French students protest new labor proposal

[Fondler]

Get the story:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe....ap/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/4818918.stm
http://news.google.com

Begin the Discussion:

As much as I disagree with the protesters in general, I truely hope they succeed. This is obviously not because I think they are right, but because I know they are wrong.

You see, the students are protesting because the new change in the labor laws would allow businesses to fire employees under 26 at any time for (almost) any reason. The students feel that this won't help the horrendous unemployment rate for people in their age group - 23%. When looking at the immediate issue, the students are correct. Unfortunately, as is typical in a situation where the masses press for a specific policy, the policy they advocate is one to confront the symptom, not the problem. In this case, the symptom is high unemploment and the solution proposed is don't let businesses fire workers. That would be great if the underlying assumption that businesses have unlimited resources and face no financial difficulties were true, but anyone with any common sense knows this isn't true.

So basically, what I see here is the student protests decades ago that brought about a heavy marxist influence in France coming back to bite the French students in the butt. And how to the Students respond? - "Lets fix the problem by making the same mistakes!"

That's progress my beloved progressives. I concede to your infinitely superior economic knowledge - you are all totally smarter than us lowly pro-capitalist fools.

[Jab5450]

Get the story:

So basically, what I see here is the student protests decades ago that brought about a heavy marxist influence in France coming back to bite the French students in the butt. And how to the Students respond? - "Lets fix the problem by making the same mistakes!"

That's progress my beloved progressives. I concede to your infinitely superior economic knowledge - you are all totally smarter than us lowly pro-capitalist fools.

Well spoken!!!

[Erik]

It's an interesting and complex issue.
It's realy very hard to predict how this law wil work out.

On one hand corporations wil prefer to hire young people because they know they can easily fire them if they are no longer needed. (if they hire older people they are "stuck" with them")

On the other hand this means young people wil also be the first to be fired during a recession.

The question is what wil th eeconomy do.
If the economy is growing this law wil reduce youth unemployment.
But if the economy falls into a recession youth unemployment wil suddently skyrocket.

Finally you have to consider that, with this law, young people wil have a very hard time borrowing money from banks, making if much more expensive to buy a house or invest in their education.

[Last Roman]

we already have a thread on this

[imb39]

That thread is old, at least it is several pages back. A new thread is appropriate - imb39

[Kanaric]

That's progress my beloved progressives. I concede to your infinitely superior economic knowledge - you are all totally smarter than us lowly pro-capitalist fools.

Glad you admit it.

[Carach]

oh france, will you never learn?

LoL.

[Fondler]

Sorry, I didn't see the other thread, but I'm glad this one will stay up!

Also, sorry to be so brief and cynical in the first post there, but what kind of discussion would I get going if i'm not a little controversial?

I do however stand by my assertion that the fundamental problems facing Frances economy stem from the massive level of socializtion in the law books. As a libertarian, I think that it is absolutely imperative that people be allowed to organize freely. However, I do not believe that the government should not back either businesses or unions through legislation. If there is enough if a problem, then enough people will organize to force the businesses to do what they should - that's the way the labor market works in a free market.

With respect to this particular law, I agree with Erik ( ) this is a complex issue, but I do not think that it is important enough to warrant violent protest. I appreciate the French students' conviction to their cause, but I believe it is misplaced.

[RusskiSoldat]

I'll post what I posted in another forum:

I just did some research and I have to say this:
WTF, those Euros are lazy.
Democratic socialism is nothing short of a slow evil: it combines the best in democracy and socialism, while rejecting the sacrifices that have to be made to keep the government running.
You can't have both a free market and complete economic security for yourself, it's a choice (or at best a compromise) and for the former you have to pay by potential poverty and slavery, while for the latter you have to pay with practically all economic and medium to high degrees of your social freedom.
This law is made to go towards more in free market (let's face it, it's easier for Europe to go into Free Market than Central Planning right now as they are a fundamentally free market based) to get rid of the dangers in the compromise, but those lazy bastards go against the concept of competition!
Even in the USSR, there was competition in factories, there were promotions, and while a man could not be unemployed he could either be transfered to a horrible job (street cleaner in tiny Siberian village) or arrested for sabotage.
Socialism, ironically, takes competition to the extreme, with far higher potential payoffs, far lower potential pitfalls and a far large "middle class".
You can't have it both ways- the people of Europe (when I say Europe I always mean western Europe) have to make a choice.

Please remain civil. You may not like the European ways of doing things but there's no need for insults. - imb39

[JuanHose]

I think they're more than justified to protest at this. If this law was brought in, it would hand huge power to business at the expense of young people's job security. How would you feel knowing that you could be sacked without pay-off for no decent reason? If the company wanted to cut staff numbers, where over 25s would be entitled to redundancy pay, who do you think would be the first to go? What a great way to treat the future generations of the country. Its simply incredible that in a land where "egalitie" is supposed to be one of the foundations, that it can somehow be fair for men and women of age 25 and under to be treated differently to their elders. The students aren't asking for there to be no way to get rid of workers, just parity with their older colleagues. Sure, when the law was first proposed, the idea behind it was good. Lets encourage businesses who would be otherwise reluctant to take on potentially unreliable young people, by saying they can get rid of them at any time for no cost. Great, but does anyone believe that they wouldn't abuse this? The solution is as usual, at neither extreme of the scale. Just employ young people on short-term contacts. They have rights, and businesses can still fire those who do not prove themselves up to the job without ruining themselves financially. It works in Britain, don't see why it wouldn't in France.

[Sétanta]

When aren't the French complaining about their own laws these days?

[Erik]

When aren't the French complaining about their own laws these days?

Yeah, the French are ALWAYS protesting against something.
It's part of their culture, a tradition that started with the mother of all protests: the French Revolution.

I think it's good to keep this in mind if you watch stories like this.
Next month the French wil probably protest against the shape of their potatoes or something.