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    Default Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    Following the report into child abuse in the diocese of Cloyne, the Irish Prime Minister, Enda Kenny, has today launched an unprecedented (for Ireland at least) attack on the behaviour of the Vatican. The calls to expel the Papal Nuncio and sever all diplomatic ties with the Vatican have become much louder of late and it remains to be seen how this will pan out.

    Statement by the Taoiseach on the Dáil Motion on the report of the Commission of Investigation into the Catholic Diocese of Cloyne, in Dáil Éireann

    The revelations of the Cloyne report have brought the Government, Irish Catholics and the Vatican to an unprecedented juncture.

    It's fair to say that after the Ryan and Murphy Reports Ireland is, perhaps, unshockable when it comes to the abuse of children.

    But Cloyne has proved to be of a different order.

    Because for the first time in Ireland, a report into child sexual-abuse exposes an attempt by the Holy See, to frustrate an Inquiry in a sovereign, democratic republic.as little as three years ago, not three decades ago.

    And in doing so, the Cloyne Report excavates the dysfunction, disconnection, elitism....the narcissism that dominate the culture of the Vatican to this day.
    The rape and torture of children were downplayed or 'managed' to uphold instead, the primacy of the institution, its power, standing and 'reputation'.

    Far from listening to evidence of humiliation and betrayal with St Benedict's 'ear of the heart'......the Vatican's reaction was to parse and analyse it with the gimlet eye of a canon lawyer.

    This calculated, withering position being the polar opposite of the radicalism, humility and compassion upon which the Roman Church was founded.
    The radicalism, humility and compassion which are the very essence of its foundation and purpose.

    The behaviour being a case of Roma locuta est: causa finita est.
    Except in this instance, nothing could be further from the truth.

    Victims

    Cloyne's revelations are heart-breaking. It describes how many victims continued to live in the small towns and parishes in which they were reared and in which they were abused. their abuser often still in the area and still held in high regard by their families and the community.

    The abusers continued to officiate at family weddings and funerals. In one case, the abuser even officiated at the victim's own wedding.

    There is little I or anyone else in this House can say to comfort that victim or others, however much we want to. But we can and do recognise the bravery of all of the victims who told their stories to the Commission.

    While it will take a long time for Cloyne to recover from the horrors uncovered, it could take the victims and their families a lifetime to pick up the pieces of their shattered existence.

    Papal Nuncio

    A day post-publication, the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade met with the Papal Nuncio to Ireland, Archbishop Giuseppe Leanza.
    The Tánaiste left the Archbishop clear on two things: The gravity of the actions and attitude of the Holy See.

    And Ireland's complete rejection and abhorrence of same.

    The Papal Nuncio undertook to present the Cloyne Report to the Vatican. The Government awaits the considered response of the Holy See.

    I believe that the Irish people, including the very many faithful Catholics who - like me - have been shocked and dismayed by the repeated failings of Church authorities to face up to what is required, deserve and require confirmation from the Vatican that they do accept, endorse and require compliance by all Church authorities here with, the obligations to report all cases of suspected abuse, whether current or historical, to the State's authorities in line with the Children First National Guidance which will have the force of law.

    Clericalism

    Clericalism has rendered some of Ireland's brightest, most privileged and powerful men, either unwilling or unable to address the horrors cited in the Ryan and Murphy Reports.

    This Roman Clericalism must be devastating for good priests.... some of them old... others struggling to keep their humanity....even their sanity........as they work so hard.....to be the keepers of the Church's light and goodness within their parishes...... communities... the human heart.

    Church & State

    But thankfully for them, and for us, this is not Rome.
    Nor is it industrial-school or Magdalene Ireland, where the swish of a soutane smothered conscience and humanity and the swing of a thurible ruled the Irish-Catholic world.

    This is the 'Republic' of Ireland 2011.

    A Republic of laws.....of rights and responsibilities....of proper civic order..... where the delinquency and arrogance of a particular version..... of a particular kind of 'morality'..... will no longer be tolerated or ignored.

    As a practising Catholic, I don't say any of this easily. Growing up, many of us in here learned we were part of a pilgrim Church.

    Today, that Church needs to be a penitent Church. A church, truly and deeply penitent for the horrors it perpetrated, hid and denied.

    In the name of God. But for the good of the institution.

    When I say that through our legislation, through our Government's action to put Children First., those who have been abused can take some small comfort in knowing that they belong to a nation, to a democracy where humanity, power, rights, responsibility are enshrined and enacted, always....always.... for their good.

    Where the law - their law - as citizens of this country, will always supercede canon laws that have neither legitimacy nor place in the affairs of this country.

    State/Society

    This report tells us a tale of a frankly brazen disregard for protecting children. If we do not respond swiftly and appropriately as a State, we will have to prepare ourselves for more reports like this.

    I agree with Archbishop Martin that the Church needs to publish any other and all other reports like this as soon as possible.

    I must note the Commission is very positive about the work of the National Board for Safeguarding Children, established by the Church to oversee the operation by Dioceses and religious orders. The Commission notes that all Church authorities were required to sign a contract with the National Board agreeing to implement the relevant standards and that those refusing to sign would be named in the Board's Annual Report. Progress has been in no small measure to the commitment of Ian Elliott and others.

    There is some small comfort to be drawn by the people of Cloyne from the fact that the Commission is complimentary of the efforts made by the Diocese since 2008, in training, in vetting personnel and in the risk management of Priests against whom allegations have been made.

    Nevertheless, the behaviour of Bishop Magee and Monsignor O'Callaghan show how fragile even good standards and policies are to the weakness and wilful disregard of those who fail to give the right priority to safeguarding our children.

    But if the Vatican needs to get its house in order, so does this State.

    The Report of the Commission is rightly critical of the entirely unsatisfactory position which the last Government allowed to persist over many years.

    The unseemly bickering between the Minister for Children and the HSE over the statutory powers to deal with extra-familial abuse, the failure to produce legislation to enable the exchange of soft information as promised after the Ferns Enquiry, and the long period of confusion and disjointed responsibility for child protection within the HSE, as reported by the Commission, are simply not acceptable in a society which values children and their safety.

    For too long Ireland has neglected its children.

    Just last week we saw a case of the torture of children, within the family, come before the courts. Just two days ago, we were repulsed by the case of a Donegal registered sex offender and school caretaker.

    Children and young adults reduced to human wreckage, raising questions and issues of serious import for State agencies.

    We are set to embark on a course of action to ensure the State is doing all it can to safeguard our children.

    Minister Shatter is bringing forward two pieces of legislation - firstly, to make it an offence to withhold information relating to crimes against children and vulnerable adults; and secondly, at long last, to allow for the exchange of 'soft information' on abusers.

    As Taoiseach, I want to do all I can to protect the sacred space of childhood and to restore its innocence.

    Especially our young teenagers, whom I believe to be children. Because regardless of our current economic crisis, the children of this country are, and always will be, our most precious possession of all.

    Safeguarding their integrity and innocence must be a national priority. This is why I undertook to create a Cabinet ministry for Children and Youth Affairs.
    The legislation 'Children First' proposes to give our children maximum protection and security without intruding on the hectic, magical business of being a child.

    Conclusion

    Cardinal Josef Ratzinger said: 'Standards of conduct appropriate to civil society or the workings of a democracy cannot be purely and simply applied to the Church.'

    As the Holy See prepares its considered response to the Cloyne Report, as Taoiseach, I am making it absolutely clear, that when it comes to the protection of the children of this State, the standards of conduct which the Church deems appropriate to itself, cannot and will not, be applied to the workings of democracy and civil society in this republic.
    Not purely, or simply or otherwise.

    CHILDREN.... FIRST.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0720/cloyne1.html

  2. #2

    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    I have to commend the Taoiseach for his combination of courage and clarity.

  3. #3
    Dubh the dark's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    It was a good statement.

    The Vatican have tried to disrupt investigations into abuse in Ireland recently.

    It's clear the Irish government won't accept any attempt to interfere with the progress of the law.
    Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever.
    Noam Chomsky

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    Trey's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    Cardinal Josef Ratzinger said: 'Standards of conduct appropriate to civil society or the workings of a democracy cannot be purely and simply applied to the Church.'
    Now that's just rich. I'm interested in hearing how this proceeds. A powerful statement.
    for-profit death machine.

  5. #5
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    So War then...

  6. #6

    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    So War then...
    A crusade will be called and this PM can give his last blasphemic words in a boiling pot.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    Quote Originally Posted by Gattsu View Post
    A crusade will be called and this PM can give his last blasphemic words in a boiling pot.
    to arms!!!
    "we're way way pre-alpha and what that means is there is loads of features not just in terms of the graphics but also in terms of the combat and animations that actually aren't in the game yet.So the final game is actually gonna look way way better than this!” - James Russell, CA
    Just like the elephant animation, this Carthage scenario is actually in the game, it just has a small percantage factor for showing up, that's all...

    Beware of scoundrels



  8. #8
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    I forsee an Excommunication of Ireland.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  9. #9

    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    Irish faction - You have been excommunicated.
    End Turn
    United Kingdoms declares war.


  10. #10

    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    It would actually be an interesting turn of events if Ireland went Protestant...
    Heir to Noble Savage in the Imperial House of Wilpuri

  11. #11
    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    It would actually be an interesting turn of events if Ireland went Protestant...
    two catholic priests at lunch..

    hey did you hear? the pope will remove the celibacy!
    i am 80 years old that doesnt matter to me anymore.
    me neither but it will to our children!

    -------------

    no but seriously, protestants dine on choir boys bum too - statistics show that. they are just lacking a good excuse, thats the only difference.
    Last edited by Ahlerich; July 21, 2011 at 08:31 AM.

  12. #12
    Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    Even though im now a agnostic atheist and ex catholic I had to get my son baptised in order to get him into a school as they insist you do so.And there is no other school around thats not catholic inspired..The catholic church should not be allowed to run any schools where they brainwash kids into this cult religion.I remember a priest telling me in school when i was 7 that we would all burn in hell if we did not go to mass on a sunday as its a mortal sin..My cousin had to do cartholic religion as a subject in a exam for her intercert this summer.WTF..All the land of these bastards should be taken and they should be made pay all the money to there victems.At present the government with my taxes pays a large part.Take all the churches and land off there cult and pay off the IMF..


    The IMF is our new ruler and god all hail the imf we shall concor europe

  13. #13
    Dubh the dark's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    Lol, just to rub salt in the wounds, here's a senator of Fine Gael (government party);

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Fine Gael Senator Martin Conway has called on the entire hierarchy of the Catholic Church to resign, following the revelations of the Cloyne Report into child sex abuse.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0721/cloyne.html
    Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever.
    Noam Chomsky

  14. #14
    Logios's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    Quote Originally Posted by tom cruise View Post
    Even though im now a agnostic atheist and ex catholic I had to get my son baptised in order to get him into a school as they insist you do so.And there is no other school around thats not catholic inspired..The catholic church should not be allowed to run any schools where they brainwash kids into this cult religion.I remember a priest telling me in school when i was 7 that we would all burn in hell if we did not go to mass on a sunday as its a mortal sin..My cousin had to do cartholic religion as a subject in a exam for her intercert this summer.WTF..All the land of these bastards should be taken and they should be made pay all the money to there victems.At present the government with my taxes pays a large part.Take all the churches and land off there cult and pay off the IMF..


    The IMF is our new ruler and god all hail the imf we shall concor europe
    I guess I don't know how things work in Ireland, but could you not just demand that education was provided for your son, baptism or not, especially if those schools receive public grants?
    I may just be too comfortable with the Scandinavian model of society to see things any other way. We do have a somewhat similar struggle with church authorities in Denmark though since the Peoples Church, only because of tradition, has the job of handling registration of all childbirths no matter what the religious views of the parents may be.
    Good luck (of the Irish) in the struggle ahead and keep the avatars and signatures coming

  15. #15

    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    Quote Originally Posted by Logios View Post
    I guess I don't know how things work in Ireland, but could you not just demand that education was provided for your son, baptism or not, especially if those schools receive public grants?
    I may just be too comfortable with the Scandinavian model of society to see things any other way. We do have a somewhat similar struggle with church authorities in Denmark though since the Peoples Church, only because of tradition, has the job of handling registration of all childbirths no matter what the religious views of the parents may be.
    Good luck (of the Irish) in the struggle ahead and keep the avatars and signatures coming
    There are non-catholic schools near everyone. I graduated from one at the end of the summer.
    Last edited by DimeBagHo; July 26, 2011 at 04:01 AM. Reason: Off-topic (personal)

  16. #16

    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    Good to hear.

    Send the Bishop of Rome's organisation back to where it belongs - Rome.

  17. #17
    Dubh the dark's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    Things are heating up it seems;

    The Children's Minister has demanded that the Vatican should respond to the Cloyne Report on child clerical abuse within weeks.

    Frances Fitzgerald said it would not be acceptable if the Vatican delayed in addressing the Government's concerns about child safety in the Catholic Church and Co Cork diocese.
    The minister spoke out after the head of the Vatican press office said the Holy See will "respond in good time".

    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/minister-de...105327461.html

    It is still not known if some of the Catholic congregations which ran children's residential institutions condemned in the Ryan Report will boycott a meeting with Minister for Education Ruairi Quinn this afternoon.

    Minister Quinn said offers by the religious orders to pay a greater share of the reparations to abused former residents fall several hundred million euro short of matching the taxpayers' contribution.
    Earlier this month, Mr Quinn wrote to the 18 religious congregations concerned following up on the last government's call for them to meet half of the €1.3bn bill for victims of residential institutional child abuse.

    Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin (head of the opposition) has said that the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Eamon Gilmore, should demand the attendance in Ireland of the Vatican Secretary of State.
    The call is to get answers to questions as regards the management of child abuse cases involving Catholic Church priests and clerics.

    Speaking on Raidió na Gaeltachta, Mr Martin also said that the Vatican should apologise to this country for the church's mismanagement of clerical abuse cases.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0722/abuse.html
    Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever.
    Noam Chomsky

  18. #18
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    About time someone called this criminal organisation to account.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    Any updates on this? Personally I would love for Ireland to finally begin pulling away from Catholic indoctrination. It'd certainly help with the NI issue somewhat.
    Heir to Noble Savage in the Imperial House of Wilpuri

  20. #20
    Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Irish Prime Minister Attacks Vatican and Waits For Response

    The north is not about religion its about who owns the countys up there.The catholic church does not have the same power it had b4.My grandparents used to worship priests and bishops and the pope.And there generation all did.Now if you look at 18-30yr olds they dont give a about them.My grandad once met a bishop and got to kiss his ring.The ring on his finger ha ha.And he thought it was a great honor to meet the bishop?Now we know that the bishops covered up kids being abused sexually.The lowest crime is child abuse and these perverts think they can stand up on a alter on a sunday and talk down to us...The bloody cheek.I would like to balance up my post by saying that there are some nuns and priests that do great work in the communities and viset the old and sick and give them comfort.I just feel sorry for them as they in my view have given there lives to a god that may or may not exist.And imagine if your a priest and you find out the order you have served all ur life is corrupt and immoral and covers up pedophiles??

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