Humans- Morally good but easily mislead, or naturally evil but able to change?

[Septimius Severus]

I’ve always examined human behavior in many situations, and I usually saw the reaction I expected to see. In my view humans seem to be more inclined to taking care of themselves first and usually only do things that will benefit themselves. I’ve also taken note of the submission to pleasure, which shows that people seem to want immediate gratification. People (Probably a generalization) tend to do things, such as whacking off, just to please their senses. I think that this capitulation to the senses contradicts the whole idea of our superiority to the other living organisms.

I see people as naturally evil beings who must rise above and control their emotions so that we do not become prisoners within our own bodies. (Though we are all condemned to solitary confinement within our bodies for the rest of our lives, whether or not we like it. ) Yes, I do seem to be an existentialist, but that is because I draw from my experiences of dealing with pleasure and from what I see of other people. I just do not see humans as morally good creatures who are often mislead because of external pressures or influences. This is also a reason I respect people with Spartan-like qualities- they practice restraint and try not to give into worldly delusions, even though this is virtually impossible for fallible beings like ourselves. But, of course, I am far from perfect; I give into my emotions like any person would, though this does not cause me to disbelieve in this idea.

[rez]

I hate Satre - arrogant annoying man

Back to the point i agree with you for some of this, we are naturally selfish beings and it takes a lot of work to mould yourself into a better person. At least thats how it is for me. I know a guy who is just Good you know? Good from start to finish without every a flicker of selfishness. (oh and bye the way hes an Atheist! Bah!)

I think what you have said applies to me as i struggle constantly to even make a coherent decision without the other guy in my head telling me to screw it and do what i want... I hate that guy...

Self restraint often leads to good deeds. Selfishnes is bad and altruism is good. And from what you say about selfishness id say you know what i mean

[Irishman]

I don't think anyone is good. One can only hold back the evil. Everyone is selfish in some way, and even altruism is a form of selfishness imo (read the damned human race).

I don't know one person that is completely good, and I don't think there is anyone that is. You may say you know someone, but you just don't know them well enough. We all have skeletons in our closets.

[rez]

"even altruism is a form of selfishness imo"

Exactly how does that work?

and im sure there are plenty things i don't know about him even if he is like a brother to me, but i do know he always puts himself last. And besides everything i think the very fact of a man trying to better himself is worthy of the praise that an already better person gets

[Irishman]

Read Mark Twain's The Dammned Human Race if you want an understandable version, I dont want to type the whole thing, so heres a summary.

Humans were originally dependant on eachother to survive so our altruistic behavior is just something that has been wired into our brains. It sounds wierd, but honestly, altruism doesn't make sense in any other light (evolution wise).

I agree there are some "good" people but I think (due to the nature of man) that we must measure good in the lack of evil. I may just be cynical, but I have seen too many "good" people turn their back on you when you are in need to think that anyone can be purely good.

[rez]

You should meet my man Jimmy. ive seen what you've seen a plenty. But if Jimmy did that i'd be in an unstable place - seriously.

And if altruism really is wired into our brains - why is the modern world so selfish. Why do i fight with avengence the selfish urges in me to be altruistic.

Sorry but i see Altruism as the common denominator for good deeds. Its a struggle every day to try and live up to and if it were really instinct and that i think id drink less and sleep more

[removeduser_426582376423734]

To answer the original question:

If you look on the side of the Bible, humans are naturally evil (original sin) but have the free will to follow God. However, in other religions, it is the other way around. So, it depends on your religion (not a great answer)

[Legiondude]

Humans all have the same things they need and want, and the same things they can follow, but if they do it or not is up to them, and maybe even in they do something they think is god, they are doing something bad, and not knowing it...

WE humans sux

[Denny Crane!]

violence and reactionary behaviour can be inherited so it can be simply down to your genetic makeup. Other than that instinctually we are pack animals, predators and all the instincts these traits endow us with which influence our behaviour to a large degree.

So not inherently evil, but inherently violent and predatory.

Peter

[Darth Wong]

If humans were inherently evil, and in need of education and conditioning to keep this evil under control, can't we infer from this premise that all babies (who lack this education) must be evil? Does that strike anyone else as an odd thing to believe?

[Irishman]

I'm not saying that all people are born evil. I'm saying that no-one is born good. It is natural to want to use others to get what you want. Babies have not yet developed enough to determine right from wrong, they are logically not much more than animals.

[Ghoulem]

I agree with the whacking off part.

But seriously: I see your point. I feel that every human is a tamed beast.
Why does it feel good to do good? Share the pain, share the joy? That's almost ego-empathy.

[Bwaho]

what is good and bad anyways? it's all subjective...unless you believe there are set universal values that determine what is good and bad.

[mischief]

define good and evil...

i really can't answer this question.
socialisation is natural, and learned. precise ethics are taught...

[TiberiosMaxus]

@Wong re: Evil Babies...

It does seem like an odd thing to believe, but I think it's because we've always considered the "potential to do harm" in our assessment of "evil." A baby is merely an insignificant savage, but a savage nonetheless. This isn't a statement of their value and an excuse to kill them (I don't think we need to make humans into gods to make a case for not killing them), it's just a statement that at this stage they are almost entirely driven by instinct. Or I might say, almost exclusively under the influence of their senses.

I have to say, though, perhaps we need to frame the question differently. Is the real question here inherenty evil vs. good, or inherent selfishness vs. altruism. To this question I respond "Inherently selfish." People that do for others believe that if everyone did the same thing we'd all take care of each other (wives especially...), and therefore indirectly get their own needs met. This is simply thinly-veiled selfishness, but still selfishness.