Heretics

**caralampio** · July 11, 2011, 09:09 PM

What's the idea with the ubiquitous, unkillable heretics that appear in 6.4? Your weakling priests simply can't cope with them. Perhaps the point is making the game more "challenging" by making all your settlements ungovernable because of religious unrest? I don't find that challenging in a fun way, but I do find it very annoying. Or frustrating. I've resorted to simply opening the console and teletransporting the miscreants to the farthest corner of the map. I usually prefer not to cheat, but dead-end situations require drastic solutions. Ironically, hunting heretics actually used to be kind of fun...

**Jean=A=Luc** · July 11, 2011, 09:47 PM

Yeah, they're nasty. I had a priest (~6 rings or so) try to denounce a heretic with 51% chance of success. What happened was that he failed and immediately turned into a 10 ring heretic. Then I sent a "weaker" priest with ~30% chance of success hoping my luck will change but he to transformed into a 10th level heretic.

As the 6.4 release thread says the idea is for the "faith wars" to be really challenging and for the player to have to use assassins to get rid of heretics. Now I like the idea of more challenging heretics but I don't like how priests are almost completely useless for hunting them down. Taking this role away from priests is a bad design decision imo. Assassins are hardly reliable as well with their ~10% success chance against all those lvl 10 heretics and in the early campaign it can take quite a while before you can hire even a single assassin. Their main advantage over priests is that they don't turn into heretics as well.

Luckily I am playing Byzantium which has a large territory and a lot of churches so I hire whole armies of priests to stave off religious unrest. Quickly got a Theologian HQ in Constantinople and another Theo-guild in Nicea. I "micro" my priests away from the heretics so they don't get unorthodoxy traits and place like 3 of them in a single region for each heretic present. Sometimes I'm lucky and the heretics wander off into enemy territory.

So far I've been able to cope but I really wish for priests to be able to denounce the bastards which they can but only very rarely. Also, as I'm taking Turkish territory and having to convert the populace away from Islam along with Catholic incursions from the north I find my priest army stretched thin and having to prioritize religious buildings more than usual.

**Marie Louise von Preussen** · July 11, 2011, 10:05 PM

Military execution.

**Ichon** · July 11, 2011, 10:47 PM

I prefer military escort. Also Cardinal won't be converted and bishops have a fairly low chance. Priests die fast. It is especially hard as Pagans to get rid of them. Catholics is the easiest. I haven't played an Islamic faction yet in 6.4 but I imagine they have same trouble as Pagans except they usually start with more resources and able to build assassins faster.

**Alfonzo over Innsmouths** · July 28, 2011, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Ichon

...Also Cardinal won't be converted...

As Norway I had a cardinal turn heretic. Not because he was converted to heresy when he went after another heretic, he just turned to heresy one day. And what's worse, this happened TWICE.

So Cardinals aren't heresy proof, fyi.

**Raw Recruit** · July 11, 2011, 10:55 PM

Actually, I got very lucky during my genoa campaign. I had a 2 piety priest denounce THREE heretics all with 20-40% chance.

**Nyarla** · July 12, 2011, 01:37 AM

have your assassins slaughter rebel captains for training until they get some nice ancillaries and traits. only takes a few rounds then they can deal with those heretics or unfriendly priests that wander in your lands. 40% chance to succeed killing 10 piety heretics is nice.
sure your leader will get some evil traits and turn into a dreaded lord, but his authority rises and he scares the enemy on the battlefield. i found this to be a desireable side effect.

**Delvecchio1975** · July 12, 2011, 04:32 AM

Send the army in: you often don't need 9 units as these heretics like to stick to rivers or mountainsides. Advantages are your king stays chivalrous so your settlement growth doesn't get impeded, you get not extra heretics from your bishops falling to heresy, and you don't have to wait five turns until your assassin finally manages to top the guy, when the right religion in your region already lowered by 30% ....

**The Source** · July 12, 2011, 04:36 AM

^pretty much all of the kings you will get will have max authority, not to mention the privy seal which grants +8 authority

**ziserman** · July 12, 2011, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by The Source

not to mention the privy seal which grants +8 authority

Doesn't this add +1 loyalty? And it is irrelevant to killing heretics with armies isn't it?

**PerXX** · July 12, 2011, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by The Source

^pretty much all of the kings you will get will have max authority, not to mention the privy seal which grants +8 authority

Privy Seal doesn't add authority, unless you somehow have modded your game..

Code:

Ancillary privyseal 
 Type office
 Transferable 1
 Image privy.tga
 Description privyseal_desc
 EffectsDescription privyseal_effects_desc
 Effect Loyalty 1
 Effect Piety 1

**The Source** · July 12, 2011, 05:02 AM

ah yes haha sorry guys, was looking at the wrong ancillary

**ziserman** · July 12, 2011, 05:08 AM

So which ancillary gives +8 authority?

**ITC** · July 12, 2011, 05:13 AM

I think it's all ok with heretics now. Religious wars - is a good idea. But also army of fanatics should be added to those heretics.

**ziserman** · July 12, 2011, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by ITC

I think it's all ok with heretics now. Religious wars - is a good idea. But also army of fanatics should be added to those heretics.

This would be lovely. Rebel fanatic armies that spawn when heresy reaches high levels in your lands and loyalist armies spawning when you have high numbers of a different religion in an area.

**PerXX** · July 12, 2011, 05:16 AM

There is none that gives +8 authority.. unless you play with that Select your Heir Submod.

**The Source** · July 12, 2011, 06:36 AM

^+rep

**ITC** · July 12, 2011, 08:31 AM

Ya, it should be added to suggestion thread. )
But I think we are in a lack of realization of all our suggestions..

**Asterix** · July 12, 2011, 09:16 AM

i like the way heretics work in 6.4, even if they are insanely difficult to get rid of without assassins. The heresy spreads from 1 crazy lunatic to your priests until you have 9 of them running around wreaking havoc. They come in waves.

**SoulBlade** · July 12, 2011, 09:22 AM

I'd say give them another stat to their traits - -3 Personal Security for False Prophet and -2 for the natural heretic skill. This way they'll be easier to kill by Assassins.