A New Patch ???

[Gato The Great]

I personally feel that this mod isnt yet complety finished and i would like to give suggestions why this mod needs another pacth

1. theres 29 factions and theres 31 faction slots if this is a knigdom grand campiang aleast add all european factions ( Novgorod )into the campaing

2. add two more mesoamerican factions max out on the faction slots please.

3. new units like dismounted knight of santiago, templars, Norse war clerics Etc.

4. resources are out of whack and there just bugging me, some on roads, under mines.

5. i would like a more balanced campiang like englnad never wims either wales or Ireland always take over alos i like factions to not be bankrupt all the time since in real life these kingdoms where awfully rich.

6. few bugs i have encounterd

7. new laoding screens is it just me or i only see aboout 4 diffrent ones

[ChivalrousKiller]

I would certainly agree with you, but I think Dave has completed this mod

As for 3., all units from the Grand Unit Addon Mod could be added

[Stylix]

I would certainly agree with you, but I think Dave has completed this mod

Please see this post:
New Patch?

[Dave Scarface]

1. Novgorod already added to KGCM patch 4.3.

2. No, not interested in adding anymore Americas factions whatsoever. Infact I have considered the opposite, getting rid of the Aztecs.

3. New fancy units is just your own personal preference, the factions were fine in vanilla and Kingdoms as they are also in KGCM. What can be improved though is unit recruitment, which I've already done.

4. I disagree, region incomes are exactly where I want them to be in this mod. If you prefer ridiculous amounts of trade income like in vanilla then feel free to mod. As for the placement of resourses this is a non issue. And I'm not going to waste my time moving many resourses on the map just so they look a bit better. There are much more important things for me to work on.

5. The Grand Campaign is already extremely well balanced and not really in need of any improvement. Almost every faction in this mod is fun to play and doesn't suffer from this problem. What you are infact asking me for is an unbalanced campaign where certain factions that did well historically (like England) win the campaign. So you want a faction outnumbered by lots of enemies possibly to always win. The England campaign in KGCM is one of the best. What you have to understand is you can't always make each faction fun to play and at the same time make the AI perform well with certain factions. If it aint broke then it don't need fixing.

6. Please explain? what bugs are you talking about exactly? I need details.

7. All I want in this mod is vanilla graphics, however there would be no harm in a new splash screen for KGCM.

Dave

[Messremb]

1. Novgorod already added to KGCM patch 4.3.

2. No, not interested in adding anymore Americas factions whatsoever. Infact I have considered the opposite, getting rid of the Aztecs.

3. New fancy units is just your own personal preference, the factions were fine in vanilla and Kingdoms as they are also in KGCM. What can be improved though is unit recruitment, which I've already done.

4. I disagree, region incomes are exactly where I want them to be in this mod. If you prefer ridiculous amounts of trade income like in vanilla then feel free to mod. As for the placement of resourses this is a non issue. And I'm not going to waste my time moving many resourses on the map just so they look a bit better. There are much more important things for me to work on.

5. The Grand Campaign is already extremely well balanced and not really in need of any improvement. Almost every faction in this mod is fun to play and doesn't suffer from this problem. What you are infact asking me for is an unbalanced campaign where certain factions that did well historically (like England) win the campaign. So you want a faction outnumbered by lots of enemies possibly to always win. The England campaign in KGCM is one of the best. What you have to understand is you can't always make each faction fun to play and at the same time make the AI perform well with certain factions. If it aint broke then it don't need fixing.

6. Please explain? what bugs are you talking about exactly? I need details.

7. All I want in this mod is vanilla graphics, however there would be no harm in a new splash screen for KGCM.

Dave

Well.... if the map is fine, factions are good and Ai works well, what's the point of the discussion?

Personally I found the map second rate (in regard to finishing- regional borders, some pointless settlements, resources thrown in a pile around the cities); the rosters, tech trees and stats a mess and the AI rather linear.
The HHB is an improvement, quite significant but still spotty.

If in your view those things are fine, what's left for a new patch?
Hell, I could upload the unit and building files I tweaked for myself (that was some work!) and call it a day! It's a major redone, works fine, and even feels better- we'll call it 4.5 with 'FINAL' stapled to it to shut up the mumblers and be done.

[Dave Scarface]

Well.... if the map is fine, factions are good and Ai works well, what's the point of the discussion?

Personally I found the map second rate (in regard to finishing- regional borders, some pointless settlements, resources thrown in a pile around the cities); the rosters, tech trees and stats a mess and the AI rather linear.

Well if all you can do is rubbish it, why are you playing KGCM? and more importantly why are you here? Over the last few years I haven't seen many complain in this forum that the map is second rate and the regions poorly done. This is all according to your own high opinion.

If in your view those things are fine, what's left for a new patch?
Hell, I could upload the unit and building files I tweaked for myself (that was some work!) and call it a day! It's a major redone, works fine, and even feels better- we'll call it 4.5 with 'FINAL' stapled to it to shut up the mumblers and be done.

I thought things in the mod could be improved and I have done that. You dont even know whats in the patch yet you run your mouth saying that you could do a better job. Well fine, lets see you make your own mod from scratch then, and we'll see how good it is. If you can't manage that (waits for excuses) then please troll someplace else.

[Stylix]

Well.... if the map is fine, factions are good and Ai works well, what's the point of the discussion?

Personally I found the map second rate (in regard to finishing- regional borders, some pointless settlements, resources thrown in a pile around the cities); the rosters, tech trees and stats a mess and the AI rather linear.
The HHB is an improvement, quite significant but still spotty.

If in your view those things are fine, what's left for a new patch?

If you are serious than this is perhaps the most short-sighted, narrow-minded posts I have ever read in a forum. Don't you mean to ask, 'why not make the changes that I feel need to be made or don't make any'?
Dave has had a very clear idea from the very start what this mod would be and has followed that plan very well. It sounds like most of your complaints are the result of the designers at the Creative Assembly and not with this mod creator. If you are going to comment, please give specific examples and support your beliefs at least. For example 'pointless settlements', which ones and why do you feel that way; 'AI rather linear', Dave did not create the AI, some of the best modders in the community did and it is at least as good as any available in any mods and probably better balanced than any. The tech trees and rosters are based on the vanilla game, which was on of the goals of this mod; to incorporate most of the existing elements from the Kingdoms expansion into one 'Grand Campaign', not create a new entity. As far as the stats go, they are designed for play balance and playablility, not only for the player faction, but for the AI as well, something that is often overlooked in other mods.

Go ahead and post your sub-mod, which I assume is based on this 'inferior mod' and I am sure that many will completely disagree with your approach and reasons, not to mention play balance and playability, since it is based on your preferences and not on the original game as was Dave's concept.

Any mod can be improved, in increments, and this is what I believe Dave intends. He has addressed specific requests for changes and his reasons for not incorporating them. Improved gameplay and balance is the ultimate goal, not reinventing the wheel or adding 'eye candy' which does not improve game play.

[Nefarious]

Though both Dave and Stylix have replied more than adequately to the blatant trolling, I would like to make a few comments to, hopefully, help keep things in perspective.
KGCM Mods: If this post in seen in any way to be off base or off topic, please delete it. My goal is always to help, never to hinder.

<snip> resources thrown in a pile around the cities<snip>
<snip>the rosters, tech trees and stats a mess<snip>

1. Resources: There are regions with double-stacked items and some settlements have a resource on the SW corner; right where most exiting units muster.
But so what? Seriously.
You're playing a free mod of an older game and this is your complaint? Really?
Perhaps you can do as I and, undoubtedly, countless others have done. Move the resources in the descr_strat. You already state you've modded some unit and building stats. Resource relocation (x,y) is much less involved. Simple, easy, and more effective than slinging verbiage on a community board.
Community. That word seems to escape some. Then again, many communities have that element of the populace. Such is life, I suppose.

2. Tech trees and stats: I know of very few people who play their downloaded mods as they come. But Dave's unit stat work on KGCM was darn close to dead-on. I made a few tweaks, as did you. As do most. That's called personal preference, not a mess. And the provided starting stats and tech trees are a welcomed and vast improvement (IMO) over both vanilla and kingdoms. Just thinking about the extensive charge distance testing and resulting impacts makes me all warm and fuzzy.

Hell, I could upload the unit and building files I tweaked for myself (that was some work!) and call it a day! It's a major redone, works fine, and even feels better- we'll call it 4.5 with 'FINAL' stapled to it to shut up the mumblers and be done.

1. Uploading your files: Nope, sorry. It's been clearly stated by this mod's creator that your personal tweaks are not welcomed. And to call your tweaks 'some work!' is dilusional, at best. That's like comparing running around your block to running a marathon. You haven't even worked up a mod/patch-making sweat.
This is not to say your tweaks aren't good. They may very well be. But your attitude of cynicism and derision makes any creative work of yours immediately suspect. As stated earlier, we almost all tweak our mods. I personally love mine but know enough to know they aren't worth an upload. Why, you ask? Because they're my personal preferences, not mod-changing improvements for the masses. Knowing the distinction is key.

2. It's a major redone: Doubtful. To be fair it sounds like your personal tweaking of the two most personalized files in all the TW community. And that's OK.
The reason there are so many mods is the reason for so many condiments. The sandwich is the base, the condiment combination makes it your own. In this scenario, I've chosen KGCM/HHB as my sandwich. I then dressed it to my taste.

If you don't like the original flavor of Dave's work, then this sandwich isn't for you. No matter what you add, it'll always taste a little off. Perhaps you should try your condiments on another base...or try and create an original sandwich that you're sure will appease the appetite of all. But you're going to have to start from scratch. I think I saw some vanilla in the cupboard. Maybe you could add a few Kingdoms sprinkles and come up with your own original and highly nutritious meal.

We wait with baited antici...











...pation.

[ChivalrousKiller]

Please see this post:
New Patch?

Ah, thank's for updating me

[Gato The Great]

As for 3., all units from the Grand Unit Addon Mod could be added

is this a mod or a sub mod???

[Stylix]

is this a mod or a sub mod???

A sub-mod for the Retrofit Mod, I believe.
Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit 1.0) Version 6.0

[Gato The Great]

A sub-mod for the Retrofit Mod, I believe.
Grand Unit Addon Mod (for Retrofit 1.0) Version 6.0

will this add all this units into kingdoms grand campiang

[Stylix]

will this add all this units into kingdoms grand campiang

No, this sub-mod was designed for a different mod.

3. New fancy units is just your own personal preference, the factions were fine in vanilla and Kingdoms as they are also in KGCM. What can be improved though is unit recruitment, which I've already done.

[Gato The Great]

great to hear that novgorod will be added i encounter some very weird bug that the enemy army i was facing got stuck on the ground i can only see about thier heads and it said that i won though

[Gato The Great]

4. i meant that A.I factions tresuary should have not always be bankrupt ( recruit and field more armies)

[Dave Scarface]

4. i meant that A.I factions tresuary should have not always be bankrupt ( recruit and field more armies)

This is another thing that not many people realise, the precise way in which KGCM is already setup. I worked hard on improving the AI treasury in previous updates. This has a lot to do with building recruitment. Give buildings too many units to recruit at each tech level and the AI will buy far too many units than it actually needs. So what I did was to cut some weaker units at certain building points. I also reduced the replenishment pool for heavy infantry and cavalry units which cost the most upkeep. The result was that instead of the AI going bankrupt in say 20 turns it was staying above the red for 50 turns or more. Which might not sound like an awful lot but it is a big improvement. I also gave the AI factions a kings purse bonus cheat (which gives them the most on very hard difficulty).

But even with all this you are right that half of the factions in the campaign may get into debt (not all). So you really DONT want the AI to spam more armies at once because then its economy goes under faster. I have managed to achieve a reasonable level of AI performance in the Grand Campaign. Because now the AI is able to stay debt free long enough for it to be able to upgrade its cities and castles. Take this out the mod and you would not see the AI building fortresses and large cities hardly anywhere. For AI economy to be good it is vital that it can upgrade its cities enough so that it can get better income later on. As settlements are improved in terms of income the AI is then able to field more armies.

Dave

[Gato The Great]

This is another thing that not many people realise, the precise way in which KGCM is already setup. I worked hard on improving the AI treasury in previous updates. This has a lot to do with building recruitment. Give buildings too many units to recruit at each tech level and the AI will buy far too many units than it actually needs. So what I did was to cut some weaker units at certain building points. I also reduced the replenishment pool for heavy infantry and cavalry units which cost the most upkeep. The result was that instead of the AI going bankrupt in say 20 turns it was staying above the red for 50 turns or more. Which might not sound like an awful lot but it is a big improvement. I also gave the AI factions a kings purse bonus cheat (which gives them the most on very hard difficulty).

But even with all this you are right that half of the factions in the campaign may get into debt (not all). So you really DONT want the AI to spam more armies at once because then its economy goes under faster. I have managed to achieve a reasonable level of AI performance in the Grand Campaign. Because now the AI is able to stay debt free long enough for it to be able to upgrade its cities and castles. Take this out the mod and you would not see the AI building fortresses and large cities hardly anywhere. For AI economy to be good it is vital that it can upgrade its cities enough so that it can get better income later on. As settlements are improved in terms of income the AI is then able to field more armies.

Dave

Thanks for explination for the new pacth would be possible for you to look at unit rebalancing

[TWWolfe]

4. i meant that A.I factions treasury should have not always be bankrupt ( recruit and field more armies)

Well historically, most of these factions were always on the edge of bankruptcy. Heck, during the hundred years war, the two main ways England paid its armies was letting them plunder the french countryside, and ransoming captured enemies. This is the time period when armies serving the ruler under oath were being replaced by armies who served for pay, but the king was still required to support his troops mostly from his own pocket.

[Gato The Great]

So Dave changing the subject any ETA on the new pacth ???

[Stylix]

So Dave changing the subject any ETA on the new pacth ???

The new patch is only a month or so away from release and I really look forward to getting the new changes out to you all.