Bhutan

[Denny Crane!]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/shows/vine/

Listen to Thursdays show and skip forward to 1:40 and listen to the commentary about bhutan.

They only got TV in 99, they listen to music. Compassion overides competition, they shun the global economy. They live poorly and they like it. The worship of money overides the wellbeing of future generations and they don't like it. Advertising for a lot of major products is banned. Its a kingdom but with elected ministers.

They believe Gross national happiness is a better judge of progress than GDP.

They noticed that urbanisation brought a shift of population to the city and a rise in crime and loss of culture so they changed education to promote rural lifestyles. The importance of family community and happiness, buddhism influences it heavily.

I can guaruntee you this place has problems and is not perfect but have we got it wrong? Are we striving in the wrong direction?

It is certainly true that we are doing virtually nothing to help the environment, we are sacrificing future generations lives for profit.

Peter

[removeduser_426582376423734]

We are born with these ideals, and we are used to it. For example, I am against capitalism (Modern Marxist) but I use the internet to get my view across. Should I not use a feather and ink?

[Sétanta]

I am a capitalist (duh)

I think that it is the most effective system, in correlation to how it relates with the Government, People and Corporations.

Socialism is more efficient, but only if all those three key players are playing the same game. Otherwise it is a mess, one that destroys the economy.

[danzig]

I am a capitalist (duh)

I think that it is the most effective system, in correlation to how it relates with the Government, People and Corporations.

Socialism is more efficient, but only if all those three key players are playing the same game. Otherwise it is a mess, one that destroys the economy.

Which is why (imo) you see socialist-like societies work much better in smaller population based countries. More population = bigger pool of people with different ideas and views and less connected with each other due to sheer size. The difference imo is when abused capitalism is basically the fault of the population who allow themselves to be overrun by excessive, commericalism etc socialism when abused is the fault of those in charge.

[Last Roman]

I think capitalism is better than socialism, but a heavily regulated capitalism is much better than a truely free market.

[Denny Crane!]

Has anyone actually listened to the excerpt? Considered what was said?

[Kanaric]

Only unregulated business is wrong as businesses have been proven without a shadow of doubt to be pure evil when left to themselves.

You can't have complete capitalism.... i think our system in the US is good if laws were enforced.

[Siblesz]

I don't think this is about capitalism vs. socialism, but about retaining the human soul and setting our life priorities straight. Our modern society is primerily based on one thing: money. Whether you have it or you don't, you need money in our world in order to succeed. This tends to create very materialist societies in which human values and principles are set aside and replaced by the seven deadly sins (you know em').

Bhutan is a great example of the difference between the worst of Western and the best of Eastern philosophy when applied to modern society. Its society will soon turn modern, for no nation can stop globalization in its tracks, so I don't think it's valid to start advertising (hehe, ironic) Bhutan as the perfect world environment for humans.

But it is still interesting to see how the new surge of alien information into Bhutan is causing the country to rupture away from their societal traditions and ethics, as crime has surged drastically and urbanization has begun to develop. It is an indication of what has happened and will happen to humanity, but of course, on a smaller scale.

[Denny Crane!]

I don't think this is about capitalism vs. socialism, but about retaining the human soul and setting our life priorities straight. Our modern society is primerily based on one thing: money. Whether you have it or you don't, you need money in our world in order to succeed. This tends to create very materialist societies in which human values and principles are set aside and replaced by the seven deadly sins (you know em').

Bhutan is a great example of the difference between the worst of Western and the best of Eastern philosophy when applied to modern society. Its society will soon turn modern, for no nation can stop globalization in its tracks, so I don't think it's valid to start advertising (hehe, ironic) Bhutan as the perfect world environment for humans.

But it is still interesting to see how the new surge of alien information into Bhutan is causing the country to rupture away from their societal traditions and ethics, as crime has surged drastically and urbanization has begun to develop. It is an indication of what has happened and will happen to humanity, but of course, on a smaller scale.

Certainly it is not valid to advertise it as the solution but it certainly should give us cause to re-examine the core values of our society.

It is very fatalistic to assume (though not neccessarily and evidently not wrong based on the evidence) that capatilism and globalisation inevitably lead to the chain reaction of materialism, corruption and sin. Is it however impossible to imagine a scenario where we instituted a "nanny state" that regulated consumer attitude and limited the rampant onslaught of capatilism.

It would require the complete seperation of business and government, and would impact the economy. Immediatly I hear people cry that it is stupid and unthinkable. Consider this though, examine the effects of capatilism and the chain reaction you mentioned on society. The institutions that are generally seen as cohesive to the social structure are breaking down, marriage, parenthood and religion. Morals and ethics are relative, violent crime is rising and the governments are so closely tied with business they legislate sometimes without any passing regard to the populace.

Combine the above with the theoretical but likely situation of a massive rise in population.

[The Fish]

I think the uninhibited pursuit of materialism that exists in most "developed" countries is clearly a drain on not just the environment but on human emotion and spirituality (not necessarily in a religious sense). This society champions, above all else, spending, even of money that we don't have. For most of the population, politics, world poverty, environmentalism...these things take a back seat to the latest car model or celebrity sighting. In previous generations, the most respected members of society were the most educated; philosophers, thinkers, artists. Now we only revere the rich.

However, I don't see a practical alternative to capitalism on the horizon. People can't just change their mindsets in such a dramatic way, and socialist experiements have consistently shown that people in power simply can't be trusted enough to make those societies work. Utopian movements have tried for centuries to craft perfect societies, and none of been sustainable. Even in Bhutan, change is coming. Those TVs may have arrived 50 years late, but they still arrived.

[Kanaric]

Well the thing is that any system could work well so long as you can trust the morality of people in high places.

Like our system in the US would work well, if they enforced their laws and didn't take corporate money to ignore their wrongdoings. They only attack people who either didn't contribute to their party or who didn't lobby them the most money, Democrats and Republicans both do this.

Reason why telecom companies like Comcast are given vitual monopolies however Microsoft and GE and OMGWTFPWNED by congress as soon as they try anything.

[Siblesz]

Well the thing is that any system could work well so long as you can trust the morality of people in high places.

Like our system in the US would work well, if they enforced their laws and didn't take corporate money to ignore their wrongdoings. They only attack people who either didn't contribute to their party or who didn't lobby them the most money, Democrats and Republicans both do this.

Reason why telecom companies like Comcast are given vitual monopolies however Microsoft and GE and OMGWTFPWNED by congress as soon as they try anything.

No society can retain its values if it becomes a modern participant of capitalism and globalization. With the search for money, comes the search for materialism. With materialism, comes corruption. With corruption, comes sin. It's a chain effect. Unless a country controls a small and educated population and its government is able to somewhat isolate its citizens from the outside influence of the capitalist market, like say, the Scandinavian countries, then society will corrupt itself with the coming of the said mentality. And even the exceptions of countries such as Norway, Denmark, and Canada are being damaged by the rapid pace of globalization and communication (especially the internet). It's a chain effect, and there's nothing nobody can do to stop it but to sit and watch.

This is not to say that I'm a socialist or that I'm advocating socialism. Far from it... I'm a pragmatist [though I'm turning more to the right (totalitarian) as the days go by]. I'm just making something out of nothing here... I'm expanding the conversation to include most of the world and our future realities that we will face... While not many people think of concepts on a global scale, I do just that ALWAYS.

[wilpuri]

I often wish that I had been born in a different age, but I was not. No use running and burying your head in the sand. But kudos to Bhutan for doing their own thing.

[RusskiSoldat]

I am a typical Russian: I have the utmost want and respect for law and order, but only when it is already built up and I'm forced to maintain it.
Russia will never have law and order without a strong leader to regulate everything, so for Russia I'm a stalinist.
For America, I'm as liberal as they get, because the less laws, the less of the things that I do are illegal and the more chance I have to screw over people and make money off of it

[Legiondude]

maybe if that Belarusian President rulled both russia and nelarus, russia would get out of the mess they are in now...

As for Bhutan, I doubt that people there are happy, I mean, they live, argh, never mind, peoples happynes is based on 3 things, wealth, health, and love[pussy] so ewalth is a big player....

Socialisam is better then Capitalisam, but it is much weaker..
Socialisam will fall more easy cose it is much easyer for it to get in top trubble, and wher as capitalisam, can tolerate, and is based on curropt leaders, socialisam need for its leaders to be honest....
So it is better, but weaker.....

Cind of like, a fast sports car, it takes you from place A to place B fast, but if you crash once, you will break the car...

And Capitalisam is a a slow truck, it takes long from A to B, but you can crash a lot of times and stil not ruin it...

A to B is the time it takes for the poeple to live good lives....

[Aristophanes]

Ridiculous. Ridiculous. Ridiculous.

People, people. Urbanization is the only reason we have technologies which make life liveable. Vaccines, agriculture producing enough to feed families, more efficient fuels, better transportation, legal and political structures that seek to minimize abuse, books, the internet, must I continue? Life without those things, but especially modern medicine, transportation, agriculture, fuels and housing was worse than MISERABLE. People died like flies from the simplest things. Women died in childbirth, children died in childbirth; children died of smallpox, chickenpox, whooping cough, scarlet fever, yellow fever, measles, mumps, post-natal bacterial infections; adults died of all of the above and more, tuberculosis, pneumonia, parasites, cholera, must I continue? People died in hunting accidents, in landslides, from exhaustion, from exposure, starvation, etc... Frankly, we're just not missing out...

Technology is environmentally friendly: the most capital-intense and technologically capable economies in the world, ex. Germany and Japan, use 1/4 as much oil per $ of GDP as do nations such as China and India.[Economist, March 2006] Even the wasteful United States uses almost 1/3 as much oil as China and India per dollar of GDP. If you compare environmental protections in the richest countries with those of the poorest, guess who comes out on top?

Technology enlivens our existence with myriad activities, sports, leisure pursuits, and intellectual pursuits. Work is far more interesting for us, with jobs so much more varied, than it would have been for the typical peasant villager of yore. "Hmmm, I wonder what I'll do with my life? Shall I increase my competency with the hoe, or with the flail? Gee, I hope I live long enough to inherit our plot of land..."

Obviously, a lot more could be said than this.

[Aristophanes]

It's simply irresponsible for a nation like Bhutan, which greatly benefits from technologies developed by others' cities and cultures, to then disparage the very mechanisms which now allow their 'idyllic' life to actually be IDYLLIC. I wonder how they'd feel if leprosy, tuberculosis, polio, syphilis and smallpox started re-appearing, or how they'd feel when their wives and daughters died in childbirth. I wonder how they'd feel when they stopped using steel and iron tools, and were forced to use stone and wood?

[Legiondude]

what has Bhutan ever done for thw world NOTHING thats what