom deals, and cliques.

    Just: "Yes, or no?"
    The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. - James Madison

  16. #16
    EmperorBatman999's Avatar I say, what, what?
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    Default Re: The Super Congress

    I wanted reform in this country, positive reform. Not this stupid .

  17. #17
    mw2xboxplayer's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The Super Congress

    All of this is over the debt ceiling negotiations? There is no need to create a 'super congress', it's just another distraction drawing attention away from the issue at hand.

    A 'super congress' has never been needed in the past, only the compromise of the political parties. What is needed to resolve this debate is compromise, not the creation new government bodies.
    Last edited by mw2xboxplayer; July 24, 2011 at 10:28 PM.

  18. #18
    Justice and Mercy's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: The Super Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by mw2xboxplayer View Post
    All of this is over the debt ceiling negotiations? There is no need to create a 'super congress', it's just another distraction drawing attention away from the issue at hand.
    No, actually it's an attempt to solve a factor in the problem at hand.

    Just wondering, what kind of "distraction" would be placed in the very bill it's meant to be a distraction for?

    A 'super congress' has never been needed in the past, only the compromise of the political parties. What is needed to resolve this debate is compromise, not the creation new government bodies.
    It's not a new government body, it's a new kind of committee.

    Frankly though it's not the committee that interests me so much as the new version of bills.
    The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. - James Madison

  19. #19
    mw2xboxplayer's Avatar Senator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justice and Mercy View Post
    No, actually it's an attempt to solve a factor in the problem at hand.

    Just wondering, what kind of "distraction" would be placed in the very bill it's meant to be a distraction for?
    Instead of fully focusing efforts upon resolving the debt debates, politicians now have to concern themselves with passing this new 'super congress'.

    Whatever helps to resolve these negotiations will be a benefit. However, is creating this new committee the answer to this problem?

  20. #20
    Justice and Mercy's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: The Super Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by mw2xboxplayer View Post
    Instead of fully focusing efforts upon resolving the debt debates, politicians now have to concern themselves with passing this new 'super congress'.
    ...as part of a bill that lifts the debt ceiling.

    I haven't looked at this bill, but I like this particular idea.

    However, is creating this new committee the answer to this problem?
    To this problem? No, it's too late for that. But it will be an answer to future problems of this kind.

    But it's effects, IMO, extend even further than that. Again, I see a potential escape from lackeyism and backroom deals.

    Well, at least so much of it.
    The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. - James Madison

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