Brother of Karzai Killed

[6644kp]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14118884

The half-brother of Afghan President Hamid Karzai has been assassinated in Kandahar, officials say.
Ahmad Wali Karzai, leader of the Kandahar Provincial Council and a key figure, was shot dead, presidential spokesmen Waheed Omar told the BBC.
Early reports said he was shot at his Kandahar home by his bodyguard; an Afghan politician later said he was killed as he tried to enter the provincial council building.
The Taliban has claimed responsibility.

People were saying he was a part of the problem maybe now he's dead some better can step in but that would be unlikely with the corrupt culture of Afghanistan.

[King Gambrinus]

I'm not sure what to make of Hamid Karzai. He reminds of Mubarak in so many ways, but that may be a good thing for the Afghans at the present time.

[Principe Alessandro]

Nothing to be sad, it was just another drug trader.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

Another drug dealer dead. The horror.

[The Noble Lord]

The "big man of Kandahar" is killed, not a happy or joyous occasion. Despite being a one of the major drug traffickers in the South, he was also crucial in pacifying the Kandahari Pashtuns ans making peace and mediating between the government and the Pashtun tribes and in some cases the Taliban. This is certainly bad development for the Karzai, Afghan government, ISAF and Pashtun people of the South. This will lead to some level of destabilization of the military and political situation down there and also it may lead to the resurgence of the Taliban. Furthermore, the Popalzai tribe to which he and Karzai belong to will get weaker undoubtedly which would
make enemies of Afghan government stronger. Not good at all!
As for the question who killed him, it could've been number of suspects. Taliban, Hezbi-Islami, Haqani group, rival drug lord, rival Pashtun tribe, or just a dispute between the Kandaharis which are very common and bloody at best.

[Burnum]

I'm going to have too agree with The Noble Lord, this is not good news. He may have been a drug dealing scumbag, but helped hold Kandahar together. With threats of violence and a lot of money, he kept the violent recriminations to a minimum. Everyman and his dog knows that there is nothing to stop from doing what he wants now.

[Admiral Piett]

Is it possible one of the more popular local warlords could try to take his place?

[Burnum]

Is it possible one of the more popular local warlords could try to take his place?

Their is Abdul Razziq, the local police chief, he's got the money and guns to takeover. But it would be incredibly detrimental to the stability of the region, he's basically a violent and ruthless thug who will very likely try to kill anyone who would threaten his position. It's also very likely it would drive his enemies straight into the arms of the Taliban.

[Admiral Piett]

Their is Abdul Razziq, the local police chief, he's got the money and guns to takeover. But it would be incredibly detrimental to the stability of the region, he's basically a violent and ruthless thug who will very likely try to kill anyone who would threaten his position. It's also very likely it would drive his enemies straight into the arms of the Taliban.

Damn, sounds like bad news if he gets ambitious.

I was wondering if that one popular warlord might make a bid. The one that was actually fairly benelovent (at least compared to the others), I forget his name... This isn't him, but we need more guys like this guy. His entire life story is epic. I hear there are some old warlords that are a lot less barbaric than Taliban and a lot less corrupt than the central government.

[Burnum]

Damn, sounds like bad news if he gets ambitious.

I was wondering if that one popular warlord might make a bid. The one that was actually fairly benelovent (at least compared to the others), I forget his name...

I'm personally not aware of any warlord in Afghanistan that could be described as 'benevolent.'

[Admiral Piett]

I'm personally not aware of any warlord in Afghanistan that could be described as 'benevolent.'

Yeah, I wish I could remember the guy's name. I remember him being spoken of a while back in a news story of being a thorn in the side of the Afghan government while at the same time having very bad relations with the Taliban.

[Burnum]

This isn't him, but we need more guys like this guy. His entire life story is epic. I hear there are some old warlords that are a lot less barbaric than Taliban and a lot less corrupt than the central government.

Despite what the other people on this board may believe, Massoud was not a hero or even a good man. He was a ing Warlord, with everything that implies. He was a monster, like Fahim, Haqqani, Sayyaf, Hekmatyar and Dostum.

[Captain Jin]

The more scary thing is that he was shot by his head of security who worked for him for seven years and wa reputedly his most trusted guard... so why did this happen? What made the man betray and kill his leader? Even though Taliban claimed responsibility I don't really buy that.

[hellheaven1987]

The more scary thing is that he was shot by his head of security who worked for him for seven years and wa reputedly his most trusted guard... so why did this happen? What made the man betray and kill his leader? Even though Taliban claimed responsibility I don't really buy that.

May be Taliban already infiltrate into security force long ago... Lets hope ANA would not desert in mass once ISAF left...

[mrmouth]

The US tried to remove him from power, and Karzai insulated him well enough that he kept his job. They must have had a good amount on him to do something like that. So who knows what the guy was involved in, and yeah, the Taliban might not have been involved at all. But that is the beauty of their position in being able to simply claim responsibility for things.

Ive seen interviews with this guy in the past and it very much seemed that he was muscled pretty good when responding to questions about the US allegations, and how he kept his job. I wouldnt at all be surprised if it was similar to the ultimatum given to tribal leaders in Iraq just before thy got on board-

I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes, if you with me, I'll kill you all - USMC General James Mattis

The drawback is that this guy, by whatever means, kept the tribes and warlords from fighting one another. Who knows how or why he was able to control them. If they end up fighting one another, that is obviously bad. But who knows, they might get on board with us. Maybe this guys reign was so duplicitous that it kept them from cooperating more effectively with us.

I mean, that is the holy grail in Kandahar. Getting the bigwigs to come to our side and actively fight the Taliban. Up until this point all Karzai's brother had was a militia that did more money collecting and intimidation, than fighting.

It is just way too early to see if this is a good or bad thing.

[Burnum]

The US tried to remove him from power, and Karzai insulated him well enough that he kept his job

That's utterly . They made some half-hearted attempts, more like whining really. If they really wanted him gone, they could of nailed him.

The drawback is that this guy, by whatever means, kept the tribes and warlords from fighting one another. Who knows how or why he was able to control them. If they end up fighting one another, that is obviously bad. But who knows, they might get on board with us. Maybe this guys reign was so duplicitous that it kept them from cooperating more effectively with us.

That's as about as likely as the Taliban renouncing violence and becoming pacifists.

Show me some evidence of this then. He may not be someone that I want for a mayor of my city, but for Afghanistan, for the region he was in I'd hardly say he was anything near a monster. He was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, is considered a hero of Afghanistan and I don't see many controversies against him. In fact he seemed quite heroic in his war against the Soviets, even going as far as evacuating civilians from their homes to prevent them from being killed by Soviet attacks he knew were coming. He risk his life and his men's lives to get that done and he was successful. Also I haven't read much of him indiscriminately killing civilians in mass, bombing government buildings or acting out in other terrorist style fashion.

the Afshar Campaign

The Wikipedia article tries to put the blame on Sayyaf, but the truth is that the Jamiat were equally culpable for the crimes

[Captain Jin]

That's utterly . They made some half-hearted attempts, more like whining really. If they really wanted him gone, they could of nailed him.

Yes I can only see the backlash we would have gotten had we removed a governor of a province, half brother to the President, in a sovereign country. Yeah, we could have nailed him, but it wouldn't have been a good idea to do so. So you can't really complain that we didn't.

[mrmouth]

That's utterly . They made some half-hearted attempts, more like whining really. If they really wanted him gone, they could of nailed him.

That's as about as likely as the Taliban renouncing violence and becoming pacifists.

What do you base any of that on? Just talking out of your ass? Nothing you say is adding up from a common sense standpoint, let alone historical fact.

The US/UK complained about AWK's duplicitous nature, but couldn't really find anything to stick. You really think they were half-assing attempts to remove a guy who very likely had the blood of US military personnel on his hands? They certainly didn't do that in Iraq.

It was very likely the same situation. Sit for tea in the morning, and kill this guys henchmen and partners by night. After failing to try and remove him because Hamid Karzai insulated him so well, he was likely given the same ultimatum as the tribal leaders in Iraq. Cooperate or die.

As pious as everyone pretends to be, money still rules in the Muslim world, no matter how legitimately third world a country might be. Possibly even more in those cases. Its a nice stance for anyone trying to criticize the US, to argue that the only way we can get anything done is by shelling out money, but that is the reality of the world. None of these idiots have the best interests of there countries at heart, and that is why they have always been the door mat of the world.

These warlords and tribal leaders just lost their meal ticket. Either they side with the Taliban more completely, or they go where the money really is. Where the money was ultimately coming from anyhow. And they ultimately know what the outcome of this whole thing is. They have to turn over and play grab-ass with us at some point, or they just go back to fighting for the foreseeable future.

And it will be interesting to see what Hamid does. This could be a slap back to reality.


EDIT:

So the story is becoming a bit clearer now. The killer was a loyal commander (commanded 100 men and police checkpoints) under Ahmed Karzai, not technically a bodyguard. He was apparently so close to the family that he was allowed into the family residence. The killer requested time alone and shot him immediately thereafter. Nobody accepts the Taliban claims. This sounds like a dispute over god knows what. And someone related to him says he was using drugs.

This reminds me of a story last year here where I live, where two Latino men were found shot in a trunk. The family wanted it known that they were good people. Good people dont typically end up in a trunk with one bullet to the back of the head. In the end, everyone learned they were not good people.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/13/wo...3kandahar.html

[Captain Jin]

May be Taliban already infiltrate into security force long ago... Lets hope ANA would not desert in mass once ISAF left...

That just doesn't seem very likely to me. Why wait seven years to make your move then? The Taliban claim they 'hired him' as part of an operation, but again that seems dubious to me... especially considering how he went about killing him. He walks into the man's room and shoots him twice as he is exiting his bathroom and then is killed by other bodyguards. What was the incentive to 'hire' him if he's just going to bust some half-assed plan that gets him killed. I don't know. It just doesn't seem like Taliban to me. And I don't see the ANA mass deserting if ISAF leaves either.

Despite what the other people on this board may believe, Massoud was not a hero or even a good man. He was a ing Warlord, with everything that implies. He was a monster, like Fahim, Haqqani, Sayyaf, Hekmatyar and Dostum.

Show me some evidence of this then. He may not be someone that I want for a mayor of my city, but for Afghanistan, for the region he was in I'd hardly say he was anything near a monster. He was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, is considered a hero of Afghanistan and I don't see many controversies against him. In fact he seemed quite heroic in his war against the Soviets, even going as far as evacuating civilians from their homes to prevent them from being killed by Soviet attacks he knew were coming. He risk his life and his men's lives to get that done and he was successful. Also I haven't read much of him indiscriminately killing civilians in mass, bombing government buildings or acting out in other terrorist style fashion.

[hellheaven1987]

That just doesn't seem very likely to me. Why wait seven years to make your move then? The Taliban claim they 'hired him' as part of an operation, but again that seems dubious to me... especially considering how he went about killing him. He walks into the man's room and shoots him twice as he is exiting his bathroom and then is killed by other bodyguards. What was the incentive to 'hire' him if he's just going to bust some half-assed plan that gets him killed. I don't know. It just doesn't seem like Taliban to me. And I don't see the ANA mass deserting if ISAF leaves either.

Well we probably would never know whether he is a sleeping cell of Taliban or not, but remember that to remain undetected for years is exactly what sleeping cells good about.