What Secrets does the Church keep?

[Eric]

I've been thinking. What secrets does the Church withhold from the public? Take the Knights Templar, a massively successful and trusted Crusading Order, The Grand Master of the Templars answered only to the Papal Throne, they were loyal, powerful and fought fiercely for the Catholic Church wherever they went. Until they were brutally wiped out by Philip, King of France whose Inquistitions of the Templars was endorsed by the Church that the Templars had served so loyally. What sort of secret did the Templars unearth that would motivate such a quick and brutal destruction? A secret so powerful that it would rock the very foundations of the Roman Catholic Church and the Royalty of Europe?

Here's something to ponder:

Is this a man or a woman. And if it is indeed a woman, who is she and what connection with Christ did she have?

Who are the Freemasons? What do they really do in secrecy? Away from the prying eyes of the public. Are they really the Templars? Operating in secret to this day. And if they are in fact, the Templar Order revived, what secret is hidden beneath Rosslyn Chapel?

What is the Holy Grail, is it a cup or something else? If it is a person, a person who carried the Blood of Christ within them. If that is so, is it not possible that descendants of Him could be walking amongst us right now. It could very well be me. Or Adnin, or Sib. Or (Heaven Forbid) Drak.

What Secret is held within the Vatican?

[Somethindarker]

been reading the davinci code eh? supossedly to read that book is blasphemy at its highest. but i don't see the big deal i mean it is catalogued under FICTION i dunno why the evangelists, southern baptists, and christians are getting all riled up about. us catholics enjoy that book.

[Eric]

been reading the davinci code eh? supossedly to read that book is blasphemy at its highest. but i don't see the big deal i mean it is catalogued under FICTION i dunno why the evangelists, southern baptists, and christians are getting all riled up about. us catholics enjoy that book.

Yeah, I did read the Da Vinci Code which got me thinking. I asked my priest about it and he started getting all hush hush, refusing all questions and telling me that following that road only leads to grief and damnation. This is what got me curious since i'm Catholic and the Catholic Church plays a big part in the Da Vinci Code. Dan Brown may have stumbled upon something not meant to be known by the public. He published it as a fictional story in order to get the truth out. But maybe people haven't realized it yet.

[Ummon]

Yeah, I did read the Da Vinci Code which got me thinking. I asked my priest about it and he started getting all hush hush, refusing all questions and telling me that following that road only leads to grief and damnation. This is what got me curious since i'm Catholic and the Catholic Church plays a big part in the Da Vinci Code. Dan Brown may have stumbled upon something not meant to be known by the public. He published it as a fictional story in order to get the truth out. But maybe people haven't realized it yet.

Not really. Or at least, not in the sense you mean.

[Holger Danske]

been reading the davinci code eh? supossedly to read that book is blasphemy at its highest. but i don't see the big deal i mean it is catalogued under FICTION i dunno why the evangelists, southern baptists, and christians are getting all riled up about. us catholics enjoy that book.

Because they now it's the truth... I am reading the book right now and I must say it brings some very heffty arguments and 'evidence' for that the Church is endeed trying to hide something. And the whole part about Maria Magdalene might just be one of the things they don't want us to know!! But with books like The DaVinci Code will perhaps lead to something revolutionary in world history.. Braking the Church monopol on history!!

[bigfootedfred]

ooh the knights templar.

King phillip, sent out their arrest warrants all on the same day, Friday 13th of October.
In attempt to gain control of their vast money. (he was in debt).
But despite the mass arrests, the templar treasure was said to have set sail on board a ship, never to be seen again.
In any case, Phillip never got his hands on the vast majorty of it.

Friday the 13th to this day is considered unlucky.

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

The Church also hides it's plan for world domination, which includes the capture and slaughter of Mozambique.

[Ummon]

Da Vinci depicts Jesus in two forms, one male and one female/androgynous, just like the Gioconda is his self-portrait in female form. Infact if you look, the coulours of the vest are the same, specularly painted.

An allusion to Leonardo's homosexuality, gnostic heresies, and too many other things to be mentioned here.

[Mangalore]

"Is this a man or a woman. And if it is indeed a woman, who is she and what connection with Christ did she have? "

How about Maria Magdalena?

For the Templars, they had more lands than most kings which is a very simple reason why they were hated by most as in the eyes of the kings they stole their land and submitted themselves to none. For the same reason a pope might get a little worried.

[Pallida Mors]

"Is this a man or a woman. And if it is indeed a woman, who is she and what connection with Christ did she have?

Who are the Freemasons? What do they really do in secrecy? Away from the prying eyes of the public. Are they really the Templars? Operating in secret to this day. And if they are in fact, the Templar Order revived, what secret is hidden beneath Rosslyn Chapel?

What is the Holy Grail, is it a cup or something else? If it is a person, a person who carried the Blood of Christ within them. If that is so, is it not possible that descendants of Him could be walking amongst us right now. It could very well be me. Or Adnin, or Sib. Or (Heaven Forbid) Drak.

What Secret is held within the Vatican?"


All things that have happen during the middle ages. Chirstian mythos. The painting is obviously someones interpretation done many years after the fact not only because of the style, but that all the people are white. Does anyone still think Jesus was pure white with blue eyes and blonde hair?

[Legiondude]

"Is this a man or a woman. And if it is indeed a woman, who is she and what connection with Christ did she have?

Who are the Freemasons? What do they really do in secrecy? Away from the prying eyes of the public. Are they really the Templars? Operating in secret to this day. And if they are in fact, the Templar Order revived, what secret is hidden beneath Rosslyn Chapel?

What is the Holy Grail, is it a cup or something else? If it is a person, a person who carried the Blood of Christ within them. If that is so, is it not possible that descendants of Him could be walking amongst us right now. It could very well be me. Or Adnin, or Sib. Or (Heaven Forbid) Drak.

What Secret is held within the Vatican?"


All things that have happen during the middle ages. Chirstian mythos. The painting is obviously someones interpretation done many years after the fact not only because of the style, but that all the people are white. Does anyone still think Jesus was pure white with blue eyes and blonde hair?

I see you to have noticed that, well, I belive that most Christians would have an issue with the son of God looking like a Arab/Jew something that he was, he certanly did not have blond hair nor blue eyes, and most likley had black curley hair, the darkest eyes one could find, and in general, look like the avrege dude from the place he was born, the MIddle east...

If Jesus had been waiting in line to get on a plane in america today, he would have been held back at the security, and searched, and then asked if he was a terrorist.....

I read this book once, where Jesus comes to Christian present day Europe, and most of the Christians are racist against him, calling him ******, arab, etc....


It's funny that the people of a religion that is based on Jesus are today, most racist against people that look like Jesus most probabley looked....

[Pallida Mors]

"It's funny that the people of a religion that is based on Jesus are today, most racist against people that look like Jesus most probabley looked.... "

The ignorance of the masses...... I think people want to think of their God in their image.

[Kino]

Deleted by user.

[Veresov]

I've been thinking. What secrets does the Church withhold from the public? Take the Knights Templar, a massively successful and trusted Crusading Order, The Grand Master of the Templars answered only to the Papal Throne, they were loyal, powerful and fought fiercely for the Catholic Church wherever they went. Until they were brutally wiped out by Philip, King of France whose Inquistitions of the Templars was endorsed by the Church that the Templars had served so loyally. What sort of secret did the Templars unearth that would motivate such a quick and brutal destruction? A secret so powerful that it would rock the very foundations of the Roman Catholic Church and the Royalty of Europe?

Here's something to ponder:

Is this a man or a woman. And if it is indeed a woman, who is she and what connection with Christ did she have?

Who are the Freemasons? What do they really do in secrecy? Away from the prying eyes of the public. Are they really the Templars? Operating in secret to this day. And if they are in fact, the Templar Order revived, what secret is hidden beneath Rosslyn Chapel?

What is the Holy Grail, is it a cup or something else? If it is a person, a person who carried the Blood of Christ within them. If that is so, is it not possible that descendants of Him could be walking amongst us right now. It could very well be me. Or Adnin, or Sib. Or (Heaven Forbid) Drak.

What Secret is held within the Vatican?

You have been reading too many conspiracy theories. The Church is there to serve Christ and the body of Christ (believers). This is a full time responsibility.

[Eric]

Well then, perhaps serving the Believers of Christ means keeping a secret from them. A secret so powerful it would devastate everything they ever knew about Christianity and Catholicism.

[Kanaric]

Idk, anything is possible with the church. They have been the masters of manipulation since its foundation and no doubt have at least some secrets. However I suspect that most secrets are only known by the dead.

edit: the dead as in past church members, not people who were killed by them, lol. Like Emperor Constantine..... for one, when they chose what gospels to use in the bible.

[GambleFish]

Da Vinci code eh?

Do some google research. And don't let TG see this thread, lol.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Da Vinci code eh?

Yep. Here we go again ...

Do some google research. And don't let TG see this thread, lol.

Too late!

I've been thinking. What secrets does the Church withhold from the public? Take the Knights Templar, a massively successful and trusted Crusading Order, The Grand Master of the Templars answered only to the Papal Throne, they were loyal, powerful and fought fiercely for the Catholic Church wherever they went. Until they were brutally wiped out by Philip, King of France whose Inquistitions of the Templars was endorsed by the Church that the Templars had served so loyally.

Pope Clement actually did everything in his rather limited power to curb the suppression of the Templars; at least everything he could do without annoying the King Philip of France and getting himself deposed, imprisoned and murdered, which is what happened to his two prececessors when they ran afoul of Philip.

Clement was a lame duck Pope under the total political domination of the French throne. Despite this, while he reluctantly dissolved the Order in 1312, he managed to limit the executions of the Templars to France alone. Dan Brown paints a fantasy scenario whereby the Pope initiated the suppression of the Order, instructed his 'armies' (?? what 'armies') to arrest the Templars, claimed to have had a vision from God regarding the Templars' heresies, executed almost all the Knights and threw their ashes into the Tiber.

This is all total nonsense. There was no claims about a 'vision from God', the Pope had no 'armies', the arrests were made purely by King Philip, without Clement's knowledge, no Templars were executed outside France (and Cyprus) and the Pope lived in Avignon, not Rome, so no ashes were thrown in the Tiber. Dan Brown is a good marketer, a bad writer and an absolutely appalling historian.

What sort of secret did the Templars unearth that would motivate such a quick and brutal destruction? A secret so powerful that it would rock the very foundations of the Roman Catholic Church and the Royalty of Europe?

There is zero evidence that the destruction of the Order was anything to do with any 'secret'. The evidence clearly indicates that the Order was rich and that King Philip destoyed it as a way of wiping out the massive debts he owed to the Templars' as a banking organisation. Philip had used the same tactics against the Jews and the Lombard bankers - he expelled them from France, seized their assets and cancelled all debts to them (including, of course, his own). This was his motivation for the suppression of the Order - not any 'secret'.

Here's something to ponder:

Is this a man or a woman.

It's neither - it's a youth: John.

John was traditionally painted as a very young man, a teenager or sometimes even as a child because of a tradition that he was the youngest of the disciples. While the depiction of John here looks feminine to modern eyes, may of Leonardo's depictions of young men were very feminine-looking: probably because Leonardo was almost certainly homosexual. His painting of John the Baptist, for example, is another depiction of a young man who looks, to us, distinctly female.

We have clear evidence that the figure to Jesus' right is definitely the disciple John. Firstly, John was always painted as sitting to Jesus' right, because that's where the gospel accounts of the Last Supper said he was sitting. Secondly, the account of the Supper in John's Gospel says that at the moment the painting is depicting - when Jesus had just announced that one of the disciples was going to betray him - Peter leaned forward and asked John to ask Jesus which disciple would do this. This is precisely what Leonardo depicts in the painting: Peter is leaning forward, touching John on the shoulder and pointing towards Jesus. John is leaning back and listening to what Peter is asking.

Thirdly, and most importantly, we have the preliminary sketches Leonardo drew when planning the painting. They include the John figure, in precisely the pose we find in the painting, with the name 'JOHN' written above it in Leonado's own handwriting. There is no doubt that this figure is not some woman - it's definitely John.

And if it is indeed a woman, who is she and what connection with Christ did she have?

See above. Dan Brown lifted the whole kooky conspiracy theory about the figure being Mary Magdalene from Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince's 1997 book The Templar Revelation. And they were building on the equally kooky theories of Baigent, Leigh and Lincoln's 1982 Holy Blood Holy Grail. Picknett and Prince accept Baigent et al's claim that Leonardo was a 'Grand Master' of the secret 'Priory of Sion' which had inherited the secret knowledge of Jesus and Mary's marriage and bloodline from the Templars and have preserved it to this day. They, and Brown, argue that Leonardo 'encoded' this secret in his The Last Supper.

Which sounds great, until you do a quick bit of research on the so-called 'Priory of Sion'. Far from being some secret ancient organisation at war with the Church, it was actually a crude hoax cooked up in the 1960s by Pierre Plantard - a Nazi sympathiser, convicted fraud and all round nutcase who spent decades trying to convince people he was the real heir to the French throne.

With the help of an accomplice, Phillipe de Cherisey, Plantard faked some documents which outlined this fictional 'Priory' and supported his claim to the throne. They then deposited these fake documents - the so-called 'Dossiers Secrets' - in the Bibliothèque Nationale in Paris for them to later 'discover' to bolster Plantard's weird claims. Unfortunately for Plantard, De Cherisey soon revealed that the documents were fake and the whole thing was a hoax. Another researcher found that a genealogy in one of the 'medieval' documents had actually been copied directly from an article in a popular French history magazine, complete with several telling errors. Plantard tried to maintain and periodically revive the hoax, but eventually admitted (in court and under oath) that he'd made the whole thing up.

So there was no 'Priory of Sion', Leonardo couldn't have been a member of this totally non-existant organisation and there are no 'Priory' secrets encoded in The Last Supper.

Who are the Freemasons?

A men's club.

What do they really do in secrecy? Away from the prying eyes of the public.

Act out some silly ceremonies.

Are they really the Templars? Operating in secret to this day. And if they are in fact, the Templar Order revived,

No, they aren't. Like the may othe esoteric men's clubs that arose in the Eighteeth Century, the early Masons like to indulge in historical fantasies which linked their orders to ancient Egypt, the architects of Solomon's Temple and the Knights Templar. None of these claims have the slightest historical credibility. Peter Partner details how these fantasies arose and how they developed in his book The Templars and their Myth - an exhaustive and well-researched antidote to whacko conspiracy theories about the Masons and their supposed links to the Templars.

what secret is hidden beneath Rosslyn Chapel?

Dirt.

What is the Holy Grail, is it a cup or something else? If it is a person, a person who carried the Blood of Christ within them. If that is so, is it not possible that descendants of Him could be walking amongst us right now. It could very well be me. Or Adnin, or Sib. Or (Heaven Forbid) Drak.

The whole idea of a 'holy bloodline' being the 'real' meaning of the medieval fantasy stories about the 'Holy Grail' was invented by Baigent, Leigh and Lincoln in 1982. It was based squarely on Pierre Plantard's idiotic 'Priory' hoax and - since the 'Prioy' was fake - it has no credibility at all. Even Plantard himself comprehensively rejected it.

What Secret is held within the Vatican?

Conspiracy theorists like to wibble about dark secrets hidden in the Vatican, which they imagine are preserved in the 'Secret Vatican Archives'. There is zero evidence that anything of the sort is hidden in the Archives. They are 'secret' in the Italian sense of the word: 'closed' and 'secure'. Far from being some dank chambers holding vast, ancient, forbidden knowledge, they have little in them which pre-dates the Thirteenth Century and most of the millions of documents in them are rather boring administrative materials of little interest to anyone.

Yeah, I did read the Da Vinci Code which got me thinking. I asked my priest about it and he started getting all hush hush, refusing all questions and telling me that following that road only leads to grief and damnation.

It's a pity he didn't just suggest you go to Google and type in 'Pierre Plantard'.

Dan Brown may have stumbled upon something not meant to be known by the public. He published it as a fictional story in order to get the truth out. But maybe people haven't realized it yet.

All Dan Brown stumbled on was a way of selling a lot of copies of a low-grade, badly written, woefully researched, error-filled airport thriller.

Well then, perhaps serving the Believers of Christ means keeping a secret from them. A secret so powerful it would devastate everything they ever knew about Christianity and Catholicism.

Or perhaps they recognise a creaking conspiracy theory when they see it.

Like Emperor Constantine..... for one, when they chose what gospels to use in the bible.

Constanine had absolutely nothing to do with the choice of which gospels were scriptural and which weren't. That choice had been made 200 years before he was even born.

I thought the Da Vinci Code upset them because, to them, the idea that Jesus might of been married and might of had a child is blasphemous.

No, it upsets them because the idea that Jesus might have married etc is not supported by any evidence at all.

It's totally obvious that Jesus would have screwed Mary, there wasnt anything against it at the time, it's not like the act of sex was bad or anything.

It was bad if you were a celibate Jewish holy man, which is what the actual evidence indicates Jesus was. Everything we know about Mary Magdalene could be written on the back of a small envelope, with room left over for a long shopping list. We know she was (i) one of several female followers of Jesus, (ii) helped support his group financially (and so was probably a relatively wealthy widow) and (iii) had been healed/exorcised by Jesus. That's it. There is no evidence they were married. None.

Never really grasp that if Da vinci code is fiction then why are they so upset about.

Because a lot of its readers think Dan Brown has presented reliable historical information instead of a grab-bag of errors, fantasies and kooky theories contradicted by the evidence.

Surely if it is all lies then they have nothing to fear yet they are trying their best to stop it.

All the Catholic Church has said on the matter is that the book's supposedly 'historical' information is bunk. Which it definitely is.

[Kanaric]

I wonder when people will realize that the Da Vinci Code is fiction that takes liberties on facts. The author used to say that, now he says its factual which is frankly BS.

Much of whats in their besides the basic "blood of chirst" stuff was ever a product of historical research by any person. Like that church in Scotland (i think, it was some place in the UK) that is a area in the book has nothing to do with reality.

[Removed_user_012521]

Yeah seriosly the Davince Cod is a bunch of BS and people think it raises all these questions but it really doesn't. Its nothing more that a little speculation.