Help needed for the Seljuks of Rum.

[DevrimJan]

I've only recently started playing this mod, and may I say it AWESOME!!!!! However I'm running into big trouble when playing the Seljuks of Rum in the latest version. I just don't know what to do. I would greatly appreciate tips on what to build in terms of troops and buildings, and where to expand. Could you guys give me your ideas, +rep to everyone that posts tips and helpfull suggestions.

[chris7ian]

Never played with them, but the Greeks, and Georgians are overpowered. So focus on one or the other. Armenia would be easiest to expand into. Once the Greeks get going they steamroll everyone, blitz them. Georgia hopefully will be @ war with the Seljuks and Kipchaks.

Build roads, markets, etc early. Other things can wait.

[Dago Red]

Micro manage those horse archers! Wear the enemy down with arrows before trying to engage in any serious melee. Those frontiersmen are actually pretty strong infantry fighters too.

[DevrimJan]

Thanks, but in regards to the rebel siege of Ankara, should I move my troops from Konya to attack them? If I do that I don't get my besieged forces from Ankara as reinforcements, and, while I can still win the battle, I lose most of my army from Konya, the army I need to blitz the Greeks and Georgians.

[chris7ian]

Thanks, but in regards to the rebel siege of Ankara, should I move my troops from Konya to attack them? If I do that I don't get my besieged forces from Ankara as reinforcements, and, while I can still win the battle, I lose most of my army from Konya, the army I need to blitz the Greeks and Georgians.

If you can't sally forth and win then I would bring reinforcements. Also the Seljuk historically took the interior of Anatolia, but for gaming purposes taking coastal settlements will help you grow quicker.

Use stacks of the cheapest HA's in guerrilla tactics. Doesn't matter if you win just kill the general. Lay a lot of ambushes so hopefully you catch them off guard.

[free2run]

If I were you I would wait for the next patch. Because the romans are far overpowered. I have also tired a few Ottoman campains but failed. Romans are just unstopable. They can recruit heavy axemen and swordsman just after some turns. Also they use your best force horse archers against you. Because they got money and merchenary pool. The same for Georgians. The Kypchaks can not even stop them. Also KOJ will be one of your strong enemies.

[Dago Red]

Ottoman campains but failed.

They are not the Ottomans, they are the Seljuk Turks of Rum. You make an error here that is somewhat instructive though. The Turks of Rum had a good run for a while, but the First Crusade just 70 years ago decimated them, deprived them of some of their major population centers including their functional capitol and reversed their ascendancy.

Now they are just trying to survive. They should be one of the hardest factions to play, surrounded on all sides by enemies and so called allies who do not come to their aid. In my opinion the game should be balanced so that the player's only true hope, barring extreme luck in a minority of games, is simply to survive until an Ottoman emergence for most games. Only then should the tables turn in favor of the Turks and more powerful units.

That said, I've not played them yet in 2.3 so they may well be too hard given the ERE juggernaut.

Battles rarely seemed to be decisive for them during this time. They used hit and run tactics, wearing an enemy out over a period of time (the Ayyubids did the same, and is largely how they defeated the allied Crusader army at Hattin). The problem is that the Turks of Rum don't have much to close the deal with after all the wearing down and you'll lose your precious horse archers and best troops trying to finish the enemy off.

Use stacks of the cheapest HA's in guerrilla tactics. Doesn't matter if you win just kill the general. Lay a lot of ambushes so hopefully you catch them off guard.

Agreed. Try to wear down incoming enemy forces over a period of turns, keep retreating, ambush, retreat, etc. Don't risk your best troops doing this, just make sure your enemy bleeds the whole way.

On a more specific note @ DevrimJan, in a relief army situation like the one at Ankara.... you can still use both of your forces.

1. Move your relief army from Konya without attacking, to a spot next to Ankara in a position to be able to attack the siege army -- so it's touching both your besieged city and the enemy army.

2. Select your army inside Ankara, and initiate the attack with them.

3. The relief army from Konya will appear as reinforcements. Now you can move them onto the field and arrange them for battle at your leisure while your troops behind the walls stay in position waiting for them (be sure to uncheck the AI control so you have control of both forces).

[saglam2000]

They Rum Seljuks should be hard, but not a speed bump, the ERE are too strong in this version and since the ERE gets 2 full stacks of units if the players are the Rum seljuks + money script that gets them out of debt in 2 turns and they only have 1 enemy to worry about, you

[DevrimJan]

The problem with using horse archers is that archers are so weak in this mod, they cause very few casualties. How do you guys use them?

[Dago Red]

The problem with using horse archers is that archers are so weak in this mod, they cause very few casualties. How do you guys use them?

Exactly as I said, to wear the enemy down, over time. Don't expect massive casualties inflicted in 10 minutes or even during 1 full battle -- but if you can wing your HA's around on the flanks or rear they will inflict some significant damage. Remember, the shield value only counts for the front and I think missiles negate some of the defense skill as well (anyone know?) In any case, you can decimate light units from the flanks and rear with missiles.

Historically speaking the inability of the Turks missiles to inflict decisive casualties during this time against heavily armored opponents was indeed their main problem. but you can certainly deal damage doing what I described above. Also keep in mind you may have to some armor piercing HA's, but they are only useful at close range.

[tavix]

Spend all your money on troops , dont make buildings at start and atack the Romans , the AI is slow .

In my campaign ( 11 human players ) the seljuk player smashed the romans ( AI ) so far . Its turn 9 and the Romans lost almost all Anatolia . Only Herakleia and Trebizond remain in Asia . Well , the its a difference , he's at peace with Armenia and Georgia.

[sughdi]

>is simply to survive until an Ottoman emergence for most games. Only then should the tables turn in favor of the Turks and more powerful units.

the seljuks were wiped out by the mongols, the ottomons emerged when one of the anatolian khaganates(?) rebelled and was then ruled by the Ottomon family... who went on to conquer the other petty anatolian states. Also janissary units are available right from the get go... which is painfully innacurate

[Dago Red]

the seljuks were wiped out by the mongols, the ottomons emerged when one of the anatolian khaganates(?) rebelled and was then ruled by the Ottomon family... who went on to conquer the other petty anatolian states.

Right, the Seljuk Turks of Rum (in Anatolia) are what we are talking about, not to be confused with the Seljuks further to the east (called "the Great," at one point).

And um...gosh.... people sure do get offed around here a lot! I hope there's not some assassin lurking the streets with a ban stick.

[Tureuki]

Dago

Rum smashed by Mongols too

[Dago Red]

Oh true, the way it was worded I thought he meant the other Seljuks.... yes, Mongols smashed. Mongol says, "I must smash all!"

[The Noble Lord]

Move east first, do not touch the Byzantines if you can because they appear to be too strong and too hard at first. Just go east if you can, safest and easiest route.

[DevrimJan]

The campaign wouldn't be so hard if there was no rebel stack besieging Ankara. That stack is very elite, and, when I tried the method Dago Red described the rebels would ambush me, as their stack is superior. Why is that stack elite? They have a unit of freaking Varangian warriors and mercenary Latin knights!

[Jugurta]

you don't have to kill that stack of doom anyway just move a unit close and they'll break the siege, and as The Noble Lord suggested just go east, take Syria and northern Iraq and the jewel of all jewels : Antioch, you can even go throu Armenia and beat everyone to it, of course you are still in pretty situation, with enemies all around you but now you have gold and you have Halab fortress

[Yesman101]

I believe that stack is a way of showing us what can possibly come from the ascension script.... rebel king maybe?

But anyway, I know what to do!

First off, use the army from Konya to attack the rebel army on one side of ankara not around teh forsets by moving your stack slightly to the left. Then use the Ankara army to attack them. Use the Ankara army to assume a defensive position, wait until reinforcements, destroy cavalry using Ghulams, destory infantry using horse archers.

After that, take Sivas, expand west, get alliances with others around you. Get alliance namely with Abbasids and Seljuks of Iraq. I normally found that when you have an alliance with them they don't go to war thus allowing the Seljuks of Iraq to put up better resistance against Georgians.

After expanding west a bit (go only as far about malayta and the castle next to malayta I believe) Keep spies around ERE and watch their movements. keep your spy around antioch as well to watch the ERE's movements there. I always found that when you don't go to war with them, they always sends stacks to take Antioch.

They should go to war against KOJ after that, so sign an alliance with them. Keep your armies west until you see about 2-3 ERE stacks around Antioch. THEN you start the rush. Also, get alliance with KOJ so you can then ally with Armenia, and keep cilicia out of your way.

The key to the Turks isn't about rushing first. Its about finding the right time TO rush. You may lose a settlement or two, but once you get the hang of their forces you will Conquer them in due time (and due time could be a while.)

Anyway, about army composition, always recruit Askari Nobles when they are availible. always get horsearchers BEHIND enemy army to inflict massive damage. When you attack ERE attack Trebizond or Nicaea VERY FIRST so they don't get cavalry. Use mass, weak horsearchers, and spread them around ERE infantry columns like this:


------------------horsearcher--------------------------- horsearcher ------------------------------horsearcher


----horsearcher --------------Infantry ---> XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX -------------------horsearcher


---------horsearcher ----------------------------horsearcher-------------------------------------------------------- horsearcher


Keep your horsearcher units seperate and mobile. Keep them away from infantry. If ERE has cavalry, use Generals, Askari Nobles and Ghulams to drive them off the field. Horsearchers, especially the tribal ones, should first focus on weakening infantry. only have a few horsearchers in front to keep the nfantry from turning around. Almost all your horsearchers should be shooting the rear.

If you need more tips, just ask

[DevrimJan]

Ok, so, I played one game as the SOR were I got quite far, but the Romans then go to war with me. I might be able to post the save tomorrow.