Why Doesn't England have armed halberders?

[Spitfire -WONDERBOLT!]

I don't understand why England is limited to spears and bills, why doesn't it have a halberd unit with sheilds? Such a halberd unit was set up to be Henry VIII's body gaurd, and is still seen to day on cermonial duties.

Also why are there no gothic Knights with two handed swords? Such things DID exist in england, certinly in the tudor period, plus gothic knights were around since the wars of the roses, why are these no represnted in force in the game? Dose it simply stop too early, or is it simply inaccuarte?

[dannyalex]

think those units came for england after 1550 or more..think

[Spitfire -WONDERBOLT!]

think those units came for england after 1550 or more..think

1509 for healberders

they ceased to be on the battlefield in 1526:
http://www.royal.gov.uk/RoyalEventsa...menatArms.aspx

[Aeratus]

1509 for healberders

they ceased to be on the battlefield in 1526:
http://www.royal.gov.uk/RoyalEventsa...menatArms.aspx

Those are poleaxes, like the ones carried by the Dismounted English Knights, not Halberds.

[dannyalex]

there u have the first answer

[Spitfire -WONDERBOLT!]

So, it stopps before then? Damn it CA.

-I only got to 1350, then my comp crashed and I started over.

[Silverheart]

Those things happened too late, I think - the game stops at somewhere around, like, the year 1500 or something.

And there plenty of inaccuracies in this game, since it´s not exactly a historical documentary. Perhaps CA figured that England didn´t field enough halberd troops in reality to include them at all in the game, perhaps they figured England was already overpowered as it is.

[D00d]

You could find historical examples of just about any unit type being used by just about any faction. But would giving everyone everything make the game more interesting? Scotland with longbows? Heck, all factions would have muskets.

Factions are limited to their trademark units for the sake of variety. Let's just leave it at that.

[Highlander of Scotland]

scotland did use longbows alot. The type of bow did not differ because of the border. Just not as many as england but certainly more than France the real question is why dont scotland get gunpowder infantry and why aren't highland nobles missiles either ap or able to use stakes

[the new username]

england doesngt have any pike unit or halberds, that suk when u reach the late m2tw era

[Spitfire -WONDERBOLT!]

If you select ERA:all in custom battle and look in detal at lists of dead after the battle it says the date is 1525

I know they were never in force as a large combat unit as infantry, but there are few to no proper dismounted body guards, and I really like 'em, is it hard to add a unit?

and my link is wrong having read deeper, it says that they provided mounted escort.. :/ sorry.

Those are poleaxes, like the ones carried by the Dismounted English Knights, not Halberds.

Battle axes achally there too long for pole axes, but the are not halberds, and that was not thier historical weapeon anyway, they're not even infantry. But there were halberds, I've seen halberders played in tudor era wargames, they act like halberders, with halberds (a cross between spears and axes, not great weapons as pole axes are).

Plus in the wars of the roses BOTH side hired mercs from europe including pikemen and hand gunners, and cross bows.

[PrestigeX]

Bills - Halberd, Glaive , Pole-Axe -- etc etc..

It's all pretty much the same idea, a thrusting / chopping, and often hooking - able head on the end of a stick.

I think the names are interchangable most of the time, when they had been written down. Like some of the stuff I've read, will say "Bill" at a later date when it really would be more likely identified by most people as a "Halberd".

Neways, even that article about the Special Corps or whatever they're called -- says it's a "Battle-Axe" ...?

As for the game, england doesn't need a halberd unit when they have 4 different Bill units. The mistake CA made was by making the bills so friggin tiny. They had it PERFECT in the original Mtw - the billmen were simillar to the halberd units, carrying a longer pole-arm - I believe they were a little less effective against armor, more effective against horsemen, good morale, and a little quicker on the move.

The Bill units should have been made with a large bill-head, and a longer shaft -- and be a derivative of Halberd Militia -- the same as how the French have "Voulgiers" -- its the same deal as Halberd but a lil different in terms of tech-tree / stats -- same should have been done with England, instead of these impotent 3 foot miniature Dentist Implement that they seem to be using lol

[Spitfire -WONDERBOLT!]

Bills - Halberd, Glaive , Pole-Axe -- etc etc..

It's all pretty much the same idea, a thrusting / chopping, and often hooking - able head on the end of a stick.

I think the names are interchangable most of the time, when they had been written down. Like some of the stuff I've read, will say "Bill" at a later date when it really would be more likely identified by most people as a "Halberd".

Neways, even that article about the Special Corps or whatever they're called -- says it's a "Battle-Axe" ...?

As for the game, england doesn't need a halberd unit when they have 4 different Bill units. The mistake CA made was by making the bills so friggin tiny. They had it PERFECT in the original Mtw - the billmen were simillar to the halberd units, carrying a longer pole-arm - I believe they were a little less effective against armor, more effective against horsemen, good morale, and a little quicker on the move.

The Bill units should have been made with a large bill-head, and a longer shaft -- and be a derivative of Halberd Militia -- the same as how the French have "Voulgiers" -- its the same deal as Halberd but a lil different in terms of tech-tree / stats -- same should have been done with England, instead of these impotent 3 foot miniature Dentist Implement that they seem to be using lol

Halberd can be used as spears to push the enemy back rather than just chop them down as they are long enough.

Why do they have four bill units? Were two would be suffice! Then we could have had halberds and pikemen and crossbows if there were only one damned spearman, or one generals bodyguard, why are there two?

[Emperor of The Great Unknown]

Halberd can be used as spears to push the enemy back rather than just chop them down as they are long enough.

Why do they have four bill units? Were two would be suffice! Then we could have had halberds and pikemen and crossbows if there were only one damned spearman, or one generals bodyguard, why are there two?

Early bodyguard late bodyguard. Militia bill-men, trained bill-men with 2 sets of armor based on era.

[Spitfire -WONDERBOLT!]

Early bodyguard late bodyguard. Militia bill-men, trained bill-men with 2 sets of armor based on era.

Yep, but why cant you just have one, or two billmen and use experance, and armour upgrade to create the same effect? is it something to do with the games engine?

[Deceneus]

Halberd can be used as spears to push the enemy back rather than just chop them down as they are long enough.

Why do they have four bill units? Were two would be suffice! Then we could have had halberds and pikemen and crossbows if there were only one damned spearman, or one generals bodyguard, why are there two?

The Bill WAS the English version of a Halberd. They were indeed the same length weapon as was mentioned by a previous poster. The term "Bills and Bows" was the English version of a call to arms. The English never really went to the pikes. When other nations started using early firearms and pikes, the English stayed with the longbow and Bill.

There was also two main versions of the Bill, a brown and black version. The brown was brown because it consisted of more iron and was a peasant weapon. The higher quality Bill was a match for the Halberd and the Welsh Hook was one of the most feared weapons during that time. Though nobody today really knows what the Welsh Hook variety really was. We just know it was lighter and faster than a standard Bill.

No idea why anyone would think the Bill was a three foot weapon. There was a short peasant tool that length, also used in India as a weapon during a later period. However, the standard Bill was around 6 foot.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

EDIT:

One other thing I failed to mention. No way should an English General's bodyguard unit fight with a Bill. Bills and Bows were landowner weapons. They just weren't aristocratic weapons. The Generals from the aristocracy would all be "tin can" knights using swords. Any version of a "hand and a half" sword would do...

[Spitfire -WONDERBOLT!]

The Bill WAS the English version of a Halberd. They were indeed the same length weapon as was mentioned by a previous poster. The term "Bills and Bows" was the English version of a call to arms. The English never really went to the pikes. When other nations started using early firearms and pikes, the English stayed with the longbow and Bill.

There was also two main versions of the Bill, a brown and black version. The brown was brown because it consisted of more iron and was a peasant weapon. The higher quality Bill was a match for the Halberd and the Welsh Hook was one of the most feared weapons during that time. Though nobody today really knows what the Welsh Hook variety really was. We just know it was lighter and faster than a standard Bill.

No idea why anyone would think the Bill was a three foot weapon. There was a short peasant tool that length, also used in India as a weapon during a later period. However, the standard Bill was around 6 foot.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

EDIT:

One other thing I failed to mention. No way should an English General's bodyguard unit fight with a Bill. Bills and Bows were landowner weapons. They just weren't aristocratic weapons. The Generals from the aristocracy would all be "tin can" knights using swords. Any version of a "hand and a half" sword would do...

BLOODY GOOD POST, But in the Wars of the roses there were hired pikes... but I take your point... perhaps in med three we shall see such things as hand and a half swords, I will rep you later!

[Nazgûl Killer]

Regardless of happening too late or not, there is also game balance to be considered. England has incredible units as it is (Those crazy English Knights, the amazing Armored Swordsmen and the crazy Retinue Longbowmen), it doesn't need any more.

Likewise you could ask "Why don't the Danes have any spears?", while they have incredible heavy infantry unit that none can rival. It's simple balancing issues I believe.

[The Kybrothilian]

You could find historical examples of just about any unit type being used by just about any faction. But would giving everyone everything make the game more interesting? Scotland with longbows? Heck, all factions would have muskets.

Factions are limited to their trademark units for the sake of variety. Let's just leave it at that.

Regardless of happening too late or not, there is also game balance to be considered. England has incredible units as it is (Those crazy English Knights, the amazing Armored Swordsmen and the crazy Retinue Longbowmen), it doesn't need any more.

Likewise you could ask "Why don't the Danes have any spears?", while they have incredible heavy infantry unit that none can rival. It's simple balancing issues I believe.

These are the answers you're looking for.

[Jackster]

The only thing they should have gotten is the armoured sergeant, there is a frickin Norman version afterall.
Thankfully, most mods add them to the English roster.