TLK submod -True to the Sagas- [RELEASED]

[Mr Kriegtooth]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Boru

Information about Brian Boru He helped to end Viking rule in Ireland, and he pretty much unified Ireland in his rule, and ive read something saying that under him, Ireland actually counted as an Empire since he had some Scottish islands taken under control.

So I'd say he'd be a pretty good special character for the Kingdom of Munster, even if he arrives kinda late

[Himster]

Given the manner in which Brian Bóruma mac Cennétig takes power it might be cool for his script to come in when Munster gets destroyed?

[Úlfhéðinn]

Given the manner in which Brian Bóruma mac Cennétig takes power it might be cool for his script to come in when Munster gets destroyed?

That's a good idea if this is possible without scripting a new emerging faction.
For all the other characters I've simply used turn numbers for now and not specific events to keep their age and time of appearance correct. Though for a later release I'm also planning on making them rebel generals if their faction have been destroyed.
My time is slightly limited and it's a lot of ground to cover. First I want as many historical characters as possible to emerge, then if I can tweak their order of appearance to make it more smooth I might do that.
For every character I make I also make events and give them traits for a nice historical perspective and to give them titles without risking captains being named the same.

[One-Eye]

Given the manner in which Brian Bóruma mac Cennétig takes power it might be cool for his script to come in when Munster gets destroyed?

and for which faction will be Bóruma leader if Munster is destroyed?

That's a good idea if this is possible without scripting a new emerging faction.

yes, it is possible to script spawn faction. you can spawn it in exactly year, or only if some conditions will be fulfiled.

but for spawning new historical family members look here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=374314

[Úlfhéðinn]

yes, it is possible to script spawn faction. you can spawn it in exactly year, or only if some conditions will be fulfiled.

but for spawning new historical family members look here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=374314

Obviously I know of these things but I'm not planning on making any emerging factions... yet.

[One-Eye]

Obviously I know of these things but I'm not planning on making any emerging factions... yet.

this looks as confusion a little
this is not about spawning emergent factions. this is about spawning (historic) family members who will be adopdet by family members of existing faction.

[Úlfhéðinn]

Yup, I know and I've already put in several scripted emerging family members in the new patch
And yup I know it's possible to script spawn an emerging faction but I'm not getting into that.

[smoesville]

That's a good idea if this is possible without scripting a new emerging faction.

If you split Galway into Galway / Clare then you could have the Dál gCais start as rulers of Luimneach and have him arrive at the correct time? I think you can make a faction re-emerge if they have died out.

[One-Eye]

nice to see your submod in tLK

EDIT: this is my log after installing patch

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

02:14:39.600 [system.rpt] [always] CPU: SSE2
02:14:39.614 [system.rpt] [always] ==== system log start, build date: Aug 9 2007 version bld-medieval2-kingdoms-105 (45777) ===
02:14:39.621 [system.io] [always] mounted pack packs/data_0.pack
02:14:39.622 [system.io] [always] mounted pack packs/data_1.pack
02:14:39.625 [system.io] [always] mounted pack packs/data_2.pack
02:14:39.627 [system.io] [always] mounted pack packs/data_3.pack
02:14:39.629 [system.io] [always] mounted pack packs/data_4.pack
02:14:39.629 [system.io] [always] mounted pack packs/localized.pack
02:15:32.348 [script.err] [error] Script Error in mods/Last_Kingdom/data/world/maps/base/descr_regions.txt, at line 799, column 5
Couldn't find settlement name 'Borgund' in stringtable
02:17:20.915 [system.rpt] [error] Odin help us! Something went wrong and only Thor might know what.
I have no idea what happened, so I am exiting now.

[Úlfhéðinn]

nice to see your submod in tLK

EDIT: this is my log after installing patch

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

02:14:39.600 [system.rpt] [always] CPU: SSE2
02:14:39.614 [system.rpt] [always] ==== system log start, build date: Aug 9 2007 version bld-medieval2-kingdoms-105 (45777) ===
02:14:39.621 [system.io] [always] mounted pack packs/data_0.pack
02:14:39.622 [system.io] [always] mounted pack packs/data_1.pack
02:14:39.625 [system.io] [always] mounted pack packs/data_2.pack
02:14:39.627 [system.io] [always] mounted pack packs/data_3.pack
02:14:39.629 [system.io] [always] mounted pack packs/data_4.pack
02:14:39.629 [system.io] [always] mounted pack packs/localized.pack
02:15:32.348 [script.err] [error] Script Error in mods/Last_Kingdom/data/world/maps/base/descr_regions.txt, at line 799, column 5
Couldn't find settlement name 'Borgund' in stringtable
02:17:20.915 [system.rpt] [error] Odin help us! Something went wrong and only Thor might know what.
I have no idea what happened, so I am exiting now.

It's probably because your changes are not compatible with mine.

And now that True to the Sagas are incorporated to tLK's patch I'd like feedback on my work.
Historical inaccuracies, settlement names, spawn dates or just a general feedback will do.

[Heathen Storm]

Hey mate, good work. I love the Vestfold campaign. My only complaint is that i've united Norway and Konungr Harald's ephitet did not change to "Fairhair", nor did he receive the King of Norway ancillary.

[Úlfhéðinn]

Hey mate, good work. I love the Vestfold campaign. My only complaint is that i've united Norway and Konungr Harald's ephitet did not change to "Fairhair", nor did he receive the King of Norway ancillary.

I haven't touched any of those.

Keep me updated on your campaign, interesting (and historical) things will happen

And do you like the new viking voices?

[Heathen Storm]

I haven't touched any of those.

Keep me updated on your campaign, interesting things will happen

It's been great so far, Hrolf has been exiled to the Normans and I've taken a few settlements in Scotland.

I have not heard them. I will listen in on them later tonight

[One-Eye]

Ulfhednin, you did great job. the idea about historical rebels is very nice, I will implement it for Ireland.

as you know I worked also on Norway a little before I start work on British islands.
in my research I found much records in Bokmal language (which I do not understand and google
translation is terrible .
I look at your Norway and have several notices:
- why not use for regions names of petty kingdoms. for some regions you did it, but some
regions have quite unknown names/names of small provinces where settlements lies.

- is it Skidan? not Skiða? and region for it Ringerike/Hringaríki (petty kingdom)? or Telemark/Þelamǫrk?
- Áslo (Oslo). I found several records where date of its foundation is around 1000 AD or later. but you are Norwegian...
- I can not find anything about Vellalandir. what is it now?
- not find for Alrekstadir. what it is?
- Kaupangr, means market place, yes? and there were many kaupangrs.
- Gular could be Gaular.
- and region Fyrdafylki could be Sogn (petty kingdom).
- Borgund could be Borgyndr?
- region Maerafylki could be Romsdal/Raumsdalr (petty kingdom).

I think Norway should has more regions (seconded if there will be jarldom
of Nidaros in next release). so what about this Norway?:

1, Avaldsnes, Körmt
2, Stafangr, Rygjafylki
3, Ottrunes, Agðir
4, Kinsarvik, Horðaland or Horðafylke
5, Gaular, Sogn or Sygnafylki
6, Borgyndr, Raumsdalr
7, Hlaðir, Þrœndalag
8, Njarðøy, Naumudalr
9, Tjøtta, Háleygialand
10, Skiða, Þelamark or maybe better Hringaríki
11, Skíringssalr, Vestfold
12, Áslo, Vingulmörk (I am not sure with Oslo...)
13, Akr, Oppland or Uppland
14, Vellalandir, Ālfheimr (not sure with Vellalandir
15, Konghelle, Ránríki

some more regions would be fine. 15 (with your Alrekstadir) + 2 (Varmland, Jamtland) it is 18. for 3 factions maybe enough.

all feedbacky, ideas, notices, critique is welcome - let´s do Norway perfect

[Úlfhéðinn]

Ulfhednin, you did great job. the idea about historical rebels is very nice, I will implement it for Ireland.

as you know I worked also on Norway a little before I start work on British islands.
in my research I found much records in Bokmal language (which I do not understand and google
translation is terrible .
I look at your Norway and have several notices:
- why not use for regions names of petty kingdoms. for some regions you did it, but some
regions have quite unknown names/names of small provinces where settlements lies.

- is it Skidan? not Skiða? and region for it Ringerike/Hringaríki (petty kingdom)? or Telemark/Þelamǫrk?
- Áslo (Oslo). I found several records where date of its foundation is around 1000 AD or later. but you are Norwegian...
- I can not find anything about Vellalandir. what is it now?
- not find for Alrekstadir. what it is?
- Kaupangr, means market place, yes? and there were many kaupangrs.
- Gular could be Gaular.
- and region Fyrdafylki could be Sogn (petty kingdom).
- Borgund could be Borgyndr?
- region Maerafylki could be Romsdal/Raumsdalr (petty kingdom).

I think Norway should has more regions (seconded if there will be jarldom
of Nidaros in next release). so what about this Norway?:

1, Avaldsnes, Körmt
2, Stafangr, Rygjafylki
3, Ottrunes, Agðir
4, Kinsarvik, Horðaland or Horðafylke
5, Gaular, Sogn or Sygnafylki
6, Borgyndr, Raumsdalr
7, Hlaðir, Þrœndalag
8, Njarðøy, Naumudalr
9, Tjøtta, Háleygialand
10, Skiða, Þelamark or maybe better Hringaríki
11, Skíringssalr, Vestfold
12, Áslo, Vingulmörk (I am not sure with Oslo...)
13, Akr, Oppland or Uppland
14, Vellalandir, Ālfheimr (not sure with Vellalandir
15, Konghelle, Ránríki

some more regions would be fine. 15 (with your Alrekstadir) + 2 (Varmland, Jamtland) it is 18. for 3 factions maybe enough.

all feedbacky, ideas, notices, critique is welcome - let´s do Norway perfect

All my regions are authentic names. Though a couple of places I've merged several smaller fylki's, or petty kingdoms if you will, for gameplay purposes.
I've already increased the number of fylkis by 5 and adding even more would make Norway the largest and most powerful area to posess, which would not be very historical. This could also be remedied by making some danish, frankish and British cities larger though it would still not be good for gameplay in my opinion.
I'm not sure if defending each of my choices is the way to go as I'd expect you to provide some sort of evidence for the alternative, but:
1, Avaldsnes, Körmt Though Körmt or Karmøy is a historical name it was never a petty kingdom or region and is a small island that belongs to Rygjafylki
2, Stafangr, Rygjafylki See above, though I considered putting the dock of Rygjafylki where Stafangr is located.
3, Ottrunes, Agðir - As I have it
4, Kinsarvik, Horðaland or Horðafylke Alrekstaðir was the royal farm from which the petty kingdom of Hörðafylki was governed and later Haraldr and other kings kept this the place of power in Hörðafylki. Though I believe I didn't have Hörðafylki but Horðaland, didn't I.
5, Gaular, Sogn or Sygnafylki - Though Gaular is mentioned in the sagas, my map places it in Firðafylki (fjordane)
6, Borgyndr, Raumsdalr - Nice suggestion for the place name but unless you have proof that was the way it was spelled I will believe my own sources of Borgund and Raumsdælafylki.
I've placed Mærafylki as one region even though it was actually 3 different petty kingdoms (Raumsdælafylki, Sunnmærafylki and Norðmærafylki) for gameplay purposes.
7, Hlaðir, Þrœndalag - As suggested, though this was supposedly the area with most people in it and should maybe consist of all the petty kingdoms I've placed into Þrœndalag. Nevertheless the area is "merged" after this point by Haraldr and I've made the town the biggest in Norway instead of several.
8, Njarðøy, Naumudalr - Naumdælafyki is authentic and better describing.
9, Tjøtta, Háleygialand - As suggested
10, Skiða, Þelamark or maybe better Hringaríki Good, it is a more correct name, and I've also considered having Þelamörk. Skiða doesn't reside in Þelamörk but rather in Grenland. Þelamörk and Grenland was called Grenafylki. Hringaríki does not reside in this area but rather in Haðafylki which I've merged into Uppland
11, Skíringssalr, Vestfold - As suggested
12, Áslo, Vingulmörk (I am not sure with Oslo...) - No saga sources mention Áslo and archeological findings have only proof that the town reached townstatus around year 1000, nevertheless people is expected to have lived there before year 1000 and on the map Vingulmörk is really small not leaving many options to put there.
13, Akr, Oppland or Uppland - As suggested
14, Vellalandir, Ālfheimr (not sure with Vellalandir) - In the sagas Konung Gandalv lived in an area called landir so I can only assume it's the same area as I find Vellalandir on my maps. Borg was founded much later by Ólafr Haraldson.
15, Konghelle, Ránríki - Konungahella would be the correct spelling but again the area is small and no kings is mentioned so I had to let it go.

[One-Eye]

All my regions are authentic names. Though a couple of places I've merged several smaller fylki's, or petty kingdoms if you will, for gameplay purposes.

but you covered all petty kingdom or larger area with name of small region. example: if there will be mod from all world with only one region for Norway, you will name it Noway not (example: Vingulmork).

I've already increased the number of fylkis by 5 and adding even more would make Norway the largest and most powerful area to posess, which would not be very historical. This could also be remedied by making some danish, frankish and British cities larger though it would still not be good for gameplay in my opinion.

in Ireland will be (maybe) 18 regions for 2 factions...

I'm not sure if defending each of my choices is the way to go as I'd expect you to provide some sort of evidence for the alternative, but:

come on, it´s debate

1, Avaldsnes, Körmt Though Körmt or Karmøy is a historical name it was never a petty kingdom or region and is a small island that belongs to Rygjafylki
2, Stafangr, Rygjafylki See above, though I considered putting the dock of Rygjafylki where Stafangr is located.

Kormt would be if there will be 2 settlements for Rogaland. btw, I think Rogaland should be better faction as Hordaland. what do you think?

4, Kinsarvik, Horðaland or Horðafylke Alrekstaðir was the royal farm from which the petty kingdom of Hörðafylki was governed and later Haraldr and other kings kept this the place of power in Hörðafylki. Though I believe I didn't have Hörðafylki but Horðaland, didn't I.

your advance is - you are from Norway

5, Gaular, Sogn or Sygnafylki - Though Gaular is mentioned in the sagas, my map places it in Firðafylki (fjordane)

and area is large as all Sogn...

6, Borgyndr, Raumsdalr - Nice suggestion for the place name but unless you have proof that was the way it was spelled I will believe my own sources of Borgund and Raumsdælafylki.
I've placed Mærafylki as one region even though it was actually 3 different petty kingdoms (Raumsdælafylki, Sunnmærafylki and Norðmærafylki) for gameplay purposes.

Borgund is too modern.

7, Hlaðir, Þrœndalag - As suggested, though this was supposedly the area with most people in it and should maybe consist of all the petty kingdoms I've placed into Þrœndalag. Nevertheless the area is "merged" after this point by Haraldr and I've made the town the biggest in Norway instead of several.

do not forget, here will be Jarldom of Nidaros in next release, I believe...

8, Njarðøy, Naumudalr - Naumdælafyki is authentic and better describing.

Njarðøy is settlement name.

9, Tjøtta, Háleygialand - As suggested
10, Skiða, Þelamark or maybe better Hringaríki Good, it is a more correct name, and I've also considered having Þelamörk. Skiða doesn't reside in Þelamörk but rather in Grenland. Þelamörk and Grenland was called Grenafylki. Hringaríki does not reside in this area but rather in Haðafylki which I've merged into Uppland

again, how large is/was Grenaflyki?

12, Áslo, Vingulmörk (I am not sure with Oslo...) - No saga sources mention Áslo and archeological findings have only proof that the town reached townstatus around year 1000, nevertheless people is expected to have lived there before year 1000 and on the map Vingulmörk is really small not leaving many options to put there.

sounds fine.

14, Vellalandir, Ālfheimr (not sure with Vellalandir) - In the sagas Konung Gandalv lived in an area called landir so I can only assume it's the same area as I find Vellalandir on my maps. Borg was founded much later by Ólafr Haraldson.

but no records for this name, yes?

15, Konghelle, Ránríki - Konungahella would be the correct spelling but again the area is small and no kings is mentioned so I had to let it go.

are is small? it is larger as Vingulmork. no king? you made rebels as kings but without kingdoms, just with small areas

you are Norge, you know Bokmal. my goal is only settlements/regions as they were in mods era.

[Úlfhéðinn]

but you covered all petty kingdom or larger area with name of small region. example: if there will be mod from all world with only one region for Norway, you will name it Noway not (example: Vingulmork).

No I have not. Vingulmörk is authentic as a region

in Ireland will be (maybe) 18 regions for 2 factions...

If Ireland is increased with so many regions I believe Brittain should also be increased and Denmark, after that, maybe Norway too. As for now I think Norway have enough regions.

come on, it´s debate

So it is indeed

Kormt would be if there will be 2 settlements for Rogaland.

I do not think Rygjafylki deserves 2 settlements.

btw, I think Rogaland should be better faction as Hordaland. what do you think?

I do not believe either of those deserve to be a faction more than the other. Both "royal families" were wiped out 10 years after the start of the mod and so do not deserve a faction slot. They do, however, increase the resistance of uniting Norway and offers the player the chance to defeat Haraldr Fairhair and unite Norway under another king.

and area is large as all Sogn...

No it is not, look at the map in wiki to see the small area.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaular

Borgund is too modern.

Well it's the name on my maps...

do not forget, here will be Jarldom of Nidaros in next release, I believe...

Will there?

Njarðøy is settlement name.

Yes?

again, how large is/was Grenaflyki?

It's pretty large, as I said Þelamörk and Grenland combined was labeled Grenafylki

but no records for this name, yes?

I have the names on several maps

are is small? it is larger as Vingulmork. no king? you made rebels as kings but without kingdoms, just with small areas

Vingulmörk is mentioned several times and I consider the area important, Most of my rebels have their own petty kingdom but some (e.g Konungr of Raumsdælafylki) have had their kingdom merged (e.g Mærafylki) though they all make sense and the regions and names are historically correct.

[One-Eye]

No I have not. Vingulmörk is authentic as a region

here is a misapprehension. ofcourse Vingulmork is fine. I wanted to say - you with name of small area covered much larger area because the settlement lies dirrect in this small area. but it lies also in larger area.
and the point was - when you will do mod from all the Europe and for Norway will be only one region and you add for Norway settlement Áslo you will not name all Norway Vingulmork. look below about Gaular...

If Ireland is increased with so many regions I believe Brittain should also be increased and Denmark, after that, maybe Norway too. As for now I think Norway have enough regions.

there are only 5 more regions as in "vanilla" tLK. but I agree the settlemenmts will need balance.

I do not think Rygjafylki deserves 2 settlements. I do not believe either of those deserve to be a faction more than the other. Both "royal families" were wiped out 10 years after the start of the mod and so do not deserve a faction slot. They do, however, increase the resistance of uniting Norway and offers the player the chance to defeat Haraldr Fairhair and unite Norway under another king.

I am fine with this.

No it is not, look at the map in wiki to see the small area.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaular

ok. so let´s look at maps. the first map is Gaular´s area (red) within all Sogn (grey). the second is all Sogn (red) within Norway. look to attachments and you will see about what I speak all time.

Well it's the name on my maps...

well it´s your submod. so if it is baseless for you if any name/settlement/region is historic correct, I can not do more as only mention this

Will there?

is here any news, that no?

Yes?

no?

It's pretty large, as I said Þelamörk and Grenland combined was labeled Grenafylki

it loks that Grenland covers mainly south Telemark.

I have the names on several maps

ok. your advantage - you are Norge

Vingulmörk is mentioned several times and I consider the area important, Most of my rebels have their own petty kingdom but some (e.g Konungr of Raumsdælafylki) have had their kingdom merged (e.g Mærafylki) though they all make sense and the regions and names are historically correct.

I did not say Vingulmork is incorrect. some "my" new regions/settlements I added if Norway will has more regions. if not, they are baseless.

again and again, you are Norwegian so I assume you have better access to historic records. but if region on the map_regions is large as Sogn it should has name Sogn...

[Úlfhéðinn]

here is a misapprehension. ofcourse Vingulmork is fine. I wanted to say - you with name of small area covered much larger area because the settlement lies dirrect in this small area. but it lies also in larger area.
and the point was - when you will do mod from all the Europe and for Norway will be only one region and you add for Norway settlement Áslo you will not name all Norway Vingulmork. look below about Gaular...

Which area are you saying I've made that covers a larger area?

ok. so let´s look at maps. the first map is Gaular´s area (red) within all Sogn (grey). the second is all Sogn (red) within Norway. look to attachments and you will see about what I speak all time.

The first one is indeed Gaular municipalty, though the second picture is Sogn AND Fjordane, today they are one county but back to the mod's time it was Sygnafylki and Firðafylki, two different but important counties.

again and again, you are Norwegian so I assume you have better access to historic records. but if region on the map_regions is large as Sogn it should has name Sogn...

It does - Sygnafylki and look above for size explanation

well it´s your submod. so if it is baseless for you if any name/settlement/region is historic correct, I can not do more as only mention this

I'm not sure I understand you, I just explained my reasons for having Vellulandir. What would you propose instead since you seem to discard my explanations?

is here any news, that no?

Well, the team is discussing a lot of things, though no major work has been made for starting creating new factions other than that. And I've commented already on the name of that faction very unhistorical

no?

err... right!
Haha, not sure I understood you there, Njarðey is in as a settlement, did you not think it should be there? If so what would be your suggestion?

it loks that Grenland covers mainly south Telemark.

Grenland was the area closest to the coast, while Þelamörk covered the inland area of what was labeled Grenafylki. I remain of the opinion that Grenafylki is the most correct, and as mentioned Skiða is a settlement in Grenland, NOT Þelamörk - though since Þelamörk is a more, well viking sounding name I guess we could change it though it's more correct as it is.
And some counties are indeed missing entirely due to gameplay reasons and not making "the cut" for historical importantness

[One-Eye]

Which area are you saying I've made that covers a larger area?

ok, there are some limits due M2TW engine (if we do not have no mans land - what is btw possible - you must cover with region large area). looking at your map_regions, it should be fine. just Maerafylki I do not like - Raumsdalr is my favourite.

The first one is indeed Gaular municipalty, though the second picture is Sogn AND Fjordane, today they are one county but back to the mod's time it was Sygnafylki and Firðafylki, two different but important counties.
It does - Sygnafylki and look above for size explanation

sorry, just now I see that you divided Sogn between two regions. it should be fine

I'm not sure I understand you, I just explained my reasons for having Vellulandir. What would you propose instead since you seem to discard my explanations?

I´ve read probably another sources. just I do not like Borgund name, realy. sounds too modern.

Well, the team is discussing a lot of things, though no major work has been made for starting creating new factions other than that. And I've commented already on the name of that faction very unhistorical

yes, yes. it was Jarldom of Lade

err... right!
Haha, not sure I understood you there, Njarðey is in as a settlement, did you not think it should be there? If so what would be your suggestion?

I must missed it anyway...

Grenland was the area closest to the coast, while Þelamörk covered the inland area of what was labeled Grenafylki. I remain of the opinion that Grenafylki is the most correct, and as mentioned Skiða is a settlement in Grenland, NOT Þelamörk - though since Þelamörk is a more, well viking sounding name I guess we could change it though it's more correct as it is.

ok. btw look at attachments - Norway with "no mans land". and also Iceland. just I do not know if tLK team will like something like this

And some counties are indeed missing entirely due to gameplay reasons and not making "the cut" for historical importantness

ofcourse, it is not possible to have everything in game.

could you as Norwegian look at my changes for Shettlands, Faore islands and Hebridas?
here is link on my build http://www.megaupload.com/?d=D7KL8EQV