Hands and Feet Blog

**♔Old Dragoon♔** · July 18, 2011, 09:22 AM

What is this? I am a ever struggling believer of Jesus Christ who is tired of legalistic traditional 'church.' Three other fellow believers and friends of mine have started a 'house church' likened to how the early Christians in Acts 2 worshiped and fellowshipped together in each other's houses. I will be jotting down thoughts on how I am trying to follow the 'Great Commission.' That is the 'hands and feet' business. Christian is Christ like or imitators of Christ. More often than not we have failed miserably. I will be also jotting down insights and thoughts about how to be more like Him.

Purpose? I know there are many fellow believers who struggle daily with how be doing more as a 'Believer.' Or you just don't know where to start or feel lost. You may have been or just become a 'Believer' and now feel abandoned. This is designed to help give insight into assisting anybody who wants help in trying to find purpose in their 'walk.'

Notes: I don't proclaim to have the answers just sharing and trying give insight in my years of struggling through life as a 'Believer of Jesus.' Any one is welcome to comment or criticize...I can take it!

First Blog will be: Does the Great Commission Mean I Have to Become a Ponzi Scheme for Christ?

First off what do I mean by this? Well you'd have to read the Gospels Matthew through John and see how Jesus reached the 'lost.' Did he try to pitch them a spiel or rail on them about how they were going to hell, or scare them to heaven? No, he walked with them, ate with them, and worked with them. He forged genuine relationships with no strings attached, and he did what he said he was going to do.

In contrast I have tried the Ponzi scheme way and felt like I was involved in a Ponzi scheme. As a result I felt dirty because of it, ashamed, and then of course mad at God when people literally ran from me. I thought surely this is not how God wants us to be the 'Salt and Light' as stated by Jesus in Matthew 5 in the 'Sermon on the Mount.' What do you all think? Am I too critical or not critical enough?

**Col. Tartleton** · July 18, 2011, 12:36 PM

You could just wash your hands of it entirely and read a few physics books.

"If devotion to truth is the hallmark of morality, then there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking...the alleged short-cut to knowledge, which is faith, is only a short-circuit destroying the mind." -- Ayn Rand

Also your avatar is blasphemous idol worship.

But that's okay so is mine.

**Ancient Aliens** · July 18, 2011, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton

You could just wash your hands of it entirely and read a few physics books.

Agreed.

OP, you are keeping an open mind and I applaud you for that. Maybe it's time for you to go on a personal search for your spiritual truth? My search led me to atheism. Remember, as Thomas Jefferson said:

"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear”

Also your avatar is blasphemous idol worship.

But that's okay so is mine.

As is mine, who's isn't?

**Hilarion** · July 19, 2011, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton

Also your avatar is blasphemous idol worship.

But that's okay so is mine.

I suppose you don't care, but idols are very different from icons.

**Ancient Aliens** · July 19, 2011, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Viscount Bolingbroke

I suppose you don't care, but idols are very different from icons.

Well, he does indirectly bring up an interesting point: prayer to saints, crucifixes, and religious, artistic representations are examples of both idolatry and polytheism.

**Mythos** · July 18, 2011, 01:54 PM

I am waiting with keen interest to see what social media and the Internet are going to do to Christianity. Between never-ending ridicule from the bazillion of intelligent people online and the splintering of tiny groups like this, it is certainly going to be fun watching the established churces trying to stem the tide.

This comes to mind:

**♔Old Dragoon♔** · July 18, 2011, 03:49 PM

You could just wash your hands of it entirely and read a few physics books.

Some days I feel like doing this.

Also your avatar is blasphemous idol worship.

But that's okay so is mine.

That was also said about my Jesus is my homeboy shirt...

OP, you are keeping an open mind and I applaud you for that. Maybe it's time for you to go on a personal search for your spiritual truth? My search led me to atheism. Remember, as Thomas Jefferson said:

"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear”

I have been on many self spiritual searches and finally on solid foundation with the present one...

Thanks for the applause!

I am waiting with keen interest to see what social media and the Internet are going to do to Christianity. Between never-ending ridicule from the bazillion of intelligent people online and the splintering of tiny groups like this, it is certainly going to be fun watching the established churces trying to stem the tide.

This comes to mind:

Well what has been is this years and years of Christians worried about who is and who isn't going to hell rather than trying to lead non-believers to heaven. Now this is changing...finally! Of course there are still the hardliners... Thanks for the comments thus far. Keep them coming!

**Col. Tartleton** · July 18, 2011, 05:03 PM

Here's the facts:

There were Christians willing to die for Christ who honestly thought he was The God.
There were Gentiles willing to die for Caesar who honestly thought he was a God.

The Christians were more prolific than even the Roman Legions. Probably because Jesus offered them more stuff. We have no idea if that will hold up though. Caesar lives on too, so does Alexander, Hannibal, Aristotle, Plato, Ramses, and Tutankhamen. We still say Amen at the end of prayers when he was a pagan God. We use Christs name as a curse word... We label our days after Norse Heathens, two of our months are deified Roman Emperors... The churches leadership is corrupt, we make offerings to trees on Yule which we blasphemously call Christianity in spite of Jeremiah 10 warning us of decorated trees and giving gifts to such idols...

If we cut out all the blasphemy and contradictions there wouldn't be a religion left, just a bunch of confused people wondering where their crucifixes, priests, and churches went.

**Caledonian Rhyfelwyr** · July 18, 2011, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton

If we cut out all the blasphemy and contradictions there wouldn't be a religion left, just a bunch of confused people wondering where their crucifixes, priests, and churches went.

I'm doing fine here, thank you!

Anyway, go for it, OP, sounds like a good idea.

**Carpathian Wolf** · July 18, 2011, 11:15 PM

Which "legalistic traditional church" are you tired of?

**♔Old Dragoon♔** · July 19, 2011, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Carpathian Wolf

Which "legalistic traditional church" are you tired of?

Pretty much all indoctrinated denominations. I am not saying they are bad, just not my cup of tea. I enjoy what I am trying to do now and how my walk with the Lord is going. Again, not saying I'm perfect by any stretch of the imagination. However, I now feel there is purpose in what I'm doing, and that is a good thing.

Next Blog will be the Sermon on the Mount: Matthew 5

**Carpathian Wolf** · July 19, 2011, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by ♔Old Dragoon♔

Pretty much all indoctrinated denominations. I am not saying they are bad, just not my cup of tea. I enjoy what I am trying to do now and how my walk with the Lord is going. Again, not saying I'm perfect by any stretch of the imagination. However, I now feel there is purpose in what I'm doing, and that is a good thing.

Next Blog will be the Sermon on the Mount: Matthew 5

Which denominations of indoctrination have you had experience with?

**♔Old Dragoon♔** · July 19, 2011, 09:52 PM

Easier to list the ones I haven't: Eastern Orthodox, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, and Nazarene. I am sure there are a few others that's just the one's that came to mind.

**Carpathian Wolf** · July 19, 2011, 10:44 PM

I wouldn't recommend most of the ones on that list myself, and probably nothing else either.

**Monarchist** · July 19, 2011, 11:12 PM

I appreciate what you are trying to do, Old Dragon, but the notion that "established", "traditional", and "doctrinal" churches are anti-Christ is insulting. You may not have said the exact words, but the way you're explaining things it seems you believe that the members of the Roman, Anglican, and Eastern churches cannot be "truly" Christian, or completely authentic. When you say that they've become too set in their ways (or some such criticism), you leave out the personal factor. My best friend is a Franciscan friar of the Catholic Church, and he only speaks about living as a true Christian at all times.

It may be true that the Words of Institution at the Canon of the Mass require certain unchanging words for the ritual to be efficacious, but intent matters as well. Our stale old traditional established dogmatic churches actually bother to keep doctrinal clarity down through the centuries. How is this possible with only one or two men in a "house church"? Such things were a necessity for the persecutions, not an undying liturgical/communal model.

**♔Old Dragoon♔** · July 19, 2011, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Consular

I appreciate what you are trying to do, Old Dragon, but the notion that "established", "traditional", and "doctrinal" churches are anti-Christ is insulting. You may not have said the exact words, but the way you're explaining things it seems you believe that the members of the Roman, Anglican, and Eastern churches cannot be "truly" Christian, or completely authentic. When you say that they've become too set in their ways (or some such criticism), you leave out the personal factor. My best friend is a Franciscan friar of the Catholic Church, and he only speaks about living as a true Christian at all times.

It may be true that the Words of Institution at the Canon of the Mass require certain unchanging words for the ritual to be efficacious, but intent matters as well. Our stale old traditional established dogmatic churches actually bother to keep doctrinal clarity down through the centuries. How is this possible with only one or two men in a "house church"? Such things were a necessity for the persecutions, not an undying liturgical/communal model.

OK, let me break it down for you. I never said those "indoctrinated denominations" weren't Christian. I said they were "not my cup of tea." Meaning, I don't wish to partake in them in this juncture of my walk. The intent is not to insult, and if did I apologize, though I think you mis-read what this "Hands and Feet" blog is about. I applaud your Franciscan friar, I really do. That is great. One of my favorite men of God to talk to is a priest at a local Catholic Church. Also, the purpose of this is to offer help to anyone who is struggling with their faith or anyone who wants to chime in and criticize so thank you again for your chime. There are around 20 consistent "house church" members in our group and we are striving to let Jesus be our example, and try to "walk in his shoes." I may wake up a year from now and feel God is pulling me into Eastern Orthodox, you never know.

Probably not but I know it will be surprising as long as I surrender myself daily.

Actually Jesus did talk about hell and punishment. And he described it very vividly. Just like how high morality, and all it entails, exists, there is low morality and all that entails exists also. Maybe Christianity would be "nicer" if Jesus never mentioned hell, but Jesus' purpose was to tell us the way it is, no sugar coating. There is a lot of judgment that exists in Christian communites, but just like with every other moral situation you have to accept the high and the low

He didn't say it in the way we use it today, that is semantics. Actually he talks of hades quite often in the gospels. Translate how you like, it was before he died and rose from the grave.

**Monarchist** · July 20, 2011, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by ♔Old Dragoon♔

OK, let me break it down for you. I never said those "indoctrinated denominations" weren't Christian. I said they were "not my cup of tea." Meaning, I don't wish to partake in them in this juncture of my walk. The intent is not to insult, and if did I apologize, though I think you mis-read what this "Hands and Feet" blog is about. I applaud your Franciscan friar, I really do. That is great. One of my favorite men of God to talk to is a priest at a local Catholic Church. Also, the purpose of this is to offer help to anyone who is struggling with their faith or anyone who wants to chime in and criticize so thank you again for your chime. There are around 20 consistent "house church" members in our group and we are striving to let Jesus be our example, and try to "walk in his shoes." I may wake up a year from now and feel God is pulling me into Eastern Orthodox, you never know.

Probably not but I know it will be surprising as long as I surrender myself daily.

Well, I suppose the Christian way to act is to tell you what I genuinely believe, but with charity. If I tried to do so without charity, you'd have to report my posts.

Christ our Lord founded one, holy, catholic, apostolic church. She is not an Invisible Church of believers. She was physical in existence on Pentecost, and grew by a physically-measurable number on that day (from 120 to 3000). Our holy Church is the Bride and Body of Christ the Risen (alleluia!), and is not deflected into a billion different souls. Where the Apostles walked forth from Jerusalem, there it spread. The Holy Spirit of God hovered over these specific men as time passed. I don't see the Acts of the Apostles entrusting the Word and the Power to all believers, all disciples - merely to the Apostles.

Sorry to sound harsh, but the way I see it... if it "isn't your cup of tea", then orthodox, classical, original Christianity is "not your cup of tea", and you prefer your own way to Christ's established way. We must grow in holiness in the confines of the Church. It may produce the most pigheaded morons and corrupt bishops you could ever imagine, but it remains the living Body of the One God! To wander about, not "wishing to partake in them at this particular juncture", is to be an apostate. We have to partake of the One Church at all junctures of our walk, period. I may not like it, myself, but it remains true in the Bible and in the Tradition.

**The Million Dollar Prons** · July 19, 2011, 11:20 PM

Actually Jesus did talk about hell and punishment. And he described it very vividly. Just like how high morality, and all it entails, exists, there is low morality and all that entails exists also. Maybe Christianity would be "nicer" if Jesus never mentioned hell, but Jesus' purpose was to tell us the way it is, no sugar coating. There is a lot of judgment that exists in Christian communites, but just like with every other moral situation you have to accept the high and the low

**♔Old Dragoon♔** · July 20, 2011, 12:03 AM

Actually my avatar is about my first and last name being in it cleverly, so I don't pray to saints and all that because I have an avatar with one in it holding a flintlock rifle. I pray based on the Lord's prayer example from Matthew 6.

**Ancient Aliens** · July 20, 2011, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by ♔Old Dragoon♔

Actually my avatar is about my first and last name being in it cleverly, so I don't pray to saints and all that because I have an avatar with one in it holding a flintlock rifle. I pray based on the Lord's prayer example from Matthew 6.

I was actually refering to Viscounts post about Colonels post. I noticed that the saint in your avatar had a rifle from the getgo