are attitudes towards religion and homosexuality correlated?

[mischief]

i am curious. in the public debate, i see a largely secular selection of speakers who are in favour of greater tolerance/acceptance of homosexuality, versus various groups of those opposed to the same which frequently seem to be religiously inspired.

I am interested as to the correlation of attitudes.

This poll isn't meant to be about whether you believe your attitudes to be influenced by your religious position, but simply what position you hold on homosexuality and whether you are religious.

[Zenith Darksea]

As it happens, I'm a Christian who is pro-homosexual rights. While the theology on the subject is murky (though you have to agree that the arguments against it are few and shaky), I firmly believe that religion has no place in the general government of society, and that a homosexual should have equal rights with a heterosexual. Whatever a religious person feels about homosexuality, they should keep it to themselves and their own community - a person should not be punished by society unless they have committed a crime against society, and homosexuality is not a crime against society. Like I say, I am a Christian (and a Greek Orthodox one at that!), but I'm just as ready to associate with those of the homosexual position as I am with those of the heterosexual persuasion. If someone holds different opinions to me on what is a rather personal matter, then I have no problem with that. I strongly disapprove of the Catholic (and Orthodox, to a lesser extent) policy of trying to interfere in government policy. After all, society exists to serve everyone, not just us Christians (and it should be made clear that many Christians believe homosexual relationships to be perfectly acceptable in God's eyes).

[mischief]

thank you all for your responses so far...

i've posted this same survey on other forums, and the results are remarkably consistent.
Thanks, Zenith for your thoughtful response. I'd like to hear more views, if anyone has them?

[Imperator of Rome]

Iam christian also and I have a positive view on homosexuals. It is wrong to judge a fellow human just because of what they like and I think they should have the same rights as us.Only when other christians stop harassing and fearing homosexuals will we have respect for each other. Christianity teaches we should respect and help each other regardless of how much we dislike something about that person and that god is the judge ,not us.

[Darth Wong]

It should be noted that if you narrowed the "religious" category to born-again Christians, aka "fundamentalists", you'd get a much stronger correlation. In my experience, I have never met a born-again Christian who did not have extremely harsh views toward homosexuals and gay marriage.

[mischief]

It should be noted that if you narrowed the "religious" category to born-again Christians, aka "fundamentalists", you'd get a much stronger correlation. In my experience, I have never met a born-again Christian who did not have extremely harsh views toward homosexuals and gay marriage.

i have. Once. His church pray for him regularly because they believe he is corrupted. But that is one out of hundreds, sadly.

[Pallida Mors]

It should be noted that if you narrowed the "religious" category to born-again Christians, aka "fundamentalists", you'd get a much stronger correlation. In my experience, I have never met a born-again Christian who did not have extremely harsh views toward homosexuals and gay marriage.

You just met one. Hello, my name is Eric. I hang out with some people who are gay. I'm very hetrosexual but am not offended in the least by their sexual preference. Although I'm very aware of how the bible condems it, but its a mistake for me being a human to incorporate that into my belief set about actual people who are gay. If you ask me what I think, that being said, I judge people on what kind of person you are to me, not what our beliefs dictate that we think about another. I may not chose to do that, but that doesnt mean I dont like that person. I think the 10 or so gay men I know and occasionally the wife and I go out drinking with are all right.

"Why would God put woman on the Earth if man was just going to go with other men? Its as simple as this: a woman and a man are biologicaly meant to be together. Even if your not religious you can't deny that fact."

Its unfortunate that you limit yourself to this view. Do you think anyone is ever going to give your thoughts on God and life a chance in Hades with a hard nose approach to the bible like that? According to the bible its a sin, but I sin all the time, so do you and nobodys dropping the bible on my doorstep, yet. But its easy to point at everyone elses sin and throw bibles at their doors. I have a question? According to the bible, does it state that there are levels of sin? Or that any sin is enough to keep you form God? Does this mean that sin is sin? And if so, how come the heavy 'hatred' for homosexuals, and not someone who has lied, or thought about women in a sexual way? Are the dogs that are gay going to doggy hell? Or the Dolphins? You are right that it isn't natural as far as procreation is concerned but yet this happens with regular frequency in the wild.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Not religious and positive attitude.
They are people just like me only with a different "taste" then me and well you can't do anything about that.
That's just the way it is.

[Zenith Darksea]

It's an interesting thing actually - Christians of the older traditions such as Orthodoxy, Catholicism and so on tend to be rather more easy going (in my experience) than born-again evangelists and so on.

[roman_crusader]

born again christians always want u to join them. that's their problem. they don't understand why some people don't like their supposed future paradise..... (because i don't think paradise=ur ideas on why i can't get there)

whereas catholics, and the more 'mature' religions are all very passive and, shall we say, less 'aggressive' in their 'advertising'.

[Kino]

Deleted by user.

[Zenith Darksea]

The Christian Union at my university keeps asking me to join with them, but I simply couldn't bring myself to do it. They seem to be 100% 'born again' Christians, and can't help trying to prove to me that the holy icons are in some way idolatrous. I don't think that British reborns are quite as, well, odd, as American ones, but their problem is that they can't stop pestering people. The Christian Union at my University was accused (although nobody has been able to prove it, I should point out) of leaving stacks of Bibles on the doorsteps of the houses of people known to be homosexuals. I think it's a shame that they're so forthright (and not just on the issue of homosexuality) - not only do they irritate people who don't want to listen (and hey, it's their choice), but they go and spread their stilted, misleading view of Christianity so that people assume that we're all like that.

[mischief]

yeah. agreed.

The American extremism isn't nearly as widespread in the UK, except in some of the black communities that are much more evangleically inclined. But yeah, the University socieities that i saw were all very much of that ilk.

[Justinian]

Very mildly religious, don't care at all about other people's tastes. It's hardly my business.

[Removed_user_012521]

Why would God put woman on the Earth if man was just going to go with other men? Its as simple as this: a woman and a man are biologicaly meant to be together. Even if your not religious you can't deny that fact.

[Yorkshireman]

Why would God put woman on the Earth if man was just going to go with other men? Its as simple as this: a woman and a man are biologicaly meant to be together. Even if your not religious you can't deny that fact.

But why should it bother you. Fact is there have always been homosexuals and there always will be. I look at it as each to their own, it does'nt infringe on my way of life at all so why get upset about it.

[Removed_user_012521]

Its unfortunate that you limit yourself to this view. Do you think anyone is ever going to give your thoughts on God and life a chance in Hades with a hard nose approach to the bible like that? According to the bible its a sin, but I sin all the time, so do you and nobodys dropping the bible on my doorstep, yet. But its easy to point at everyone elses sin and throw bibles at their doors. I have a question? According to the bible, does it state that there are levels of sin? Or that any sin is enough to keep you form God? Does this mean that sin is sin? And if so, how come the heavy 'hatred' for homosexuals, and not someone who has lied, or thought about women in a sexual way? Are the dogs that are gay going to doggy hell? Or the Dolphins? You are right that it isn't natural as far as procreation is concerned but yet this happens with regular frequency in the wild.

WTF are you talking about? First of all I didn't get the idea from the bible I got it from something called Logic. Even if you do not believe in God you can not deny the fact that the genetailia is for reliving wast and reproducing which you can not do with a member of the same sex.
Your views on Sinning are also warped:

According to the bible its a sin, but I sin all the time, so do you and nobodys dropping the bible on my doorstep, yet. But its easy to point at everyone elses sin and throw bibles at their doors.

This view is positivly warped. Just cause you sin and get away with it means its ok? Jesus gave us a infinite chances to be forgiven, the only prerequisite is that we have to be sorry for our sins. Obviously you seem to look at this differently. And BTW I wasn't throwing the bible at anyone.

I have a question? According to the bible, does it state that there are levels of sin? Or that any sin is enough to keep you form God? Does this mean that sin is sin? And if so, how come the heavy 'hatred' for homosexuals, and not someone who has lied, or thought about women in a sexual way?

Yes there are levels of sin: Venial, Social, and Mortal sins. Mortal sins are the worst and if you do not repent you will go to hell. Some mortal sins inlude lieing in a very serious way (not just a white lie but a real lie that can get someone in trouble), Murdure, Adultery, things of that nature.

The thing about sinning and how we view it is that if you sin and your giulty its not so bad and if you repent is my view and Gods view it never happend. This is not the case with Homosexuals cause they never repent and continue what they do. This would be the equvalent in the Mortal Sinning world as a Murdurer who keeps on killing or a rapist who keeps on raping.

You pointed out that thinking about women in a sexual way is a sin or a sin of the same calibre as homosexuality and I have to disagree. First of all women are naturlay appealing to men so there really is no way around it. Second of all the sin is not in just glancing at a women and thinking of sex but in commiting adultury if you happen to be married.

[Pallida Mors]

WTF are you talking about? First of all I didn't get the idea from the bible I got it from something called Logic. Even if you do not believe in God you can not deny the fact that the genetailia is for reliving wast and reproducing which you can not do with a member of the same sex.
Your views on Sinning are also warped:




This view is positivly warped. Just cause you sin and get away with it means its ok? Jesus gave us a infinite chances to be forgiven, the only prerequisite is that we have to be sorry for our sins. Obviously you seem to look at this differently. And BTW I wasn't throwing the bible at anyone.





Yes there are levels of sin: Venial, Social, and Mortal sins. Mortal sins are the worst and if you do not repent you will go to hell. Some mortal sins inlude lieing in a very serious way (not just a white lie but a real lie that can get someone in trouble), Murdure, Adultery, things of that nature.

The thing about sinning and how we view it is that if you sin and your giulty its not so bad and if you repent is my view and Gods view it never happend. This is not the case with Homosexuals cause they never repent and continue what they do. This would be the equvalent in the Mortal Sinning world as a Murdurer who keeps on killing or a rapist who keeps on raping.

You pointed out that thinking about women in a sexual way is a sin or a sin of the same calibre as homosexuality and I have to disagree. First of all women are naturlay appealing to men so there really is no way around it. Second of all the sin is not in just glancing at a women and thinking of sex but in commiting adultury if you happen to be married.

Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."
Romans 6:23 says, “For the wages of sin death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
. "When we look at 1 John 1:9 it says, “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleans us from all unrighteousness.” When we lie (even little white ones) cheat, steal, use God’s name in vain, commit adultery, fornication, use harmful drugs, alcohol, murder, pornography etc., you get the picture I’m sure. These are not simply mistakes or coincidences. They are sins against God who loves us more than we will ever really know upon this earth." And I didnt even write that. I must be very warped to think that when the bible says things like Romans 3:23 only mean if it applies to the various levels of sin. I will concede one thing to you, I guess there are different levels of sin, however I was looking at sin as a whole. Sorry if I took out the whole christian communities persecution of homosexuals seemingly at you. And if an individual is going to use parts of the bible to condem homosexuals, then they need to come to grips with the other parts that state were all sinners. You, me and everyone else. According the same verse.
I got off on a tangent because of the statment, probably shouldn't have qouted your whole statement. However, I'm not conceding that the argument is flawed, you can call me warped all you want, but I was using above said set of verses to portray that what you consider natural, Jesus said is commiting adultery he didnt add "only if your married". On a earthly level I would agree that lusting after someone and raping them are two different things. Personally I think they should castrate that person. But Jesus makes it clear that the spiritual ramifications are the same. With out repentance that is. I'm also not claiming that Jesus' claim as a believer doesnt hold true. The bible doesnt claim that Hell is just for people like Hitler, it claims that its for anyone whose name isnt in the lambs book of life. And that Jesus is 'our' advocate. Evan, what about verses like Mathew chapter 7 1-5

"1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in someone else's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from the other person's eye. "

You sound like the Pharisee's Jesus couldnt stand. I guess we'll just have to disagree and you can keep on judging. Instead of calling me warped, how about you research yourthoughts and come up with verses that state how much God looks at the level of sin. And other classics like "the wages of some sin is death. Well, it depends on the level." Thats made up, just like your bible references. You got one thing right in that whole deal, Jesus was asked how many time one should be forgiven. He responded 70 * 7, which I've been told in those days meant slang for infinite.

BTW- I cited the animal references to point out that those creatures 'that God made', didnt commit sin in the Garden, but are still Gay. Did God make those animals like that. Or are you arrogant enough to claim that when Adam and Eve fell, sin then entered the world. and the animals too. (Thats me FYI) And logically if animals are sinning when they do that, then why cant you conclude that they can make conscious decisions. ***t, while we're at it why dont we add souls then too. And if they have souls then eating animals is sinning. We've all commited murder then. Except the vegans I know where your getting the levels of sin. From the OT. But, when Jesus came He made the utter distiction between the new covenant and the old. He said the only way to God was through Him. Do you understand why I think 'spiritually' that it makes little point to persecute someone from one sin over another. I get your comments, I was thinking of it from Gods perspective.

(I now see that this is a differnce between Catholicism and various Protestant beliefs). That is different levels of sin, and how they apply spirtiually. To each their own to quote the Yorkshireman.

[allthesedamnnamesaretaken]

i think most men find homosexuality somewhat disturbing. it's just that the religious ones are more vocal and obnoxious about it. homosexuality is also an evolutionary dead end. it serves no biological purpose that i can see. it seems like a defect of some sort to me. either behavioral, or genetic
edit: lots of typos

[Halie Satanus]

i think most men find homosexuality somewhat disturbing. it's just that the religious ones are more vocal and obnoxious about it. homosexuality is also an evolutionary dead end. it serves no biological purpose that i can see. it seems like a defect of some sort to me. either behavioral, or genetic
edit: lots of typos

:laughing: :laughing:
gays are gays just like horses are horses and trees are trees,there's no defect it's just what they are,i've know loads of gays and lesbians and never found them to be an evoloutionary dead end in fact.......

nuts i can't be bothered,stupied is as stupied is(if that's flaming then delete)

i agree with the yorkshireman although coming from lancs it grieves me so