Dani's Rome 0-Turn Campaign

[Aristotle's Folly]

Roman 0-turn Campaign
BI.exe
Hard/Hard
Large Units
All graphics on highest settings (except unit graphics which are set to high)
Default EDU

*

Preliminary Report:

Installed game easily, although the new faction selection process through me a curve. I've played through the first ten years twice now, auto-resolving battles (yes, I saw Tone's message in the other thread and will start a new campaign without utilizing auto-resolve). I will be testing the Roman trait system, the economy, and the graphics per Tone's and DVK's request.

Initial reaction to the rebellion and the economy: the campaign is much harder. My first time through, I was at -40k by Turn 10. The difference is in the traits Quintus Maximus develops. In the 1.2 release (which I still have installed), Quintus gets the Acknowledged/Beloved traits, which in turn lead to the trait Economic Prosperity. In the Beta release, he starts with the trait Average Leader. The economy takes a rather large hit as a result.

Another issue I've noticed is that generals/leaders - or any units in cities - cannot exit the city ... easily. The movement from inside the city to outside is severely restricted. Basically, I can move outside the city and that's it. This makes it virtually impossible to bring up reinforcements in any timely manner. Perhaps this is game design, but just telling you how this is working right now.

I'll start a new campaign and post more information and screenshots later tonight. As always, I run the risk of telling you what you may already know, but will err on the side of speaking up rather than assuming you know.

~ Dani ~

[rory o'kane]

Yeah, Dani's got a point. We need to be able to move guys freely in and out of cities as we choose...

[tone]

I think that was intentional, in order to limit the military usefulness of established governors, but I'm not sure it's currently working quite as intended. I'm glad you're finding the economy more challenging, I've found that too.

One thing to be aware of is that equestrians are currently set to follow the post marian military tree a this is what we are testing..it might be useful if you can to recruit some generals fairly early on as these are less likely to be patrician.

[rory o'kane]

I understand the intention, but the point is that the governor of a region was responsible to some extent for its protection - it's why, when the Dacians raided across the Danube during the reign of Domitian, the Governor of Moesia was killed trying to organise the defence of the province. Our governors should be allowed to lead troops into battle - just their traits will mean that most of them won't be that good at it.

[Ybbon]

Oh, I wasn't aware there was a distinction, so it's more like 1.6 with Governor's and Generals? I haven't recruited any specific Generals as yet as I have plenty of family members, but some of them are getting old now so probably worth investing in Generals.

Oddly as well, not all Governors are so restricted, I have just put a new Governor in Arretium as the old died of old age, and he can move quite some way, but the Governor in Arriminum who has been there a while can barely move out of his city.

Another I noted yesterday (probably need to redo it to recreate), I had an army in a fort near Capua. It had been static and has 1 Ballista. I wanted to move it towards Genoa but putting a marker near Arretium showed it would take at least 4 turns to get to Rome. Once out the Fort on the next turn, I was able to move the same army to the bridge between Arretium and Genoa in a single move. I can replay that easily enough tonight and get a screenshot.

[rory o'kane]

It's a trait-related thing, rather than having specific units.

[TTRouble]

I think the governor should at least be able to move to the within the next nearest settlement and perhaps no further. At the moment its too restrictive and limits the gameplay in my opinion, so to get around this I'm having to recruit additional governor/generals for key settlements who can then be deployed rapidly.

[rory o'kane]

Hmm, I think it should be up to player to have the discipline to do it. Some players may not be bothered with the whole roleplaying thing, and so we shouldn't force them into it.

[RandomSarmartian]

it should be an optional part of the game and be put in the important stuff folder if the choose not to load it

[Aristotle's Folly]

Okay, very frustrating moment:

I spent over an hour writing a playtesting report. Foolishly, I wrote it right into the message box here on the forum. I had pictures and everything. I go to post it and I get the login screen. So I login and I get the message that says, in effect:

"Oh, we're sorry. Someone has posted a message on this thread since you started writing this report. Of course, since their message got in first, we've taken this opportunity to delete every word you've written and every link you've posted. We're sure it wasn't important.

No, no, you needn't thank us. Have a nice day."

Eggghhhh. When will I learn???

Okay, I won't rewrite it, but consider this: a general in a city with no movement is trapped. You can't save them during the rebellion. They're doomed to die. You can make this feature optional if you wish but math is still math in every part of the Universe and if I can't move my general more than a few (what, spaces?) then a full Rebel stack that can move further WILL destory them.

Why would I play this? Just to watch generals/governors die?

Also, if I move a general into a city to retrain, he's trapped. Also, if I move a general into a city for the elections he's trapped. Not realizing this, I appear to have doomed Scipio the Elder to a life of restrctive movement. A Carthagenian army can threaten Rome and he can't do anything to defend the city because he can't move far enough to attack them.

~ Dani ~

[tone]

OK, sounds like we need to reconsider the movement issue....maybe try and descriminate further - governors who've been static for maybe more than 6 turns or something vs ones who just go into the settlement for a turn or two?

[rory o'kane]

Or just don't restrict movement at all? I can see a HUGE flood of complaint threads flowing in from people if we do...

[dvk901]

I'm certainly willing to 'address' the issue of movement, but I'm not sure I understand the complaint. ONLY the governor suffers this restriction....the units themselves can't be restricted, so you can take them and reinforce anything you want. No other character in the city, furthermore, has this restriction. So a recruited General who is NOT the governor can move at will.

Now, if you moved a character into a city and he BECAME the governor...what does this tell me? That the city had no governor, and that's exactly what this all trying to prevent....players just letting all their cities auto-manage, and skipping the expense or perhaps detrimental aspects of a Governor. Anyway, as written now, the trait looks like this:

Trait City_Has_Governor
Characters family
Hidden
NoGoingBackLevel 3
AntiTraits Not_A_Governor

Level Large_Town_Has_Governor
Description Large_Town_Has_Governor_desc
EffectsDescription Large_Town_Has_Governor_effects_desc
Threshold 4

Effect TaxCollection 20
Effect MovementPoints -20

Level City_Has_Governor
Description City_Has_Governor_desc
EffectsDescription City_Has_Governor_effects_desc
Threshold 6

Effect TaxCollection 30
Effect MovementPoints -40

I had thought the restriction was 20 and 40%...not a complete axing of movement. Is that the case? Also, are ALL characters getting the trait (I doubt it, but I could be wrong, in which case that needs fixing).

[Aristotle's Folly]

Playtest Report - Second Initial Report

Okay, I'll try this again, using the versitile Windows Notepad, then pasting my text into the Forum post box.

The Economy.

As you may know, for me, RSII is all about the economy. So I've been trying to get my mind around how the new economy works.

I've started four games and played into each one a bit. In three of the four games, I've been economically devestated. In the fourth game, Hannibal attacked Arritium, but decided not to take it. He just retreated across the river to Genoa. Moreover, the other Carthagenian army didn't take Ariminum. Since neither city was taken, I didn't get the hit in the economy and it was smooth sailing with me never really having less than 10k per turn - even with the Roman rebellion.

The key is whether Carthage takes both Arritium and Ariminum on the first three turns. If it does, then my economy - no matter what I do - enters negative numbers and here we're talking serious negative numbers: -10k to -20k or more. If Carthage takes Arritium and Ariminum, and the Rebels get Capua and Croton, then it's really a tough fight. The start of the game is actually a challenge.

To answer the question Tone always asks: Is it too hard?

It just depends. I like the variable quality. If it's hard, then there's a desperate quality to the Rebellion that I find both annoying and enjoyable (if that makes sense). It feels like my Republic is in serious danger: and it is, for if my economy gets too low, then I can't retrain or recruit and I'm severely outnumbered.

It has definitely changed how I start the game. I have some ideas for some new opening moves, and I'll show them in my next report.

The General issue.

Now that I've gotten over the initial shock, this is how it is working right now:

- Units are not effected.
- Not all generals/governors are effected. I've not yet figured out what the distinguishing factor is: do they have to have family trees?
- Those that are effected, are effected in the following ways: If you move them during the very first turn, you can move them the full distance out of any city. No problem. As soon as you end the turn, the movement limitation starts. Now if you move them out of the city, it takes two turns before they can move any significant distance. But then they can move full distances once two turns have passed.

This is the effect in my game:

- I move any general I want to use out of the city during that first turn.
- Because the general doesn't get the weapon/armor upgrades (because if they stay in the city, they get the leadfoot trait), I'm less inclined to use them as "extra cavalry." I generally keep them out of harms way. As I should.
- I keep my legions in the field. I recruit "raw" units and merge them with existing units. It's not very immersive to march a legion to Rome and have the general sit outside the city while his units are retrained. So I'm just recruiting stacks of new units and merging them with my legions in the field.
- It does slow down my advances if I have to wait for a general to move.

All in all, it just seems artificial to me: a restraint that doesn't make doesn't really make sense at all. I agree with Rory, a more logical restraint would be to have some kind of limitation placed on troop moral (is that a condition in the game) or even how quickly they can obtain command stars. For every three to five turns they spend as governor they loose a command star but gain a management scroll?

Senatorial and Counselor Elections.

First comment: when the rebellion and an election occur in the same year, the election advisor window dismisses the rebellion advisor so that sometimes, on my computer, it just flashes past. Just an FYI
.
Second, all the text in the advisor window is a bit hard to read. My suggestion is to put it in a information scroll that pops up at the beginning of a turn, the first time the election occurs. For every subsequent event, use the advisor window just telling the player the election is about to occur and maybe leave the text off. Don't know if that's possible and, of course, it's just a suggestion.

Third, what's the benefit? What does my general or governor get for being a senator? If it's just influence, then - to be honest - I'll probably ignore it. I'm not finding influence to be that helpful in the game - but I could be wrong. And getting my general stuck in a city isn't going to make me happy.

Skies and Battle Map Graphics.

Well, I'm seeing new skies (which is about as helpful as when a guy says "That looks good on you.") I'll post a number of sky images later today. It's definitely an improvement but, yeah, what does that mean? I'll show you later.

New Buildings.

Well, yeah, they're there, too. The new tenaments look fantastic (but maybe a little too clean?). Like I said above, I'll post some pictures later this afternoon.

Now that I have a better feel for the economy and how it works, I'm staring a new campaign. I'll post full report later tonight. As always, I hope this helps.

~ Dani ~

[Aristotle's Folly]

I'm certainly willing to 'address' the issue of movement, but I'm not sure I understand the complaint.

~ snip ~

Well, it's a shocker if you don't know about it. Rory's right: you'll hear complaints. So maybe soften the blow a bit by telling people it's coming?

Is it a problem once you understand what's going on? Not horribly - now that I've seen the code (and I suppose I should have looked at it myself first) I'll find a work-around and I'm sure others will, too. Probably doesn't help that most of my generals are in cities at the start of the game.

You're right: if you read my previous post, I simply recruit units and send them to legions in the field. And it does force the player to plan who will be a general.

The real problem for me is when my econmy tanks and I can't recruit a general. During those several turns, it forces me to have cities with no governors. If you want players to have both, maybe give us an extra general or two in Italy?

~ Dani ~

P.S. To answer your questions:

No, not all characters are getting it. As my report indicates, only a few (that looks like they have family trees) get it. So not all generals.

You're right - the movement loss is gradual over a couple of turns. If I put a general in a city for 1 turn, then his movement radius is a lot smaller. Two turns and it's much smaller still. If he's older, that has an effect, too.

If you pull him out of the city, then it takes two turns to recover - the turn you pull him out and the next turn.

All that's required is a bit of planning.

~ Dani ~

[Aristotle's Folly]

Playtest Report - 536S AUC to 541S AUC

Hannibal and Roman Rebellion, Part I

*

Gameplay:

Trying to keep a good humor about this. 11 turns into the game and it's not looking good. Here's the grim facts.

Turn 1 (536S): Send navy to Emporiae to pick up Publius Scipio the Elder's units. Move him, Quintus Maximus, Quintus Flaccus (and most of his units), and Gaius Varro out of their respective cities. Give four allied cohorts from southern Italy to Varro. Build two boats in Dyyrhachium to move Flaccus and his Polybian units to Italy. The goal is to consolidate my army around Rome.

Try to prune some units. Disable slingers in Southern Italy and Sicily; disable some allied units in Caralis. Keeping units to bare minimum.

Next, I destory the five Annex Region buildings in Caralis, Aleria, Lilybeaum, Akragas, and Messana. The trade increase they bring isn't worth the Large Foundry I can build in Rome with the money. Bring the single Polybian cohort that's in Arritium down to Rome. Retrain as many of the units in Rome as I can to get the weapons/armor benefits.

Consolidate all Polybian units in Sicily to Scipio the Younger, and move them to the corner, near Messana, to be picked up by my navy at its earliest convenience.

Raise taxes as high as I can and still keep the people semi-happy (yellow faces).

Time to fight Hannibal. I draw an ambush, but luckily he doesn't suprise me. Deploy Nepos' army, do my best, but in the end, I lose pretty bad. I'm not even sure how much I damaged him.

Turn 2 (536W): Carthage sieges Arretium and Ariminum. Senatorial Elections occur. Lucius Albinas (Aleria) and Marcus Salinator (Messana) both get their Propraetorships (as non-transferable ancillaries).

Profits for the turn are: 16,841, giving me a total treasury of 21,842.

I pick up Scipio and his units in Emporiae and head back to Rome, dodging a Carthagenian navy. I retrain and recruit in Rome to quickly build up my first "legion." I build a Shrine of Jupiter in Emporiae to try and keep the peace and hopefully make the people happy enough that I can raise taxes a bit.

My boats are done in Dyyrhachium, so I move Flaccus' units to the Italian mainland. Move the army, and Varro's army, as close to Rome as I can get them. Send spy to check out Carthage's two generals, Hannibal and Maharbal, and discover Carthage has got a "balanced economy." Wish I did.

Turn 3 (537S): This turn I draw a husband for Fadia who has no other characteristics than he's my son-in-law and he's "youthful." Nice. But I need someone to babysit Rome so I accept him and move on. Nepos (who lost his battle to Hannibal) gets Procounsol Influence, Varro and Flaccus get Tribunus Militi, Maximus gets, you got it, Dictator. Quintus Metellus and Lucius Pallius get Client State Rulers (accepted as ruler without penalty). The Revolts in Italy occur in Rhegion and Tarentum.

And my economy goes down the drain. Profits for the turn are: -11,356, giving me a total treasury of 10,486.

I recuit what units I can to flush out my first "legion" and my treasury is empty. I move Flaccus and Varro, and Scipio on the boats, closer to Rome. Since I have no more money, nothing to do, I end my turn.

Turn 4 (537W): Hannibal takes Arretium, Maharbal takes Ariminum. The death toll is pretty ugly: Nepos, Metellus, and Paullus are all dead. Since I'm fighting every battle on the battle map, I get to watch them die. Sadly.

Crotona is besieged by the Rebels.

The Averni sue for peace and trade rights and get them 'cause, what, I need ANOTHER enemy right now? I get a notice that, hey, the Senatorial elections are occuring if I want to send someone to the city. Too bad, all my generals are busy SAVING THE REPUBLIC!!

In Traits, Geminus gets Legatus, Publius Scipio gets Corona Triumphalis (I don't know why, he didn't do anything - either of them). Attellus gets Tribunus Mitili. And that's it, but to be fair, the number of possible for candidates for traits IS dwindling.

The economy is every bit as grim as the battles. Profits for the turn are: -12,189, giving me a total treasury of -1703.

Crap, I've got to do something and before it gets worse. But what to do? I've got no money so I can't build. I've got no money so I can't recruit governors. All my governors are dying 'cause they're locked into cities while full stacks of the enemy attack at will. I've got any number of generals outside the city, but I can't attack with generals alone.

All my armies are consolidated around Rome. Quintus Maximus gets my first Legion, Legion 1. It's fully recruited and ready to go. Unfortunately, he's an un-inspired leader, a proven battlefield tactician, a political general, and - get this - a procrastintor. A procrastinator! Seriously??

I look at my other units and build my second legion, Legion 2, with Publius Scipio the Elder as general. I mean, he's a Gifted Battlefield Tactician, even if he's a Partician. Unfortunately, his units are not as well-trained or equipted as Maximus'.

I consolidate what's left - a mixture of untrained and average equipted Allied and Polybian units - into a back-up army with both Faccus and Varro in command. Not quite an official legion, and not even a full stack (although it does include a pair of Greek Tarantine Cavalry units that mysteriously appear in Capua after the Rebellion).

Well, they're not much, but they're all I have. I send my navy to pick up Scipio the Younger and end my turn.

Turn 5 (538S): Good news, my large foundry is done. If I any money, those Rebel's would be hurtin' now.

But I don't have any money. My profits are: -3674, for total treasury of -5377. Sigh.

Maximus gets Legatus Legions, Geminus gets Procounsul Influence. Albinus gets Small Client Network. In addition, there's The Captured Messanger telling me I'm about to have Macedonian's crawling up my, eh, boot (get it - Italy - boot - never mind). Lex Oppia tells me how much fun it is to be a woman in Rome.

And Cannae is sieged by Roman Rebels. Crap, crap, crap.

On the up side, my Navy takes out a Rebel navy before sailing on towards Scipio the Younger.

Well, there's nothing for it. I need money. And the Rebels aren't going to stop taking my cities. So I send my spy northward and check out what's there. A half stack of Carthagenians are blocking the border, and the rest of the units are in the cites. I send Maximus (Legion 1) north, circumventing the Carthagenian half-stack, and he sieges Arretium. Scipio takes Legion 2 north and sieges Ariminum. Flaccus and Varro also go north and come within a hair of attacking Genoa.

Holding my breath, I end my turn.

Turn 6 (538W): First, Maximus and Legion 1 are attacked by two Carthagenian armies, the one half-stack they circumvented and one lead by Hannibal. This is going to be the deciding battle of the campaign. One army attacks my front, the other directly behind me (don't you love the AI?). It's one of the more difficult battles I've fought, but my well-trained Roman legion pevails. Hannibal is killed by a cohort of triarii and the kills numbers are 1689 to 784 in my favor.

Legion 1 has retaken Arretium, but is severely weakened.

Before the AI's turn is over, the Rebels take Crotona, killing Lucius Atellius and Gnaeus Geminus, who happened to be in Crotona with him. Two more governors dead.

I get another advertisment for Senatorial Elections. It's like a slap in the face. Seriously? Who is left to run?

But now I have good news. My profits are 7309, with a treasury of 1932.

Continuing my campaign to the north, Flaccus' small army takes Genoa and Scipio takes Arretium easily (a full legion against 219 men). I destory the colony built in Geona by the Carthagenians ('cause I need money) and recruit - get this - A NEW GENERAL! WooHoo! I feel like a spendthrift.

I end my turn with another naval victory over the Rebels.

Turn 7 (539S): The Boii want trade and I want map info. The Cimbiri want peace and I want trade and, yeah, map info.

The Rebels decide it's time to take Cannae - and do it, killing Sextus Maximus is the process. Sigh. Lucius Albinus in my new heir.

No traits to hand out really, except a few small client networks.

The economy is looking up, with profits of 12,728 and a treasury of 14,662. I breath a sigh of relief.

I check out my new governor and like what I see: "balanced economy". I can live with that. I move him to Arretium, where Quintus Maximus and Legion 1 have been holding court. They move outside the city (and just outside the city because that's all they can move) and my new governor moves in - and the economy drops! So much for "balanced economy." Moreover, I need to lower taxes because of unrest. Egghh.

I leave two of Scipio's cohorts in Ariminum and pull Legion 2 out, preparing to march it back to Rome - as soon as it gets it's movement points back. Sigh.

My ships have reached Scipio the Younger and his half legion. I'm about ship to them to Rome when I notice that Rhegion - right across the bay - is barely defended. Time to strike a blow against the Rebels! I ship him and his units across the and lay siege to Rhegion, taking out another Rebel navy in the process.

I dump my newfound wealth into units to replenish my legions.

Things are looking up as I end my turn.

Turn 8 (539W): Somethings a bit odd here? My profits are dropping. Significantly.

My profits are -10,325 and my treasury is 4337. I spend what money I have on more units for my weakened Legions. Maximus has his movement points back and so I move him to Rome and replenish his legion with the units I've recruited. I'm pretty close to full legion, and that feels good.

I also move Scipio the Elder down to Rome to replenish Legion 2.

In all this movement, I forget about Scipio the Younger - for what that's worth - and end my turn.

Turn 9 (540S): Disaster.

Three Rebel armies surround and attack Scipio the Younger and his half stack. He's outnumbered two to one. He doesn't stand a chance. Crap, crap, crap.

I fight the battle on the battle map. It's a bit surreal, because for several minutes, I feel like I've got it won. But who am I kidding? I surrounded on every side by Rebels and my units have neither training nor armor increases. In the end, it's not enough, although Scipio himself fought so well that his unit went up two experience points in one battle.

But it's not good enough. Because the army is surrounded, I lose them all. Dammit.

The Rebels are on a roll now and move north, smelling blood. They siege Capua.

My profits are back up to 7080 this turn, my treasury is at 11,417, and I again recruit replacement units for Legion 2 this time.

I bring my experienced Legion 1 southward, under the command of Maximus, to scare the Rebel army away from Capua. They don't scare. I have to fight the battle - a victory. Aftewards, I move my army over to lay siege to Cannae.

Then I notice something that annoys me. Really annoys me. Decimus Maximus (governor of Lilybeaum) has the trait: Ruined Lands. Not poor farmer, but Ruined Lands. Ruined. And he gets dinged for "poor management."

So what? I'm supposed to build farms? When I don't have enough money to recruit legions? Or build ANYTHING for that matter. This is starting to feel like an Adam Smith "guns and butter" nightmare!!

"You have two choices, Dani. Recruit units and save the republic, but ruin your economy in the process, or stabalize the economy so that the Rebels and Hannibal can live it up!"

This idea was reinforced at the end of the next turn when my profits dipped into the negative again, down to -2587. When I started checking traits, I discovered my Roman governor had the trait: Minor Recession. I actually used the F-word when I saw that.

To make matters worse, at the start of the turn, Quintus Maximus was attacked by two stacks of Roman Rebels. He withdrew, abandonning his siege of Cannae and retreating towards Rome. One stack followed him and he was force to fight it, to victory. But he was immediately attacked again - by FOUR REBEL ARMIES of various sizes.

You know what happens here, right? Signifcnatly outnumbered, completely overwhelmed, Quintus Maximus was killed and the entire Legion 1 was destoyed.

Can I say crap again? Whatever I say, I called it a night. This is just too much fun for one person to stand.

I promise: I will post pictures soon. And I do hope this helps. If not, I can stop.

~ Dani ~

[tone]

oooh, that sounds painful.

Third, what's the benefit? What does my general or governor get for being a senator? If it's just influence, then - to be honest - I'll probably ignore it. I'm not finding influence to be that helpful in the game - but I could be wrong. And getting my general stuck in a city isn't going to make me happy.

The benefit for getting senators is ultimately that only higher ranking senators will be able to get legatus and legatus legionis traits once you hit the marian reforms.


That's weird about the corona triumphalis trait - I'll check the conditions....although I think it's if someone hits 9 on the battle counter.

[Aristotle's Folly]

Image Gallery 01 (Unedited)

From the Battle of Etruria (Nepos v. Hannibal, Turn 1):

Desperate Measures - Allied Cavalry trying to flank Hannibal's Cavalry (note the sky and color balance are perfect):



Nemis - Hannibal at the Battle of Etruria:



Like True Romans - Allied infantry fighting to the death at the Battle Etruria:



City Pictures

From the Siege of Arritum by Hannibal:

Arritium from a Distance:



Tenament:



City Street:



From the Siege of Ariminum:

Street Tenament: (Note the brilliant sky and color pop)



Street Fighting:



FPS is recorded in lower right hand corner.

~ Dani ~

[Aristotle's Folly]

And, just for kicks, an image I PSed:

Greek Tarentine Cavalry at the Battle of Genoa:



~ Dani ~

[dvk901]

Ok, a few comments....and thank you for the great reports. I'm going thru the EDCT right now, and decided that I'll just axe the movement issues for the Governors. Given the feedback from everyone here (negative), it's pretty apparent I'll be lynched in the general forum, so might as well get rid of it now. LOL

I'm encouraged...not necessarily by the lack of money (which is not so much a good thing......but by the fact that reworking the traits has resulted in less of a bonanza at the start and increased the challenge. What this tells me is that trait bonuses are much more 'spartan', and this should have a good impact throughout the rest of the campaign, hopefully. At this point I think this campaign is a bit to hard...others may disagree....but my definition of 'hard' has never been 'no money'. In this game, no money = no hope. And that was not the case, certainly, with the Romans. They suffered hard times and were severely threatened, but they were always able to do 'something'. Again, in this game, being able to do 'something' to respond to this kind of threat means you need a bit of money.....to retrain, to recruit a few units, to improve a barracks or whatever. So maybe the script needs a boost to control the negatives during the rebellions.

Also, the troop morale bonuses were just insane before the trait rewrite.....so I wouldn't be surprised to see battles a bit more difficult for the player. I was very careful about morale bonuses, and gave them sparingly.

In response to the 'Ruined Lands' comments, I should explain a few things here that are going to become apparent anyway:

The economy in RS2 was designed with the intention that the player would have money if he tended to the economic stuff...build buildings to grow the economy. Choose wisely where and when to build what. The trait system in RTW, however, was designed like a rising line on a graph....if I build building 'A', my character gets trait 'B', which comes with this bonus 'C' that gives him a boost 'D' that in turn pushes the line upwards until at last, the line is just going straight up....IOW's, the traits were creating a money glut. This was because almost everything you did as a player rewarded the character based on what you did...you build a farm, he gets a farming bonus, you don't build a farm, he gets a farming negative bonus....and the system was full of these do's and don'ts. Also, the 'do's' tended always to outnumber the don'ts, so even if if you didn't build a farm, you could always build one or two and then the character gets rid of the negative traits and starts getting bonuses.

Aside from the fact that the above is a poor reflection of reality, it was in my opinion the reason we STILL needed a script to yank money from the player even though we tried so hard to control this beast financially.

In reworking the traits and ancillaries, I was determined to follow through on things that Calvin and I had discussed long ago....making them less 'gamey' and a lot more informative, and reducing the impact on the money situation. Here is an example of what I've done to one the very important traits:

;----------------------------------------
Trait GoodAdministrator
Characters family
NoGoingBackLevel 8
AntiTraits BadAdministrator, Personality_Procrastinator, Personality_Dishonest

Level Bureaucrat
Description Bureaucrat_desc
EffectsDescription Bureaucrat_effects_desc
Threshold 4

Effect Management 1

Level Bureaucrat2
Description Bureaucrat2_desc
EffectsDescription Bureaucrat2_effects_desc
Threshold 8

Effect Management 2
Effect Squalor -1

Level Bureaucrat3
Description Bureaucrat_desc
EffectsDescription Bureaucrat3_effects_desc
Threshold 16

Effect Management 3
Effect Squalor -2

Level Skilled_Bureaucrat
Description Skilled_Bureaucrat_desc
EffectsDescription Skilled_Bureaucrat_effects_desc
Threshold 24

Effect Management 4
Effect Squalor -3

Level Skilled_Bureaucrat2
Description Skilled_Bureaucrat2_desc
EffectsDescription Skilled_Bureaucrat2_effects_desc
GainMessage Skilled_Bureaucrat2_gain_desc
Threshold 32

Effect Management 5
Effect Squalor -4
Effect Law 1

Level Skilled_Bureaucrat3
Description Skilled_Bureaucrat3_desc
EffectsDescription Skilled_Bureaucrat3_effects_desc
GainMessage Skilled_Bureaucrat3_gain_desc
Threshold 40

Effect Management 6
Effect Squalor -5
Effect Law 2

Level Superb_Administrator
Description Superb_Administrator_desc
EffectsDescription Superb_Administrator_effects_desc
Threshold 48

Effect Management 7
Effect Squalor -7
Effect Law 3

;------------------------------------------
;Trigger control trait
;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodAdministrator_Passed_Over
Characters family
Hidden

Level GoodAdministrator_Passed_Over
Description GoodAdministrator_Passed_Over_desc
EffectsDescription No_Effect_effects_desc
Threshold 2

;------------------------------------------
;This trait triggered for Goodadministrator passover recipients
;-------------------------added Squalor Penalty
Trait BadAdministrator
Characters family
NoGoingBackLevel 4
AntiTraits GoodAdministrator

Level Jobsworth
Description Jobsworth_desc
EffectsDescription Jobsworth_effects_desc
Threshold 6

Effect Squalor 2
Effect Management -1
Effect Unrest 1

Level Administratively_Inept
Description Administratively_Inept_desc
EffectsDescription Administratively_Inept_effects_desc
Threshold 12

Effect Squalor 3
Effect Management -2
Effect Unrest 2

Level Stunningly_Incompetent
Description Stunningly_Incompetent_desc
EffectsDescription Stunningly_Incompetent_effects_desc
Threshold 24

Effect Squalor 4
Effect Management -3
Effect Unrest 3
Effect Influence -1

The character who does get the Good Administrator trait has a seven level trait through which to progress, which IS based largely on the presence of buildings....but not just one building. Rather, on the presence of many important buildings. So even a guy who gets this is going to have to earn it over time as he (you) build up the city. Characters who do NOT get the Good Administrator trait will get (eventually) the 'passover' trait...which can mean two things. First, they may just never (and never will) get the Good Administrator trait, or second, may get the Bad Administrator trait. The character with a Good Admin. trait will never get the Bad one, and vica-versa. The character with a passover trait will never get the good one.
This will create valuable Governors.....people who can really manage things, and their cities will really prosper. The character who doesn't get the Good or Bad trait will just be 'neutral'.....maybe a decent Governor with other good traits, but not necessarily a good administrator.

Ancillary-wise, the guy with a Bad Administrator trait, or neither good or bad, may get a 'helper ancillary' to offset his lack of talents. As in the case of Decimus Maximus in Lilybeum...the guy is just plain a bad farmer, but he may get an 'Overseer' trait that offsets his badness a bit. This is intended to be entirely random....Good Administrator, Good Farmer, Good Trader, Good Builder, Good whatever...and their Bad counterparts. Building the farms would be a good idea, because:

;------------------------------------------
Trigger trigger_overseer
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
Condition EndedInSettlement
and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
and SettlementBuildingExists >= farms+2
and Trait City_Has_Governor >= 1
and Trait BadFarmer > 0
and Attribute NavalCommand < 6
and IsGeneral

AcquireAncillary overseer chance 10

The character may then get the Overseer ancillary which looks for 'BadFarmer' (that one has it), and Farms+2 or above. This offsets the penalty of the character's bad farming with an Overseer who knows what he's doing.

Note also that this will help eliminate what I call 'bonus stacking'. The character already has the top level of Good Farmer, or Good anything, and then gets ancillaries or other traits that stack on top of what he has to the point where bonuses get ridiculous. So a guy who is a Good Farmer will not get the Overseer ancillary.

I've also tried, as you'll see in the following example, to be rid of the RTW-ish "This guy really stinks" kind of descriptions for characters:

¬--------------------Trait BadAdministrator

{Jobsworth} Poor Bureaucratic Skill

{Jobsworth_desc}
This man is a stickler for the rules, having little imagination where paperwork is concerned. He tries hard to fill the role he has been given, but isn't very successful.

{Jobsworth_effects_desc}
-1 Management, +2 to squalor (decreases population growth and public order), +1 Unrest (More Unrest)

¬--------------------

{Administratively_Inept} Poor Administrator

{Administratively_Inept_desc}
This man lacks skill in every possible area of government. His lack of talent doesn't trouble him in the slightest, even though others find it frustrating.

{Administratively_Inept_effects_desc}
-2 Management, +3 to squalor (decreases population growth and public order), +2 Unrest (More Unrest)

¬--------------------

{Stunningly_Incompetent} Incompetent Administrator

{Stunningly_Incompetent_desc}
This man's assistants don't even pretend to involve him in administrative work anymore. His inability to grasp simple ideas is an embarrassment, and his interference causes more problems than if he'd just go away!.

The idea being that just because someone can't 'administrate' doesn't mean they are a fool, or incompetent, or deserve a bashing. They just lack talent is all.

**************************************************

The theory of all this is to 'level the line on the graph'......so it rises slowly, and may even dip when a character dies who was a valuable asset. It's also to create a better variety of characters who are really good and valuable, a wider base of the 'mundane' characters who are just 'ok', and a few who are worthless. That's the intent, anyway.