Stock markets fall on debt fears - Italy

[Treize]

European stock markets fell heavily on Monday, weighed down by fears that the eurozone's debt crisis was spreading.
In Italy shares dropped 4%, in France the Cac index fell 2.7%, Germany's Dax fell 2.3%, and London's FTSE 100 was down 1%. US markets were also down.
Banks across Europe were hit hard, with Italy's Unicredit down 6.3%.
Eurozone finance ministers were holding talks on a new aid plan for Greece, but this was overshadowed by fears of contagion spreading to Italy and Spain.
US stocks had their worst day in nearly a month, with the Dow Jones falling 1.2% and the Nasdaq shedding 2%.
The euro fell, while borrowing costs for Spain and Italy rose to 12-year euro-era highs.
"There are tensions across the eurozone, we must find a solution," Belgian minister Didier Reynders said to reporters on arrival at the finance ministers' meeting.
Ministers are discussing how, and by how much, banks and other financial institutions can contribute to a new rescue package for Greece.
Ahead of the meeting, Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero called for a "swift and precise clarification" of how a second bail-out for Greece might work.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel also urged speedy action on new aid for Greece, and added that Italy needs to send a "very important signal" by passing an austerity budget.
Italy's Finance Minister Giulio Tremonti has proposed 48bn euros ($67bn; £42bn) in budget cuts over three years and aims to cut the deficit to zero by 2014 from this year's 3.9% of gross domestic product.
However, financial markets were unsettled by remarks from Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, who indicated in a newspaper interview that the austerity plan might not have full cabinet support.
In a sign that investors are growing more risk averse, the yield on Italian 10-year bonds jumped to 5.6% from 5.3%. Meanwhile, yields on Spanish 10-year bonds rose to 5.9% from 5.7%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14113796


When Italy falls it will be game over...
They would even eat a doubled rescue fund of 1500billion like a plate of spaghetti.

Or, where we dance on the grave of Eurofederalism.

[NotYetRegistered]

I'm having a bad feeling about this.

[PointOfViewGun]

Can we stop with the paranoia (even when there are reasons to) of an apocalypse? It's what makes the crisis more severe.

[a tw player]

The repercussions of this shall be worse than the "credit crunch" I'm guessing, but then again anything that weakens the Eurozone is good in the long run.

Can we stop with the paranoia (even when there are reasons to) of an apocalypse? It's what makes the crisis more severe.

It's widely known that investors take TWC forum users as a sample of market confidence

[PointOfViewGun]

It's widely known that investors take TWC forum users as a sample of market confidence

Is the paranoia only existent in TWC forums?

[a tw player]

Is the paranoia only existent in TWC forums?

No, but we're hardly responsible here for all the insecurities, doesn't make any difference if we do enter a state of paranoia or not

[PointOfViewGun]

No, but we're hardly responsible here for all the insecurities, doesn't make any difference if we do enter a state of paranoia or not

By all means continue then.

[a tw player]

By all means continue then.

Thank you kind sir

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Manuel I Komnenos]

So, the end has come...

[antares24]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14113796


When Italy falls it will be game over...
They would even eat a doubled rescue fund of 1500billion like a plate of spaghetti.

Or, where we dance on the grave of Eurofederalism.

to be honest i am quite surprised by this overreaction of the markets, and also by the way some press is reporting what happened.

Basically the markets were quite calm a few days ago after the approval of greece bailout, and in the meantime the Italian government was preparing a package of saving measures to reach budget parity by 2014 (the idea is basically that by then Greece will be doomed, but in the meantime the main economies and banks of the EU will have done their homework and put their accounts in order, so a greek default will not be so bad for others).

Then there was a scandal involving a collaborator of the Italian financial minister Tremonti, that didn't involve the minister directly. And on some international press i saw that there was speculation that he could be forced to resign. But in Italy itself no one was saying that, and Tremonti position is rock solid as he is trusted by the markets as the person that kept the Italian finances in order these years. So who the hell spread those baseless rumors?

Then the BBC and other news media reported a Berlusconi interview citing a passage in which he said that the saving package could be modified at the moment of the vote in parliament, but omitted the part where he said that even if changes are possible in the various saving chapters, the final figures of € saved will not change. So why not report that?

My impression is that someone is blowing on the fire to scare the markets, that are already worried about the USA budget impasse and Asia rising inflation.

Anyway, to those that will like to see an end of the eurozone, i think you will be disappointed, infact these jitters of the markets will only result in Italy approving the saving package as fast as possible, and without any cut in the savings.
And apart from dreams, a failure of the eurozone will give a huge kick to an already weak world economy, making the lives of everyone worses, so why wish it?

[Thorn777]

Good. This means only more fancy southern-European things to buy at discount-prices.

After we finished shopping I think its time to form a northern-Euro and become the worlds new currency stalwart. By todays standards France, Germany, BeNeLux and the Scandinavians combined would be a larger creditor-nation than China already.

All thx to the German spies.

[Basil II the B.S]

Good. This means only more fancy southern-European things to buy at discount-prices.

After we finished shopping I think its time to form a northern-Euro and become the worlds new currency stalwart. By todays standards France, Germany, BeNeLux and the Scandinavians combined would be a larger creditor-nation than China already.

All thx to the German spies.

An eventual EU failure would ultimately be a failure of the Paris-Berlin axis and their greed. And there goes all your credibility.

The day Italy collapses, people will vote the random populist dictator, and you can forget about everything without compensation. I can assure you, as unpopular as EU institutions are these days, Franco-Germany will get all the blame. And this time you don't have an army to back any claims.
Northern Europe will be surrounded by pissed off Eastern and Southern hyper-nationalists countries because of the inevitable domino effect.
You'll have to pay French farmers to compensate them for the loss of their protected market, or they'll vote Le pen.
On the top of that, you'll be flooded with (North and sub-saharian) illegal immigrants, left wing activists will come handy in this case, so that they can properly contribute to the destruction of your welfare state and boost racial tensions to the unbelief. Therefore Le Pen will be elected regardless. Good-bye to the axis.

So, yea, Germany, if you think you can take advantage of weaker countries thanks to the free market, build your strenght and let them die, think again.

In the while, I'm leaving for safer places.

[Treize]

An eventual EU failure would ultimately be a failure of the Paris-Berlin axis and their greed. And there goes all your credibility.

The day Italy collapses, people will vote the random populist dictator, and you can forget about everything without compensation. I can assure you, as unpopular as EU institutions are these days, Franco-Germany will get all the blame. And this time you don't have an army to back any claims.
Northern Europe will be surrounded by pissed off Eastern and Southern hyper-nationalists countries because of the inevitable domino effect.
You'll have to pay French farmers to compensate them for the loss of their protected market, or they'll vote Le pen.
On the top of that, you'll be flooded with (North and sub-saharian) illegal immigrants, left wing activists will come handy in this case, so that they can properly contribute to the destruction of your welfare state and boost racial tensions to the unbelief. Therefore Le Pen will be elected regardless. Good-bye to the axis.

So, yea, Germany, if you think you can take advantage of weaker countries thanks to the free market, build your strenght and let them die, think again.

In the while, I'm leaving for safer places.

I mean, it is not as if Germany has many many tanks and howizers in storage or as if they have many men with military experience...


KruppKMW steel and all that.

[molonthegreat]

An eventual EU failure would ultimately be a failure of the Paris-Berlin axis and their greed. And there goes all your credibility.

The day Italy collapses, people will vote the random populist dictator, and you can forget about everything without compensation. I can assure you, as unpopular as EU institutions are these days, Franco-Germany will get all the blame. And this time you don't have an army to back any claims.
Northern Europe will be surrounded by pissed off Eastern and Southern hyper-nationalists countries because of the inevitable domino effect.
You'll have to pay French farmers to compensate them for the loss of their protected market, or they'll vote Le pen.
On the top of that, you'll be flooded with (North and sub-saharian) illegal immigrants, left wing activists will come handy in this case, so that they can properly contribute to the destruction of your welfare state and boost racial tensions to the unbelief. Therefore Le Pen will be elected regardless. Good-bye to the axis.

So, yea, Germany, if you think you can take advantage of weaker countries thanks to the free market, build your strenght and let them die, think again.

In the while, I'm leaving for safer places.

Considering how worthless those Southerners have performed I doubt that they would be a problem for German military efficiency .

[Thorn777]

An eventual EU failure would ultimately be a failure of the Paris-Berlin axis and their greed. And there goes all your credibility.

The day Italy collapses, people will vote the random populist dictator, and you can forget about everything without compensation. I can assure you, as unpopular as EU institutions are these days, Franco-Germany will get all the blame. And this time you don't have an army to back any claims.
Northern Europe will be surrounded by pissed off Eastern and Southern hyper-nationalists countries because of the inevitable domino effect.
You'll have to pay French farmers to compensate them for the loss of their protected market, or they'll vote Le pen.
On the top of that, you'll be flooded with (North and sub-saharian) illegal immigrants, left wing activists will come handy in this case, so that they can properly contribute to the destruction of your welfare state and boost racial tensions to the unbelief. Therefore Le Pen will be elected regardless. Good-bye to the axis.

So, yea, Germany, if you think you can take advantage of weaker countries thanks to the free market, build your strenght and let them die, think again.

In the while, I'm leaving for safer places.

Your forgetting, the only reason France is allowed in my super cool club is because it has the nukes.

[Basil II the B.S]

Your forgetting, the only reason France is allowed in my super cool club is because it has the nukes.

Purely hypotetical scenario, for the lulz:

-you don't compensate enough French farmers, that for the record, are probably costing more to you than bailing out Greece
-they vote Marine Le Pen
-she wins the elections and quits EU or any other form of allegiance with you
-Nazi France has nukes

lulz?

[Thorn777]

Purely hypotetical scenario, for the lulz:

-you don't compensate enough French farmers, that for the record, are probably costing more to you than bailing out Greece
-they vote Marine Le Pen
-she wins the elections and quits EU or any other form of allegiance with you
-Nazi France has nukes

lulz?

I think thats fairly unrealistic.

[Rex Germanius]

Purely hypotetical scenario, for the lulz:

-you don't compensate enough French farmers, that for the record, are probably costing more to you than bailing out Greece
-they vote Marine Le Pen
-she wins the elections and quits EU or any other form of allegiance with you
-Nazi France has nukes

lulz?

Ironically, many of those nuclear weapons were supplied by Germany.

Is it as good as English cuisine?

Apparently, sir, you have never eaten a properly cooked Sunday roast.

[Ahlerich]

Purely hypotetical scenario, for the lulz:

-you don't compensate enough French farmers, that for the record, are probably costing more to you than bailing out Greece
-they vote Marine Le Pen
-she wins the elections and quits EU or any other form of allegiance with you
-Nazi France has nukes

lulz?

you made your calculations without the barbrian mercenary hordes of the east. gazprom.

Sure, one of my best friends dad actually is a chef originaly from Sicily. He taught me to make a few Italian dishes, real easy, real cheap.

Most Pizzaria's though are inhabitated by Arab gangsters, and those places are just nasty.

lampedusa? i allways thought sicily is nothern africa. they are not real italians, more africans. and we all know that africans are related to apes while white christians are created by god.


----------------------------------------


but seriously the italian problem surfacing again is a real reason to worry. now today ireland has been rated down by moodies or another gency of this north american market manipulating cartel. this currency union will likely be crushed earlier then i thought.

[Treize]

Good. This means only more fancy southern-European things to buy at discount-prices.

After we finished shopping I think its time to form a northern-Euro and become the worlds new currency stalwart. By todays standards France, Germany, BeNeLux and the Scandinavians combined would be a larger creditor-nation than China already.

All thx to the German spies.

E-Mark

Seriously, it is impossible to have a single currency with both wealthy productive states and bankrupt lazy-ass bungabunga states.