Arcadians?

[Wakizashi]

Please forgive the question if its only already been asked (or known). Been lurking around, looking at your work and I am in awe of the caliber of work you have done (all the team).

So here's the question> The Arcadians are more a descriptive term for the people north of Sparta, near Mantinea (mountainious area), but are not themselves a city polis. Will they have any role in the MOD? Perhaps a mercenary unit baring their name as such? I guess I'm just a fan of the area, if you can be such a thing. The people of "Arcadia" do play a part in some significant history throughout the period.

Thanks in advance.

[Maron]

i agree...i think that arcadian mercs should be included and should be really good.

after all... that is what the arcadians were famous for

[SARMATIAN LEADER]

maybe they should be they played some part that period in Peloponnisian war,but they were a secondary power in Greece(always)

[Sidus Preclarum]

More generally : what will be the difference between poleis and ethne greeks ?

[apostate]

the arcadians were a greek stock of people who were considered to be sort of more autochthons in Peloponnesos
...we already have Mantineia and Tegea in the map...Tegeatis itself is made a rather small province different from Arcadia and controlled by Sparta (if u havent seen map screenshot yet, ask for it )

..of course there were several more Arcadian cities, but due to the mountairy landscape of that area that leaves little free space, and the limitation in the provinces that the games engine impose, there cant be more Arcadian cities

the arcadians are not a faction to play with because they havent yet formed a league of their own (as they did later) and because they dont have anything unique in their warfare or in their starting provinces that would add interest in the gameplay (like for example the cretans have in warfare, and we have made a small "tresspass" with joining some of the cretan cities in a a faction or the rhodians and the locrians who have ownings in italy)

-up to now it wasnt suggested any region specifi merc hoplite unit....only a single one is planned
...the arcadians of course did form merc units (like in the greek merc army of the "anabasis") but i dont think they had something so special to make them unique...if we do so then i guess we will have to do the same with many more local units...we already have too many city-specific hoplites and its unecessary i think to go deeper in that area

...for now we have a Mantinian hoplite unit and a Tegian too...plus the skiritai who were drawn from skiritis region which technically belongs to arcadia too

More generally : what will be the difference between poleis and ethne greeks ?

well at first a specific greek stock of people may be found in more than one cities on the game...like for example the boiotians who will be represented with 4 cities (Thebai,Plataia,Thespiai and Orchomenos)
..the 3 of them will belong to the boiotian league faction and Plataia will go to Athens since already in the strting date of the game is allied to the athenians

...so the cities/poleis,the greek races/ethne and the factions will be 3 issues that not necessarily will match...
other example is the "rhodians cities" faction which besides the 2 rhodian cities present in the map will include 2 more dorian cities of the dorian 6-city league of the area and also 3 rhodian colonies in the west....

corinthians will have besides their city, 3 colonies of theirs in the sea west of peloponnesos, athenians will have cities controled or allied by them other than athens,sparta the same and so on

in other cases the cities owned and the races will match...like for thessalians,locrians,ionians (more or less) etc

*but i dont go on until i m sure i well understood the Q, because i dont want again to lose contact with Canaveral as it had happened sometime in the past :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: *

[Seleucos of Olympia]

As far as unique Arcadian units are concerned, I seem to remember reading in Pausanias’ ‘Arcadica’ (or was it Diodorus Sicelus?) that some Arcadians had formed special units of female hoplites that were used to surprise and rout Spartan phalanxes (the Spartans were particularly averse to hurting women and children, so this had a profound demoralizing effect on them). But such units, even if they were to be implemented, would only apply to a specific Arcadian faction and not as mercenaries or AOR units, so I don’t think they belong in this mod.
Maybe if the faction limit is raised in M2TW (CA has announced that they are looking into making it around 30, although they’ve been silent about it ever since) we can have some more factions in Greece in a new version of Hegemonia. I’d especially like to see an Elian faction (they were a formidable power back then, although strictly neutral), or the equally reclusive Achaians.

[deadcell87]

Maybe if the faction limit is raised in M2TW (CA has announced that they are looking into making it around 30, although they’ve been silent about it ever since) we can have some more factions in Greece in a new version of Hegemonia. I’d especially like to see an Elian faction (they were a formidable power back then, although strictly neutral), or the equally reclusive Achaians.

Whoa whoa whoa there buddy. No one in the team has yet even started talking about a Hegemonia into M2:TW, so lets not go saying things that can stirr up things .

[apostate]

As far as unique Arcadian units are concerned, I seem to remember reading in Pausanias’ ‘Arcadica’ (or was it Diodorus Sicelus?) that some Arcadians had formed special units of female hoplites that were used to surprise and rout Spartan phalanxes (the Spartans were particularly averse to hurting women and children, so this had a profound demoralizing effect on them). But such units, even if they were to be implemented, would only apply to a specific Arcadian faction and not as mercenaries or AOR units, so I don’t think they belong in this mod.
Maybe if the faction limit is raised in M2TW (CA has announced that they are looking into making it around 30, although they’ve been silent about it ever since) we can have some more factions in Greece in a new version of Hegemonia. I’d especially like to see an Elian faction (they were a formidable power back then, although strictly neutral), or the equally reclusive Achaians.

erm i have no knowledge of the female hoplites used by arcadians but i assume u should refer to a later age than the mods timeframe.....could u plz specify the age and give some references?

as for the spartans indeed they cosnidered it disnoured to counter weak individuals or usually hunt down routing enemy, so that way the argives saved their city after a crushing defeat by placing weak individuals lead by a woman to face spartans

-well the Elians and the Arcadians arent good choices (given the limit of 20 factions) since most of the mods timeframe were allied to the spartans...we ended up with the best faction setup after taking in consideration many parameters, along with what had happened in reality

..for exampel we chose the crotonians than the sybarites since 4 years after the mods starting date, sybaris was destoryed for ever...although in the games starting date was a very strong and powerful faction leading a huge army composed of 4 ethnicities...but in reality it had only 4 years of life

..same for Elians and Arcadians....in reality (as most of the peloponnesians) they were to much attached to lacedaimonians at that time

-well we dont mod MED 2...

[Aismov]

If you read it in Diodorus Siculus I would take anything you read as far as military stuff with a heavy grain of salt. Diodorus was fascinated with cool little gadgets and wasn't beyond "slightly" embellishing things that were used to tell a good story.

For example during the seige of Tyre by Alexander, Diodorus has the Tyrians shooting (yes, shooting), now get this... tridents (of all things... how literary/ironic for a island peoples) attached to ropes into the shields of the Macedonians and then by some mechanism pulling on the rope and either pulling the soldier off the siege tower or taking his shield off him.

[Kleomenis]

Dear Seleuce i didn't know this story about the arcadian women, so it is always good to know new things. it was nice to mention it.