Map Blog 3 - PSFs (8th Entry - PSF Script)

[Haertelius Magnus]

...
I want to emphasise that Dominion, (as I have come to realise) is in fact more of a historical simulator than just a strategy game.

This exactly what I am hoping for ....

[bizarcasm]

Tuscany is geographical area. Our faction Comuni Toscani changes its COA based on the actual capital.

So wait, are you saying it’s possible to change the coat of arms of a faction without using another faction slot? I was under the impression that you couldn’t have more faction symbols than the maximum number of factions, ie, 31. Every time someone mentions the “Kalmar Union” script, they claim that it uses a faction slot, and I had thought this must be the reason why.

[Lуra]

But will the faction transitions afect the faction's color? For example Aragon becoming the Crown of Aragon? (Azure -->Or and Gules)

[Morrowgan]

Verona

[Skyn0s]

Excellent work on the map guys !! Love it (except the mini-map)

[napoleonic]

hmm Turin? I've read several discussion on SS forum about they make a better map for SS and it is generally agreed that Turin wasn't really important in medieval age? wouldn't some swiss/german city make a better choice?

[Resurrection]

hmm Turin? I've read several discussion on SS forum about they make a better map for SS and it is generally agreed that Turin wasn't really important in medieval age? wouldn't some swiss/german city make a better choice?

I wonder on what they based such claims since Turin was basically always capital of that particular area (Piedmont as it is known today). You also don't mention any alternatives and from all the PSFs in the region only Asti or Alessandria could come into play. Both were improtant only relatively briefly and declined during our timeframe unlike Turin. The former capital of Savoy before Turin was Chambelery which is not in Italy but in today's France and back then it was part of Kingdom of Burgundy, by 1080 part of divided Burgundy under Lyon (Burgogne Cisjurane in DotS).

Anyway, since we don't base are layout on settlements but on regions it is pointless to suggest settlements elsewhere like in Switzerland or Germany (HRE), especially since the former had no important city in 1080 yet and not even centuries beyond that and we even had to base its region around Basel.

Feel free to suggest better alternative to Turin in Piedmont (our region is called Marca Arduinica though as it was known throughout most of our timeframe; name Piedmont is only from 14th century onwards).

[Jimmy-j]

Italy looks good, it makes me wanting to be an italian

[Ballacraine]

I would just like to open by saying I greatly admire your dedication & skills in pulling all the diverse elements of the history, geography & politics of the campaign starting positions.

This is undoubtedly going to be an iconic piece of work.

I don't doubt you have my concern covered already, but I had better ask anyway.

I can appreciate the team are striving for historical accuracy & aiming for more of a simulation.
That said, as soon as you start the game the 'What if?' factor immediately kicks in.
The point I am coming to is that whilst the start point may be historical, what actually happened after the start date is no longer fixed.
Don't be hidebound by what actually occured after the start date, as any scripting for historic events may not be of relevance in the gameworld at the trigger point.
If you are tied too much to repeating history, I think it would detract a lot from the appeal & challenge.

Balla.

[Resurrection]

I would just like to open by saying I greatly admire your dedication & skills in pulling all the diverse elements of the history, geography & politics of the campaign starting positions.

This is undoubtedly going to be an iconic piece of work.

I don't doubt you have my concern covered already, but I had better ask anyway.

I can appreciate the team are striving for historical accuracy & aiming for more of a simulation.
That said, as soon as you start the game the 'What if?' factor immediately kicks in.
The point I am coming to is that whilst the start point may be historical, what actually happened after the start date is no longer fixed.
Don't be hidebound by what actually occured after the start date, as any scripting for historic events may not be of relevance in the gameworld at the trigger point.
If you are tied too much to repeating history, I think it would detract a lot from the appeal & challenge.

Balla.

At first this could make sense but not if you investigate it further. For instance if we followed your advice DotS would be very dull and except some differences (like the PSFs) it would be quite similar to other mods out there already. Simply because we could not give a player any additional content during the play since as you say "any scripting ... may not be of relevance".

Our scripting and gameplay content is not based on exact dates or on scripts that must fire. It is based on carefully constructed conditions that are supposed to mimic the events that led to scripted events in reality. Simply put you will see only those scripted events fire whose conditions were met. If you never fulfill them they will never fire.

For instance if you play as Aragon and you conquer Saragossa and Barcelona you will be presented with an option to establish Crown of Aragon. You may decline but if you accept it will change your faction via transition into its another evolution with new options etc. But if you never conquered those two you will never be able to establish Crown of Aragon.

Similar and often much more complicated conditions are set for all "scripted" events. We wanted not only historically accurate start date but also want to provide gameplay within historical framework. Of course you may violate from your faction's historical path but you will miss the content prepared for the more historical path of your faction. The reasoning is hopefully obvious, for the historical paths (units, techs, events etc.) we have basis and data. For "what ifs" we have nothing and simply don't want to make up stuff to satisfy someone's want to conquer Sweden as Moors (not to mention countless amount of possibilities). That should also differentiate DotS from other mods which offer more generic gameplay you speak of.

[Ballacraine]

Thanks for the detailed reply. Appreciated.

Let's see if I am understanding you correctly....

What you are saying is you are attempting to drive the game, from whichever selected faction, down an historical path & scripting events to encourage that?

Balla.

[Hengest]

Well I wouldn't say we are 'driving' we are encouraging the faction (player or AI) to progress within certain historical boundaries. The unique techs that each faction gets will emphasise certain attirbutes that the faction historically underwent (positive and negative). Now historically, there was 100 major events that created the development of Sicilian government and military institutions during the 450 years of the campaign period, and those 100 events such as the invasion of the Angevins or the Aragonese may not happen- but to represent the overall experiences and 'character' of the faction then Sicily will have access to techs that emphasise attributes.

This is just like any mod, or vanilla where you get say Scotland developing pikemen in the middle period. Now, historically they did this as a cheap efficient means to counter English heavy cav. If Scotland hadn't had the experience of the English cav victories, they wouldn't have developed that 'unit'. So even vanilla presupposes certain historical situations- it even tries to create them. Dominion is a bit more detailed in that respect, but it is also a bit more openworld than vanilla in many ways. It's just that the 'rules of the game' are more recognisable as realistic and historical. Hope this makes sense.

[Ballacraine]

Indeed it does.

Thanks for the detailed clarification.

Now that makes a lot more sense to me.

Encouraging the player to play to a faction's historical strengths.

Would that be a more accurate, succinct, crystalisation of your goals then?

( I'm just trying to get a decent grip of where you are trying to take the project. )

Balla.

[Admiral Piett]

My knowledge of Italian banners and COAs is very limited, but wasn't this, for example, Matilda's COA?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ssa-Stemma.png

No red in that.

[Resurrection]

My knowledge of Italian banners and COAs is very limited, but wasn't this, for example, Matilda's COA?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ssa-Stemma.png

No red in that.

Yes, Mathilda's CoA has no red. I fail to see the connection though.

[Hengest]

My knowledge of Italian banners and COAs is very limited, but wasn't this, for example, Matilda's COA?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ssa-Stemma.png

No red in that.

We could have used this, but it doesn't really represent Pisa or Florence or the Communes themselves. I believe this was just the personal arms of Matilda, and therefore we wouldn't have been used even by her heirs, which of course she do not have- certainly none that maintained control over the faction that we are calling 'the Tuscan Communes'. Basically it won't work for the Pisa/Florence faction slot.

[Admiral Piett]

We could have used this, but it doesn't really represent Pisa or Florence or the Communes themselves. I believe this was just the personal arms of Matilda, and therefore we wouldn't have been used even by her heirs, which of course she do not have- certainly none that maintained control over the faction that we are calling 'the Tuscan Communes'. Basically it won't work for the Pisa/Florence faction slot.

Actually, it also served as the Coat of Arms of Cannosa. That's why I cited it as just one example. I'm sure there are other COAs that could serve for the two main cities in both Communes.

[Hengest]

I'm not being funny, but if you can come up with something and cite actual sources (you can't just show us a pic and say 'this is historical') then we'd really look at it. We're not infallible. Well I am but the team isn't.
Keep in mind though that the Comuni Toscani faction is more than Matilda, more than Canossa and more than Pisa too. Of course we can make transitions, but transitions should also be more than changing a flag. A transition should be the transit from one era of a faction or people into another- this includes units, titles, tech trees etc.

The Pisan flag and the Florence flag are the best we could come up with.

[Admiral Piett]

I'm not being funny, but if you can come up with something and cite actual sources (you can't just show us a pic and say 'this is historical') then we'd really look at it. We're not infallible. Well I am but the team isn't.
Keep in mind though that the Comuni Toscani faction is more than Matilda, more than Canossa and more than Pisa too. Of course we can make transitions, but transitions should also be more than changing a flag. A transition should be the transit from one era of a faction or people into another- this includes units, titles, tech trees etc.

The Pisan flag and the Florence flag are the best we could come up with.

And I'm just trying to be constructive, not trying to spark debate nor needlessly criticize someone's hard, beautiful work. I didn't post a pic and say here use this, I just posted a pic as an example to generate discussion on what for sure we can and can't use. When I have some free time, I'll be happy to consult with others who have more knowledge about Medieval Italy than I and post some better ones and see what the team thinks.

[firekiller]

Nice map good work! Looking forward to see the complete map, think it looks very well thought of.

Thought i have a quistion about crusades in this new map how will they go whit this many forts (can be very possitive) how will the movement of crusades go? Expecailly late game wenn factions are at war whit eachader?

Futhermore you want it to be the most realistic mod arround, i suggest and i hope you dont use scripted charecters cause the conditions where they did arrive cant be recreated. Which side mods are you using i know magyar total war, baltic total war, CBUR and russhini but which more? Also how is the unit develoment going for the european factions going like HRE, itialian, France, denmark ect cause i think those factions can be mush more fun in this mod then in ather mods.

Keep up the good work looking forward.