Getting Byzantine Units

[Cope]

Hi, I'm still doing a Byzantine campaign but I'm struggling to find out how to get certain units. I noticed that someone posted about the Varangian Guard - but there are also others that seem to be missing to me in the campaign. I did have a little difficulty following the advise given in that thread since im a bit of a PC noob

I looked on custom battle at the Byzantine units, simply because the heavy cavalry I can get isn't what I'd expected for a faction who were known for Cataphract warfare. Low and behold there are a couple of cavalry units which look really cool and which I would like to use.

The units I don't know how to recruit are;
Varangian Guard
Dismounted Latinkon
Guard Archers
Kataphractoi
Archoutopulai

I'm quite late in the campaign (like 1300 or so) and have upgraded most of my castles fully as well as constantinople (for the most part) which is why I'm confused as to how I'm meant to recruit these units.

I'm on KGCM v. 4.2 and using the Heroes and Hordes mod.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[PlPs]

first of all didnt played KGCM but you can recruit cavs and many soldiers in castles not cities. you should upgrade your stable in castle then u'll get kataphraktoi and other elite cavs. Town Watch for infantries and Practice Range for archers

also this will help you

[Cope]

I have fully upgraded some of my castles and still I can't get the units. I have done it in Vanilla, so I think this is a mod specific issue, but thanks for the help anyway.

The Unit list thing is certainly helpful for stock ME2:TW but its not the same for this mod since there are new units and stuff which you can't get normally.

[Stylix]

I have fully upgraded some of my castles and still I can't get the units. I have done it in Vanilla, so I think this is a mod specific issue, but thanks for the help anyway.

Some units cannot be recruited until after the gundpowder event occurs. The Varangian Guard is an example of this. For an explanation of recruitment, see this post:
KGCM Advanced Late Era Recruitment

Dismounted Latinkon can be recruited in Castle Barracks.
Guard Archers can be recruited in Castle Archery Range.
Kataphractoi can be recruited in Castle Earls Stables.
These units can be recruited before the gunpowder event.

Archoutopulai can not be recruited in cities or castles, may be mercs although I have not investigated this yet.
I have attached an image showing Dismounted Latinkon able to be recruited in a castle with a barracks.

[Cope]

I've upgraded my castles as far as they can be upgraded with every possible building.

Here is what one of my fully upgraded castles has as buildings;
Drill Square
Practice Range,
Knights Stables,
Orthodox Chapel,
Port,
Blacksmith,
Catapult maker,
Dirt Roads,
Mines.

Clearly for some reason, maybe due to population, I cannot build the things I need. I don't understand why it would take so long for population to grow considering some of these castles I've had from the start of the game and are still only 1000-2000 in population despite the fact that they are growing. The game would end before I was able to build these things.

This is true for all of my castles (I checked them all). There is no single castle which has over 5000 population for some reason, even though I don't really ever exterminate population or whatever.

[Stylix]

@Leving

You need to get a good governor with high chivalry (among other traits) and place him in the castle. Also you did not list any farms. You need to have these maxed out as well.

[Cope]

I did have maxed out farms, sorry for not mentioning - but I found out its nothing to do with population. I converted a settlement of 6000 people into a castle and still not able to build past a certain point. Just so you know I am on HHM, and now I really have no idea at all what to do.

There should be some way of modding the code, but Ill have to wait for Dave to help I guess.

[Cope]

The problem I'm having is that I can't seem to be able to upgrade castles to fortresses...no ieda why.

[Stylix]

The problem I'm having is that I can't seem to be able to upgrade castles to fortresses...no ieda why.

If you hover your mouse cursor over the population in the settlement construction screen, it will tell you how much population is needed for the next settlement upgrade.

[Dave Scarface]

Hi Leving, in KGCM version 4.2 high period units were cut from the building tech trees altogether after the gunpowder discovered event was triggered. At this stage I wanted to force the recruitment of both player and AI into different choices. This was a little similar to the marian reforms in RTW where you were no longer able to recruit certain units and new ones became available. Why get rid of so many powerful units in the campaign you may ask? Well these units look very good stats wise but actually as you will find in custom battle mode pikemen will cut any heavily armoured knights to shreds in a battle. So why not have both in the late era? the AI only understands stats. It would not recruit these new late era units. Instead it would just buy the most expensive units with the highest upkeep that were actually no longer useful on the battlefield. I tested my mod in the late era extensively and balanced it so that the AI did infact recruit pike and shot armies. This transition and change of AI armies in the late era was never achieved in any other mod that I know of.

People who often understand nothing about this mod (not referring to you) rubbish KGCM and call the unit recruitment in this mod terrible. The concept was very good, to force a change in warfare late on. Soul Firez also appreciated this and used this recruitment model in HHB. However I now realise that many people cannot come to terms with such a model. And it would probably be fair to say that lots of people prefer units not to be cut in this manner. I have therefore reverted back to more normal recruitment in my new patch KGCM 4.3. I listen to all the feedback, I understand that many did not like the "late era recruitment system" as I called it. Anyway I just wanted to explain to you why some of these units were no longer recruitable after gunpowder. The new patch is only a month or so away from release and I really look forward to getting the new changes out to you all.

Dave

[Cope]

Yeah, I need to get it up to 8000 it just seems like Im having real difficulty in getting that population for some reason, never had trouble with it ever before.

[Stylix]

@Leving

It will not take 150 turns or more. You are forgetting that the growth is compounded, like interest on your money in the bank. First turn growth (2500 + 1%), Second turn growth (2525 + 1%) and so on. Also check your settlement details and see what is causing the lack of growth. You can decrease the distance from capital penalty by making this castle the capital unitl a good population base is established. You may also want to try placing a spy or two in this settlement and see if that makes a difference.

[Cope]

@ Stylix and Ermanes
Mathematically, at 1% compound growth a castle with 2500 people would take 117 turns to reach 8000 people, at which point it can be upgraded. By the time you have actually upgraded it and built the basic things in it, about 130-150 turns have passed. The main factor that stops the population growing is sqaulor which cannot be addressed in castles since there are no buildings that deal with it.

Re-reading my post would highlight a host of other major issues that cannot be addressed simply by putting spies in the castle - the plague for one.

Im just really suprised that I'm the only person to have noticed this...because I'm telling you that on my game its a problem - and I've never experienced it on vanilla, and I think its an issue with HHM not stock KGCM v.4.2

Thanks for replying as always.

[ErmanesTheSecond]

@Leving
Have you tried using the add_population cheat? If you add it up so that a city has say 25000, and you still dont get any new wall upgrades or for that matter new building after you upgrade the wall, then theres something wrong as hell with your mod.If in fact you do this and everything turns out peachy then it must be somehthing with the way the game is designed, because i always use the add_population cheat so i dont have to worry about squalor or build times, heh.'
Im currently playing Eras total war, which is in fact way EPIC!!!Im a little annoyed with the fact that though its 12 mods in 1, you can only have one huge city per faction.

[Cope]

Yeah I did resort to using the add_population cheat - its just dumb having to cheat. Its also dumb because the AI wont get fortresses either...so they dont get decent units unless they merc them or use city troops. They are all using feudal knights in the 15th century.

[ErmanesTheSecond]

LOLOLOL!
So its not you it just the mod has a glitch in it, hmm im pretty sure theres a way to change how much % the population increases per level of farm you build, i just dont know where it is in that blasted export_desr buildings file, if i did i'd tell you what tro change so you can get over this glitch leving.

I did some exploring and found out something, and this is werid so bear with me here.
1. i began a campaign as Ireland and there castles all had 3% population growth from the start. Two there is no population increase bonus attached to farms! 3. theres is no line in the export descr_buildings txt that allows you to modify population growth anywhere!
4. Theres a glitch but only in your mod Leving, a bad download or install perhaps, because my mods fine on this account.
Which version are you playing? 3.0 or 4.2? also did you remember to unpack all camapigns for kingdoms?
Wait, are you only using HHB mod? Because im pretty sure you need KCGM 4.2 on top of HHB in order for it to work properly, if its not any of the above, then it must be the HHB mod itself has this design flaw/glitch. Because i never get the weird population growth you get in KCGM 4.2.

[2Shy]

For high level units you must wait long a build almost all buildings.

[Stylix]

@Leving

Here is a guide, written for another M2TW mod, but will apply here as well. This should help you increase the growth rate for castles.
A short guide to greatness for your King, governors and generals

[Cope]

Thanks for all your help Stylix I really appreciate it.

New Questions;

a) how do I uninstall Heroes and Hordes without uninstalling KGCM
b) for KGCM would it be possible to install Agarts start models with KGCM, since I know that 4.2 isnt using them bu HHM is.

[Stylix]

a) how do I uninstall Heroes and Hordes without uninstalling KGCM

Unless you followed this procedure then you cannot. If you uninstall HHB, you uninstall KGCM and will have to reinstall.

b) for KGCM would it be possible to install Agarts start models with KGCM, since I know that 4.2 isnt using them bu HHM is.

Not sure, but I would guess that they are compatible. They are included in HHB, which is based on KGCM so I don't see why they would not work. You may want to make a backup of the modified files and then install and see if it works.