Roman Campaign 0 Turn

[wardyuc]

This is wardy checking in. I have just started my campaign now.
Initial thoughts are having looked up a starting traits people begin with i love the new additions, especially the idea of senatorial elections. Will certainly spice things up.
However three questions.
1) How much of a financial boost will a governor character recieve from becoming a senator or is it purely for show. For example will it make them likely to get better management skills, gain more from taxation or have a large estate.
2) How large an effect will failing to return to italy for the elections have on my chances of ellection. And also, why should i am for my generals to become senators. Is this purely for roleplay ?
3) How will a character be chosen for nomination. If my father was a senator will i be ect.

In terms of the actualy campaign. Right now i am fighting hanibal as a type this and i cannot help but notice that his slingers were able to take out 7% of my 3.6k army. That is quite a lot of missile damage. Has there been any modifications in that regards or am i just trying to find something that is not there.


So far so good.
I have made a killsheet which i will be using to record alll my battles and dates with the faction that i fought and the casualities i recieved. This should give a clear idea of who is over powered and who is too easy ect.
I tend to expand rather slowly so will that be a problem or should we try to rush through and cover as much as we can.


Thanks for the opportunity to help test this. I have added my killsheet here if anyone wants to use.

[wardyuc]

Double post please delete this

[wardyuc]

Ok time for an update.

Macedonia seems active enough for me. I have already beat back 2 stacks for them there. The balance seems ok i am using allied legions and obviously they take easy losses.

I must say i like the new building system, although if someone could post a build tree i think it would be very useful as it took me a while to get to know why i couldnt get the buildings in all my cities.


I don't think Carthage is done justice. I lost to carthage in the starting battle which meant that they were free to take Ariminum, but Hannibal stayed there and their stacks brokedown. I do not know how but i know
Five Good Emperors submod has a much more agressive Carthage faction. In all these years i have only fought 8000 Carthaginians which i do not think is enough on 0 turn huge.


This image is just to showcase finance. I think finances are done perfectly. I have enough money to have to think about my military expense, but also i have to also plan my expansion which is a great balance.


The only problem i can see is that there are multiple families going at the same time, and we can only see one family tree. But i assume that is hardcoded.

In terms of bugs i have no really spoted any. Then again i havent been playing to much. I should be able to put in hours now though.

[chris10]

I don't think Carthage is done justice. I lost to carthage in the starting battle which meant that they were free to take Ariminum, but Hannibal stayed there and their stacks brokedown. I do not know how but i know Five Good Emperors submod has a much more agressive Carthage faction. In all these years i have only fought 8000 Carthaginians which i do not think is enough on 0 turn huge.

ok..I have some time right now so I will try to explain this:
There are several facts influencing the AI behaviour:
1. The recruitment setting in the descr_strat.txt has only a minor influence
2. Factions are randomly set to relative passive or aggressive on each reload
3. Even though a faction gets loaded as aggressive it doesnt necessarily mean that it will act aggressive in the case it has not enough ressources (manpower and money)
4. On the other hand. A passive loaded faction may act even aggressive in case it has enough money and manpower to afford enough troops and another faction where it shares borders with looks weak enough

Confusing ?...naaah...there is a logic behind this

The most important factor on AI faction aggressiveness is MANPOWER/MONEY and DEVELOPEMENT of its citys to recruit high tier troops. So its the question if there are enough ressources to go to war or not.If these 3 things are given an AI faction will be at loggerheads and push forward no matter what.

Now what can be done in oder to use this knowledge for a better balancing ?
Here is what I have done in FGE:
1. Fixing the population monitors for the constantly drained settlements on the map. Now these citys do develope in order to help their faction. The monitors stop to give bonuses after 3rd city level
2. I gave a 40%, 30%, 20% bonus on construction time and cost for the first 3 city levels to the ai factions to assure their citys develope quicker cause the player had always the edge in this
3. I gave the AI a growth bonus for the first 3 city levels cause players citys always grow a lot faster then AI citys due to active planning and interfering of a human player. This has been leveled out.
4. AI can recruit 1 silver chevron and 2 silver chevron units from 1st and 2nd city level
5. Removing the money caps for all AI factions. Economy is irrelevant for AI factions as it is only canned bahaviour which doesnt work and can not react dynamicly. The AI fations are there to provide a challenge and not to work according real life and getting stemarolled.

Now with these 5 points I changed the mathematic odds drastically and things look a lot brighter from the perspective of an AI faction and its more inclined to attack even a strong Player cause mathematically It could have the edge in developement and enough money and manpower...its all down to the mathematical conditions and rellations...better odds > attack

6. I changed the money cap system to expansion: Giving money to AI factions when down to 3 or less settlements and taking money away when (depending on faction) becoming to big.
7. As well I scripted emergency armys/units depending on faction and enemy coming every 2, 3 or 4 turns when down to < 3 settlements.

Points 6 and 7 are to prevent a bit the superfaction forming..sometimes it works pretty good and sometimes not...this will never be solved totally

To answer wardyuc question. AI factions are a lot more aggressive when they have stockpiled ressources, manpower and developed citys. Therefore its not recommendable to have money caps for AI Factions and for the Player..well..I have best experience with the money monitor script I have written for FGE and which is based on expansion. For each Settlement the Player has in control he gets a money drain depending on the importance of the Settlement ...this can be 1000,2000,5000,10000 up to 20000 (this for FGE)...this concept is easy, the script simple and its idiot proof to tweak even by people who have no clue

IMO each campaign should carry his own modfoldered backgroundscript and EDB amended towards the Faction to be played. More work...maybes...but the game balance is immeasurably better and can be tweaked easier in case there is the need to.
Same goes for a modfoldered EDU...this is little additional effort but with great effect as it allows to make the maintenance and recruitment of the Players Faction specific exlusive units a lot more expensive. This helps greatly in economy balancing too.
In FGE I raised recruitment and maintenance of exlusive roman units considerably to great success for balancing without harming AI recruitment.

Hope this helps


.

[tone]

Great - thanks for the update.

I've personally run the early parts of the Roman campaign on 0 turn and my feeling is that it's just a bit too easy finance-wise on H/H - it's just too easy to build more armies and I like that knot in the stomach feeling you get when all doesn't go well....in fact that's despite losing some battles and so on.

I agree about Carthage needing a little more umph though.

[wardyuc]

Great - thanks for the update.

I've personally run the early parts of the Roman campaign on 0 turn and my feeling is that it's just a bit too easy finance-wise on H/H - it's just too easy to build more armies and I like that knot in the stomach feeling you get when all doesn't go well....in fact that's despite losing some battles and so on.

I agree about Carthage needing a little more umph though.

I think the money is ok right now. I have 4 stacks right now, and i make 30k a turn profit. Of that i need to develop my cities as only 6 can build armies. Of those only 1 has true roman soldiers. I know if i wanted i could concentrate on military forces and rush the north my flagship legion has the experience to take 2-3 stacks down it self.

This is why i think Carthage or at least Belgae should be made stronger. I only have to worry about macedonia right now, i think if there was a lasting northern threat, then there would be no worry about players abusing roman finances.


In terms of traits, almost every turn i get the notice about senate elections. However they have not had a huge impact on my game style. Perhaps i have not paid enough attention on traits enough as i was trying to check for bugs /missing units.

[Ybbon]

If you made the Romans harder money wise would that restrict them when the AI plays, they appear to expand very quickly towards the Belgae and Arverni? They certainly don't appear to have any problem with Carthage or the rebels in Northern Italy.

[NerZhulen]

Well about this, I would recommend making the armies in spain and greece smaller, because all you have to do is to transport them to Italy right on start and hannibal and rebelion are piece of cake.

[wardyuc]

Well about this, I would recommend making the armies in spain and greece smaller, because all you have to do is to transport them to Italy right on start and hannibal and rebelion are piece of cake.

I disagree. While some people, heck if not most people will do that. Some of us enjoy the added challenge of trying to keep those places especially with your forces stretched over such a large space.

With the roman compaign it is easy to abuse if that is what you seek, but it is also challenging if you make it. So i think that choice should remain up to the player.

[dvk901]

Ok, I decreased the Roman income a 'bit'......I'll just adjust it down a bit at a time until we're happy with it. I also increased Carthage, the Arverni, Belgae and Boii.

[tone]

Ok, I decreased the Roman income a 'bit'......I'll just adjust it down a bit at a time until we're happy with it. I also increased Carthage, the Arverni, Belgae and Boii.

Have you already updloaded those changes?

[dvk901]

Sorry, I have now. Got busy today and forgot.

[tone]

Just a little explanation of the new equestrian and plebeian careers. This is how the paths look. In reality we will make this equestrian pathway only available post Marian reforms, although for testing purposes it's present from the start:



Career progression will be speeded up by gaining military decorations (though these don't seem to be particularly forthcoming for me at the moment - I think I've only ever earned one or two decorations maximum - anyone else with different experiences?)....again for testing purposes we've speeded up the career progression - it's probably time to slow this all down to real game speed (equestrians will only move up their career ladded every 5 years, though this would be speeded up by gaining a decoration).

You will see that once equestrians (or plebeians who have gained equestrian status) have reached the higher careers they can transfer between the military and civilian ladders depending on whether they are inside or outside a settlement.

Praefectus praetorio is only available to an equestrian who has reached the higher careers and is commanding a Praetorian legion.

Adlection becomes increasingly likely with advancement and opens up senatorial positions. There are therefore two ways for an equestrian to reach a senatorial position:

1) Through his civilian career (judicial or publicani), by rising to the top

2) Through the military career in post-Marian times by rising through the tres militae (Praefectus cohortis, Tribunus, Praefectus alae) and then taking a procuratorship, rather than staying in the military - in the game this would be by becoming the governor of a city

[rory o'kane]

Ye Gods, this is exciting. It's great to see a career traits system that reflects the way people climbed the social ladder of Ancient Rome incorporated into RTW.
One small thing - is it possible to make it so that a Praefectus Castrorum can go straight into the Civil Equestrain careers ladder? As I understand it, the Praefectus Castrorum was a veteran centurion who would usually retire from military service after his term as Praefectus Castrorum was up, so giving them immediate access to the civil careers (triggered, say, by going to a city rather than remaining in the field, perhaps?) would make sense. If this is unfeasible, then no worries, it's an amazing achievement all the same.

[tone]

I'm pretty sure that happens already and I've just missed the arrow off there, but I'll check.

[tone]

Yes, that is the case.

On another note, we ought to change the trigger for corona triumphalis to make it triggered by the same triggers that trigger a triumph - it was basically at the time of the triumph (but unlike the triumph itself, is something that will be kept as a trait)

[dvk901]

These were the Triumph triggers in Vanilla....

;------------------------------------------
Trigger triumphs1
WhenToTest GeneralCaptureSettlement

Condition not CultureType roman

Affects VictorOthersVirtue 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger triumphs2
WhenToTest GeneralCaptureSettlement

Condition CultureType roman

Affects VictorRomanVirtue 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger triumphs3
WhenToTest GeneralCaptureWonder

Condition not CultureType roman

Affects VictorOthersVirtue 5 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger triumphs4
WhenToTest GeneralCaptureWonder

Condition CultureType roman

Affects VictorRomanVirtue 5 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger triumphs5
WhenToTest LeaderDestroyedFaction

Condition not CultureType roman

Affects VictorOthersVirtue 10 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger triumphs6
WhenToTest LeaderDestroyedFaction

Condition CultureType roman

Affects VictorRomanVirtue 10 Chance 100

But I think we would need more conditions as they are either inapplicable or too easy?

[tone]

....but you put in new triumph triggers I thought? e.g. Hispaniensis, etc, etc?

[dvk901]

Do you mean the 'Conqueror' traits\triggers, where you individually conquer a certain area...Spain, Greece, Gaul, etc.?
Yes, I hadn't thought of that. Various triggers could be used so that if you have gained one of those you get 'corona triumphalis'.

[tone]

Yes, that's what I mean.