Last German conscripts leave military...

[Farnan]

http://www.military.com/news/article...pt-intake.html

A good move by Germany. About time they ended that era of its history.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Good, I can't agree with conscription philosophically. Would suck to be the last guys to go through it.

[SPECTREtm]

Great. If only the danish government would follow this move, as 90% of all concripts are actually volunteers anyway. It would free up lots of money for the real soldiers.

[Adar]

Swedens last conscripts also recently left (23rd june).

Personally I think it is a bad move since conscription encourages national cohesion, is cost effective and is a valuable tool to show that we as citizens have a responsibility to our nation.

Great. If only the danish government would follow this move, as 90% of all concripts are actually volunteers anyway. It would free up lots of money for the real soldiers.

No it wouldn't. Professional soldiers are far more expensive than conscripts which means that you either get an extremely small force or an extremely underfunded force. The Dutch army is for example unable to afford their planned recruits and Sweden got similar issues.

Personally I think the best system is to use conscription to train soldiers and then recruit them for a limited time to conduct peace keeping missions under the leadership of experienced officers and NCOs.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

No it wouldn't. Professional soldiers are far more expensive than conscripts which means that you either get an extremely small force or an extremely underfunded force.

You get a much smaller force, but one a lot more capable, and certainly one superior qualitatively to the conscripts.

[Adar]

You get a much smaller force, but one a lot more capable, and certainly one superior qualitatively to the conscripts.

Training a modern soldier can be done in less than a year and even American (professional) soldiers can be sent to Iraq with less than a year of training. I think Captain Jin mentioned that he was sent to Iraq after roughly six months of training which he felt was slightly inadequate.

After 9-11 months of training your really cannot do much else than either go to war or reach your peak level of combat efficiency. Nations with a large military and significant foreign commitments are able to deal with this by retraining or sending soldiers abroad but soldiers from a minor or non-interventionist country won't have this "luxury".

So professional just means that you are stuck with paying wages to people who are stuck in a limbo of repetition training and little actual work. With a conscription army you instead train the soldier, release him to civilian life and then get a huge pool of soldiers whom you can recruit to serve on peace keeping missions.

The soldier will require a brief training period with his unit before sent abroad (~3 months in Swedish army) but the advantage is that you get the soldier extremely cheap during the training period (1/8 of the wage) and won't have to pay for more than 3 months of training when preparing to send the soldier on a mission.

Yes, the only country with a capable army on this entire continent lowering its military budget sounds like a tremendous idea.

Only nation with a capable army in Europe?

Depends on what standard you use.

[RedGuard]

the fact that a lot of countries in europe rely on conscription is troublesome to me. yeah they may be more cost effective, but how cost effective do you really need to be when discussing your national security? its been proven throughout history that conscripts/draftees are not the way to go, as they usually don't want to be there and are just "Doing their time and getting out" mentality they are far less reliable than a soldier who want's to be there and knows just because the war is over he won't be released and has a sense of belonging.

that was a major problem in vietnam for the us over 68% were draftees, and were to do one tour and get out which was generally a year and some change. thus you don't retain the knowledge that soldier aquired and can't pass it on to the next generation and your doing the noobies a disservice by making them learn again what the guy before him already figured out. it was really the core "Professionals" that tought the new guys what to do as they had already seen a lot of .

back on topic, it seems to me that most european countries rely too much on this "Strength in unity" bs and just leech off the bigger countries militaries ie. Britian, Germany, France, Turkey....... USA. and in exchange have better economies because they have more money to spend in the private secotr percentage wise. I can tell you one thing though, its been historically proven than when you rely on another country to do something that is not in its best interest(like rushing to polands aid when Putin comes knocking)they will let you down everytime. then you have countries like mine that often rush in before knowing the full details of the story and end up getting stuck in a rut they can't get out of since 90% of these "Pusified" countries have backed out on you.(Not you Britian)

we'll see who saves your ass then. i can guarantee it will be us. if were not involved in another five wars

[Treize]

Personally I think it is a bad move since conscription encourages national cohesion, is cost effective and is a valuable tool to show that we as citizens have a responsibility to our nation.

I fully agree. Prehaps exception could be made for people following education? My country (and yours) do not really need huge forces anyway.

Personally I think the best system is to use conscription to train soldiers and then recruit them for a limited time to conduct peace keeping missions under the leadership of experienced officers and NCOs become reservists/second line troops.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Great. If only the danish government would follow this move, as 90% of all concripts are actually volunteers anyway. It would free up lots of money for the real soldiers.

90% are volunteers because its better to choose a role than to be drafted to become a grunt.

Actually, now there's no one to stop the Brits or French when they start dreaming of restoring past glory

The French are like the Italians, except instead of just wanting to make love they just want to sip wine and recite poems. Their glory days are over except when they send their military to fight British and American Wars.

[razor-]

90% are volunteers because its better to choose a role than to be drafted to become a grunt.

Not true at all, there is a far longer wait to serve your period in the combat troop regiments in Denmark than in any of the support regiments, even more so if you wanna be proffesional. Sometimes I do wonder if we should also abolish it as pretty much everyone nowadays are volunteers, 98% of my company (including me) was.

But I think it is important nonetheless, as it creates a large reserve of people in civil society who has military experience, which will make it easier to mobilise a large force should the total war scenario happen. A lot of the skills learned there are also good in civilian life.

Ideologically I think it is good for national cohession that everyone regardless of income are obligated to defend the country.

[SPECTREtm]

But I think it is important nonetheless, as it creates a large reserve of people in civil society who has military experience, which will make it easier to mobilise a large force should the total war scenario happen. A lot of the skills learned there are also good in civilian life.

I bet that the far majority of those who have served their 4 months term has forgotten pretty much all of it half a year down the road. Back when it was 9 months it made some sort of sense, but now it's a complete waste of resources for the military. The only thing I really remember from "bootcamp" was how to use the M/95, some radioproceedures, and how to conduct a military convoy, but most of that is actually because I went through HRU. Everything else was either dumped because they didn't have time or money to do anything meaningful. Hell, in the last 2 months we cut our week short by a day so we all could get drunk thursday. Hilarious, but not very educational. Even the 8 months (more like 6 in reality) of HRU seemed inadequate because of all the resouces being vasted on the conscripts who just came and went, the far majority never to return to the military.

I can't even fully describe how much I hated them as a konstabel (a real soldier). Some of them looked like they really tried to do their best and I didn't blame them as I've been in their shoes and through the meaningless 4 months, but the far majority of them were plain idiots who were just there because they couldn't find a job and just need to pass time on something... And the girls? Don't even get me started here. The only reason they were there was to enjoy the only time in their life where they would be literally bathing in dicks!

Ideologically I think it is good for national cohession that everyone regardless of income are obligated to defend the country.

Indeed, but if Denmark ever came into such a situation (highly unlikely) I don't think we would be lacking people willing to take up arms. We would be lacking equipment to arm them.

[Seether]

The French are like the Italians, except instead of just wanting to make love they just want to sip wine and recite poems. Their glory days are over except when they send their military to fight British and American Wars.

Isn't Libya lead by the French, or is that somehow France fighting a British and American war?

[SPECTREtm]

Denmark will only remain an active NATO member as long as the Social Democrats are kept out of power. Once they get back, which they sadly appear to do, in we'll become yet another european pacifist state. With an economy on a downspiral as they'll squander everything in their neverending quest for more wellfare and to make everyone "equally miserable"...

[Azog 150]

Denmark will only remain an active NATO member as long as the Social Democrats are kept out of power. Once they get back, which they sadly appear to do, in we'll become yet another european pacifist state. With an economy on a downspiral as they'll squander everything in their neverending quest for more wellfare and to make everyone "equally miserable"...

Because Denmark has gained oh so much from all those overseas interventions it has chosen to join in with

[Azog 150]

Glad to hear it. Its not like the USSR is knocking at their door anymore and this is long overdue.

It will be interesting to see if this leads to a changing in the way Germany's Armed Forces are utilised.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

So, at last we can feel safe...

[thelionheart]

So, at last we can feel safe...

whom do you mean by 'we' ?

[removeduser_487563287433]

Manuel I can only assume you mean that Germany will make a saving on this so can pay you more.

[Tyler_the_Great]

Manuel I can only assume you mean that Germany will make a saving on this so can pay you more.

Or that Germany is not going to try taking over the world... agian...

[alhoon]

Or that Germany is not going to try taking over the world... agian...