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  1. #1

    Icon4 Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    I was playing as Spain on m/m and was raging a tough war against Portugal (first time I tried m on battlemap). The Moors were completely gone, I as Spain held Toledo, Valencia, Zaragoza and Marrakesh. Portugal held Lisbon, Pamplona, Cordoba and actually Brittany as well. I lost two important battles against them, and them they decide to attempt to siege and storm Zaragoza. I managed to defend the city were i lost about 60% and they lost about 80%, but I still got "heroic victory" for that?
    Anyway, then i had almost a full stack army ready to siege Lisbon, so i did that and some other stuff (mostly training and moving around some spies and diplomats).

    Now we come to the strange thing: When I ended that turn, I get a message that Portugal has been destroyed (although they were pretty much on the way to steamroll me) and all their regions turn rebel, armies and navies turn rebel and all their priests and cardinals died!

    And in the many where you start a new campaign, I cannot play as everyone yet (I still have to conquer them) but there Portugal is now selectable, although i never actually never conquered them completely...

    One theory (and really the only) that crosses my mind is that they actually could had run out of family members. I know that i killed 2-3 of them in battle, their king was old, so he was kind of waiting to die. But they should have had at least 1-2 more family members I think, but i can't swear that...

    And another theory ist simply that this was some kind of really strange error...

    Anyone having any ideas??

  2. #2
    xcorps's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    Did you kill the last of their family members in that last battle?
    "Every idea is an incitement. It offers itself for belief and if believed it is acted on unless some other belief outweighs it or some failure of energy stifles the movement at its birth. The only difference between the expression of an opinion and an incitement in the narrower sense is the speaker's enthusiasm for the result. Eloquence may set fire to reason." -Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    Generals don't count as family members, so if they ran out of family members but still had generals (you can tell which is which by hovering the mouse over their figure) they would have been eliminated.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    Ok, I checked with earlier savings. Their King was 61 4-5 turns earlier, so he defenitely died. The only family member or general i found that they had left was their heir in Cordoba. I'm quite sure he got killed in a battle, but I'm not 100% on that. However I did use one of my assasins on the inn in Cordoba, deatroying it to 50%, and after all regioans turned rebel, i saw that Cordoba had the uproar icon (were you also see if the city is being sieged or has a plague in it), so IF he did not get killed they might have kicked him out since inns affect public order. But it seem more plausible that he got killed in that battle.

  5. #5
    Nazgūl Killer's Avatar ✡At Your Service✡
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    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    Count yourself lucky, it seems the AI did the work for you and got itself killed.

    Now, your conception over when you can play a faction is misguided, the requirements for you to play as a certain faction, that faction must be destroyed in your campaign (Not conquered, just destroyed) by your hands or by the hands of the AI, that does not matter.

    Now, the shortcut is to win the campaign, enabling all the factions playable aside for the Papacy, Rebels, Mongols, Timruids and Aztecs.

    Best of luck!
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    OK, thanks, I#m actually getting more and more sure that I simply killed him in battle.

    However I did find this: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=464699

    Do you guys think that's a special for SS or for the TO?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    the teutonic order doesn't use a family tree, it only uses generals

  8. #8

    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    Because the teutonic's were not a nation they were a military order it was effectively just a huge swath of land under martial law.
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    we shall fight in the hills;
    we shall never surrender.

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  9. #9
    Christonikos's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    Well, the same happened to me at Britannia Campaign. I was Norway and at war with the scottish. William Wallace had just spawned and taken Inverness. While I had lost 3 open field battles, I was planning the siege of Invernes when suddenly, Scottland was gone. And I sent a spy at their castle and William Wallace was there! I was like, how did this happen? And I think they must have had other FMs, not sure though.

  10. #10
    the new username's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    lol i think that was a bonus in ur campaing

  11. #11

    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    Well as stated before Christonikos, there seems to be a difference between generals and FM's and I would guess that William Wallace would count as a general. After Portugal was gone, I could'nt find any FM's or generals whatsoever, so that must have been it.

    Now however in that same campaign, with the only fraction gone which I was at war with, I have quite many rebel areas to cope with. The obvious advantage of this is that I don not have to rage war with a faction and sink my reputation. And it's good that way since I got many allies and very good relationships with every single faction (ranging from Friendly to Perfect). My two best friends being France (the backstabbing candidate number one) and the Pope (the Pope is in fact one of my old cardinals). However that makes it harder to consider where to expand when Iberia and northwest Africa (Marrakech, Timbuktu and Arguin or whatever the name was) are mine. Maybe I should ask for a crusade? (After all the pope is my buddy
    Last edited by Sweger; July 16, 2011 at 06:52 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    Yes, William Wallace is a general, not a family member. Therefore he could be running around with his army while the nation falls apart behind him.

  13. #13
    King Gambrinus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    In some of the mods out there, when your last family member dies, a general takes his place, creating a "new dynasty". It is highly unlikely that the Kingdom of Portugal would disappear just because they couldn't find anyone else with the surname "Afonso", don't you think?
    Fear not, crusader, Prester John will save you from the wrath of the Devil.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    Sounds interesting, but what happens when you got neither?

    However it does make some sense though, when the king dies without any heirs, a kingdom is likely to fall apart, not entirely, but partly anyway. I'm sure that distant regions or regions with a high amount of other religion(s) would take their chance to break free from your rule.

    So a good mod (or submod really) would be that, yes you do get a new dynasty but you would still loose some regions depending on distance from capitol, religious setting and rivalling generals, in order to get sime kind of simulation of a civil war.

  15. #15
    King Gambrinus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    It's highly unlikely, since the AI seems hardcoded to get generals when it is asked to.

    Well a small kingdom like Portugal would probably just designate a distant cousin or something, or the king named his successor on his death bed (See Edward the Confessor/Harold II). Maybe for a faction like the HRE you'd get a civil war, but they have plenty of family members.


    I think Stainless Steel and Eras : Total Conquest do it. I think it's part of a mod where you also have to crown your faction leader, etc... Begins with a B I think, can someone help me out?
    Fear not, crusader, Prester John will save you from the wrath of the Devil.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    Quote Originally Posted by risker View Post

    I think Stainless Steel and Eras : Total Conquest do it. I think it's part of a mod where you also have to crown your faction leader, etc... Begins with a B I think, can someone help me out?
    BGR maybe?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Super weird - faction just disappeared!

    The same has happened in the three Byzantine campaigns I have played. I always rush the Turks and take their capital (around turn 5) and Caesarea (around turn 7, the castle next to the capital). When I take the castle, the two remaining Turkish settlements turn rebel and the faction is destroyed. I guess that the only two family members have been sitting in the settlements I took over and caused the dynasty to die out.

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