Consulate of Corvenus and Lurco - 483AVC

[Lord Slayer]

Servius looked at the Carthaginian" How do we know that you will live up to your word on peace. Had your people not betrayed Rome once before ?. have you not funded Pirates with your money to raid our shipping lanes ?. "

[War lord]

We have no intent to harm the citizens of any state, provided of course that they do not resist us. If Carthage will not relinquish control of Sardinia, then Rome cannot possibly surrender control of Messana.

[Nota']

I am aware that the Messana pirates possesed Punic weaponry and equipment. They purchased that equipment from private Carthaginian companies, and the Carthaginian goverment does not make a habit of restricting the clients of these private companies. It is regretable that these weapons have caused the spilling of so much blood, Carthage herself did not provide them.

[Lord Slayer]

Servius listened to the Carthaginian " Why does Your government allow this to go on. Knowing that these pirates are harming merchant vessels ?. Since they are your Companies. Does your government not control them and tell them who they can sell to and who they can not ?. Because it seems your government does not care what your people sell. Even if it harms your relations with other nations. "

Servius sipped his wine before speaking" Have you given any reason why we should trust you Carthaginian ?. After all your people broke a treaty between us did they not ? "

[War lord]

I am aware that the Messana pirates possesed Punic weaponry and equipment. They purchased that equipment from private Carthaginian companies, and the Carthaginian goverment does not make a habit of restricting the clients of these private companies. It is regretable that these weapons have caused the spilling of so much blood, Carthage herself did not provide them.

Then one of your companies is stealing from the state armories, the weapons were stamped with the seal of the Carthaginian republic.

[Kubrick]

Marcus grunted in approval. Finally they where getting somewhere, he gestured a scribe and asked for a piece of parchment to write on. When he got it he started writing down the counter-proposal he heard. This way he hoped to get another step further. He then stood up and approached the diplomat. He put out his hand at the diplomat and spoke quietly, so only he and the diplomat could hear it.

'Under these bitter circumstances I still wish to introduce myself. Marcus Sempronius Sophus, senator of Rome. I hope we can get to an agreement that profits both our nations.' Before the diplomat could answer he turned around, holding out his piece of parchment, to address the Senate.

'Fellow senators, I have taken the liberty to write down a proposal and I wish to hear your opinions about it. I am sure that the gentlemen that wish for war will think otherwise when they are cooled down. They must know that we are not surrendering, nor are the Carthaginians. We are civilized nations coming to an agreement, it is how things work. Now onto the proposed agreement which would profit both Rome and Carthage!'

Peace Treaty, 483AVC.

- The nations of Rome and Carthage will cease to be at war.

- The nations of Rome and Carthage will enter an alliance.

- The nations of Rome and Carthage will trade resources.

- The city of Syracuse will be ceded to Carthage.

- The city of Messana will remain under Roman authority.

- The island of Corsica will be ceded to Rome.

- Iberia will be in the Carthaginian sphere of influence.

- The Roman Navy will be restrained to one modest fleet.

When finished reading he paused to breath, only for a few seconds.

'So, I wish to hear the opinions of my fellow senators.' He turned to the diplomat. 'And of course from our Carthaginian friend here.'

OOC: If I missed any points, please say so.

[CK23]

"Senator Sohpus...my fellow Plebeian...if you bow to these demands I will see it as treason to Roma and it's people." Faustus turned to Senator Sophus. "If anyone bows to these demands...they are betraying Roma."

[Maiar93]

Flavius looked at Imperious, and he was relievd he had even one man who supported his point of view.

If any of you is able to agree on these terms, you could as well jump to the carthaginian side! Or are you all bought by their foul gold? What has gone into you, romans, why do you want to surrender willingly against an enemy that has beaten a mere skirmish force? If they suffered such casualties against skirmishers, what would they suffer against a legion? No, they are scared. They wish to fool us, scare us to agree into foolish terms. If there will be peace, it should be on even terms.

[Kubrick]

Marcus jumped up and pointed at Corvenus.

'Corvenus, my boy, you are really not in the position to speak like this. You can say it is a mere skirmisher force, that it was nothing compared to a real Roman army. But tell the parents of those boys. Tell the wives of those men.'

While speaking he had walked closer to Corvenus, so close that he whispered the following in his ear. 'Flavius, is this what your dear father would have wanted? This is not a surrender, Roman territory will even be larger. Think about it, friend.'

He then turned away and looked at Imperious.
'Dear Imperious, my good friend. How is a fair arrangement between two nations betraying Rome? We will profit as much from this as the Carthaginians will. We lost enough fine soldiers out there, we should end the bloodshed. We are lucky that the Carthaginians are wise enough to think the same way. Stop thinking about war, too many great men could never stop thinking about war. Now they lay in a grave, forgotten.'

After finishing speaking he turned and walked back to his seat. Slightly mad at the two men.

[Maiar93]

Flavius went back in his thought. 'What would have my father wanted?' 'He was a drunkard, nothing but a collapsed man', a voice uttered inside him. 'But he still was a great man, rich, wise, always thinking the best of Rome.', another voice uttered.

This is not a surrender, i agree. But if we agree on his terms - we have doomed ourselves. I request no restrictions and no land trade, only plain ceasefire.

[Kubrick]

Marcus thought about Titus, Corvenus' late father. He had known him for years, it was sad how some people ended in the world. He hoped the emotional influence would help to guide Corvenus to his opinion. Emotions can be very strong sometimes..

'Dear Consul, the restrictions are symbolic. Currently we don't even have a seaworthy fleet of battleships, only transports. A fleet only costs money and gives us no profit. Let the Poenii spend money on that.' He smiled sinisterly. The Poenii would always field a mighty fleet and a mighty fleet costs huge amounts of money. They could spend it more wisely on armies. Deep inside he knew this was not the last Punic War, one day they would be at war once more. It was fate.

'As for the trade, it only profits Rome. We can certainly use the fine quality grain that grows in the fruitful earth of Africa. And ofcourse fine Punic citizens have an eye for the many great products from Rome. I see no reason why you would not want to trade with Carthage. But alas, we can always remove that from the treaty.'

[Maiar93]

Well.. i guess that's good bye for good roman values. But there will be time when Carthage is on fire..

That is, if they willingly agree. Let us hear the diplomat for a moment then. In my opinion we should not trade any land, Sicily is too far valuable to be given away freely, instead we should focus on the naval restrictions and trade via ceasefire. For now..

[War lord]

We keep the straits of Messana and we gain Corsica, in return restrictions are placed on the fleet we don't have. I think it is a excellent agreement, considering our position.

[Maiar93]

He looked to Caldius.

And lose Syracuse? My fellow senator, the city is ten times more valuable than the whole island of Corsica. If you wish to weaken Rome greatly, go on, then we know what you truely are.

[Nota']

I was instructed by the senate to do my upmost to make sure that Rome and Carthage do not share a border, as it is considered that any borders would be likely flashpoints that would start another unprofitable war. It is for this reason that I ask that Carthage possess all of Sicily. Is there anything Rome has want of other than land, perhaps gold would be enough compensation for that minor city of Messana?

[Kubrick]

Not good.. Not good at all.. Sicily was a very important island. Carthage couldn't just demand that.. He rose and spoke to the diplomat.

'My dear Carthaginian friend, your terms are very harsh I must say. The wilderness of Corsica can not match giving up our foothold in Sicily. And gold? Gold we have plenty! If Carthage wishes the whole of Sicily for herself, Rome should be granted the island of Sardinia. The isles of Sardinia and Corsica will assure we can trade properly, and complete control of Sicily will assure great amounts of wealth for Carthage.'

[Nota']

*Spurius Geminius Scaeva entered the senate in time to here the consul's last comment.*
Of course Flavius you would know all about weakening Rome wouldn't you? Remind me, how many of Rome's best men did you kill? We wouldn't be facing such unfavourable demands if we still had an army! Personally I would relinquish Syracuse as quickly as possible before that tyrant forms a rebellion. Let Carthage deal with the stubborn greeks, I'm sure that Syracuse will be independent once more within the decade. As for Messana, well if you can call that a city, isn't much of a city since the pirates left and Flavius' legions have had a few nights fun. Is maintaining that decrepid town worth another war with Carthage? Perhaps... However I am sure with those defences the Roman army; the one about to be filled with new recruits, not soothing of ideas; would have no problem retaking it.

*Spurius re-reads the Carthaginian demands, raising an eyebrow at trade restrictions, sphere of influence in iberia.*
In addition to the gaining of Corsica, I think we should be recompensed for our losses, say 30 000 mnai, perhaps more? After all recovering from a war is not cheap. Otherwise the other conditions seem fair enough for the time being. We are not trading with the diadochi are we? Do we really want to expand into Africa or Iberia, with no land route to support the army? Why we would have to rely on the Roman navy. As for the navy, it is currently made up of 'borrowed' merchant ships, do we really intend to invest that much gold in building a navy that can even begin to compete with the greeks or the Carthaginians?

[Maiar93]

Flavius looked at Spurius.

The city is very rich and well off. Nothing will compensate our foothold in Sicily, as the island is very rich. My legions had no few nights fun. What would you know, you who sat in his domus and did nothing but watch.

[War lord]

You already burned half of Syracuse to the ground, after they gave up I might add, and now your telling me we shouldn't give up Sicily because you want to pillage it? And "your" legions? Where are your legions? The only Legions I know of belong to the senate.

[Maiar93]

Fool.

I do not want to argue with a troublemaker, and even more, with a roman. You have already destroyed your reputation; you argue with the Consul and try to cause more trouble when we should stand united against the punics!